What is a Christian nationalist?

[Boss Hogg 808]

This appears to be a relatively new term, at least to me. This lady acts like this stuff wasn't the basis of the Declaration of Independence. Am I a Christian Nationalist to believe there are natural rights not dependent on approval of the government?

 

 

 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11667]

Someone who rejects freedom of religion mostly.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23355]

 

[Huckleberry 32660]

5 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

This appears to be a relatively new term, at least to me. This lady acts like this stuff wasn't the basis of the Declaration of Independence. Am I a Christian Nationalist to believe there are natural rights not dependent on approval of the government?

 

 

 

You should try again after actually thinking about what you write.

For example, I believe in natural rights that do not require governmental authority, but I think the Christian religion is a fraud. So no, believing in natural rights doesn't make you a Christian nationalist because it doesn't even make you a Christian. 

[Boss Hogg 808]

3 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

You should try again after actually thinking about what you write.

For example, I believe in natural rights that do not require governmental authority, but I think the Christian religion is a fraud. So no, believing in natural rights doesn't make you a Christian nationalist because it doesn't even make you a Christian. 

As an atheist, do you believe that natural rights are not dependent on the government granting them?

 

 

Edited February 24 by Boss Hogg

[Huckleberry 32660]

Of course natural rights are not dependent on the government, that's what the term natural rights means. 

My view on any particular religion or even religion overall is irrelevant to that question. 

Edited February 24 by Huckleberry

[Dahobbs 17407]

3 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

As an atheist, do you believe that natural rights are not dependent on the government granting them?

 

 

Natural rights and legal rights are separate concepts. Legal rights may or may not recognize natural rights. Natural rights are not dependent upon the Christian God. 

[Boss Hogg 808]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

Of course natural rights are not dependent on the government, that's what the term natural rights means. 

What natural rights do you believe exist?

[Shaddie 1634]

A Christian nationalist is a person who doesn’t give 1 flying fuck about what would Jesus do. 

[Captainant 27250]

For the most part, Christian nationalists tend to lack the curiosity to look for themselves and prefer to be dictated to. 

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Christian-nationalism

 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Someone who's feelers are hurt because they feel like their previous privilege is being prejudiced against by progress and being usurped by others.

[Boss Hogg 808]

7 minutes ago, Shaddie said:

A Christian nationalist is a person who doesn’t give 1 flying fuck about what would Jesus do. 

That's a great CR definition but the chick I cited on msnbc that got no pushback says it's someone who agrees with the founding principles of our country. That's messed up to me. 

[Huckleberry 32660]

15 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

What natural rights do you believe exist?

Putting aside the breathtaking closed mindedness that you displayed by assuming the only alternative to being Christian is being an atheist, I'll play along. 

Natural rights (natural human rights since that's obviously what we're talking about):

Right to bodily security and autonomy (this includes the right to life because killing someone obviously violates it)

Right to privacy

Right to liberty

Those are the main ones off the top of my head and of course they're all interrelated. Comes down to you don't get to fuck with other people. These rights can be forfeited of course. If I kill someone then I have forfeited some or all of those rights, which ones and to what extent is another discussion. 

Edited February 24 by Huckleberry

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13530]

...the right to incrementally cede some of those individual rights for the benefits of living in a functional society.

[RDCanecutter 26198]

Anybody who listens to Lee Greenwood.

[hayden_horn 11358]

36 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

this is basically it 100%

 

[Dahobbs 17407]

18 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

That's a great CR definition but the chick I cited on msnbc that got no pushback says it's someone who agrees with the founding principles of our country. That's messed up to me. 

That's a partial clip of her explaining a significant portion of the belief system: laws don't matter except to the extent they coincide with their particular view of Christianity. It wasn't her providing an all encompassing definition. 

[Boss Hogg 808]

11 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

assuming the only alternative to being Christian is being an atheist

 

36 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

but I think the Christian religion is a fraud

Since you brought it up. I assumed you were an atheist to be so aggressively anti-Christian. I guess I didn't think you could adhere to another faith and be so antagonistic. 

[Dahobbs 17407]

1 minute ago, Boss Hogg said:

 

Since you brought it up. I assumed you were an atheist to be so aggressively anti-Christian. I guess I didn't think you could adhere to another faith and be so antagonistic. 

That's just your bigotry. 

[hayden_horn 11358]

2 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

 

Since you brought it up. I assumed you were an atheist to be so aggressively anti-Christian. I guess I didn't think you could adhere to another faith and be so antagonistic. 

since you brought it up i would say that yeah you are a christian nationalist to the point of excluding any other point of view

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13530]

53 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

Am I a Christian Nationalist to believe there are natural rights not dependent on approval of the government?

You're a Christian Nationalist if you believe you are entitled to the rights Tom Hanks had in Cast Away but uniquely exempt from the conditions. 

Edited February 24 by Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand

[DixonHur 11017]

It's actually pretty simple.  You are a Christian Nationalist if you believe the US is, or should be, a Christian Nation.

The Name out front shoulda told ya

[troph 24498]

The founding principles whether believed to be natural rights or god given rights have been well understood to be rights to life, liberty, privacy, and the pursuit of happiness which to me is a restatement of autonomy which is embodied by the notion of life, liberty and privacy. 
 

with the notable exception of poors, slaves and women, these freedoms applied to everyone. 
 

over time, these rights were expanded to include others, poors, slaves finally freed, then women.

then these rights were improved and perfected - some what - through legislation like the civil rights act.

throughout all of our history these rights had only been expanded with limited exceptions.

so natural or god ordained didn’t really matter, everyone benefited, some more than others, some sooner than others, but everyone benefited.

then Christian nationalism was born, and as they gain power the natural rights or god ordained rights - which ever you decide to call them - came under attack — FOR SOME - but not for all. Christian nationalists keep their rights, but women? No. Brown and Black folk? No. Queer folk? No. 
 

christian nationalists are not adhering to founding principles that as they evolved to include all, Christian nationalists want to return to a world where only white male christians can participate and enjoy those rights.

so god ordained or natural rights is not the distinction, who is entitled to these rights is the distinction. 
 

so before we celebrate the founding fathers, and claim Christian nationalists are the true Americans, let’s pause and remember the world they want to return to - the world of original inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is not the world we understand but one where the vast majority of people are legally excluded from enjoying those god ordained, natural and inalienable rights.

 

[Dahobbs 17407]

5 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

You're a Christian Nationalist if you believe you are entitled to the rights Tom Hanks had in Cast Away but uniquely exempt from the conditions. 

Wait, is leaving Boss Hogg on a deserted island an option? It seems like the ban would finally be effective. 

[CTC2 2719]

57 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

This appears to be a relatively new term, at least to me. This lady acts like this stuff wasn't the basis of the Declaration of Independence. Am I a Christian Nationalist to believe there are natural rights not dependent on approval of the government?

 

 

 

I have no fucking idea. But, if you are a Christian and you think you have some superior right to make non Christian’s live by your belief systems then yeah you probably are. 

[Hookah Horns 3057]

Think of a nazi that pretended to be religious and you're pretty much there. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13530]

1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

Wait, is leaving Boss Hogg on a deserted island an option? It seems like the ban would finally be effective. 

There's an overstock of freedom in Muleshoe, Texas, magabaggers. Why you moving here seems odd. 

[Pato del Muerto 52234]

16 minutes ago, Boss Hogg said:

 

Since you brought it up. I assumed you were an atheist to be so aggressively anti-Christian. I guess I didn't think you could adhere to another faith and be so antagonistic. 

Somehow you don’t know any Christians that are highly antagonistic of Islam or Judaism?

[Stilicho 1397]

This the new “just asking questions” thread?

[pacman 7282]

1 hour ago, Boss Hogg said:

Am I a Christian Nationalist to believe there are natural rights not dependent on approval of the government?

 

 

No, but that is not a proper representation of Christian Nationalist.

A Christian Nationalist only believes people who think and look like them have those rights. They are happy to remove natural rights for anybody different from them and are giddy to use the government to do it.

[hobbes2702 12769]

1 hour ago, Boss Hogg said:

As an atheist, do you believe that natural rights are not dependent on the government granting them?

 

 

Do you not know what the word “natural” means?

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2654]

the whole idea of rights that aren't enumerated are reserved to the people is turned on its head by Christian nationalists. See, e.g., Alito, Thomas: if shit wasn't spelled out in law upon the founding of the country, that right doesn't exist. It's always set up to perpetuate the benefit of the landowning males who were the only ones with rights in practice back then. Therefore, we look for a "right to abortion" spelled out instead of a right of adults to bodily autonomy via life/liberty/pursuit of happiness/due process. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13530]

If you were being led to your execution @Boss Hogg, and could only choose one, would you implore God to forgive your executioners, or would you implore your allies to seek violent retribution?

[dcbc 14367]

We were United Methodists until the Globals pushed us out.  Now, we are visiting Episcopalians with all sorts of people differently situated that we are in the mix.  I don't care what other people do and wish them all well.

[Dahobbs 17407]

2 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

If you were being led to your execution @Boss Hogg, and could only choose one, would you implore God to forgive your executioners, or would you implore your allies to seek violent retribution?

Why keep this theoretical? 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13530]

5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Why keep this theoretical? 

Baby steps and I'm honestly in the dark how this elephant in the room gets reconciled. There's no way my dumb ass is the first one to go "heeeyyy..." I just wanna hear one Christian Nationalist state while not in some throes of passion which would be his preferred option. Do you know the predominant/official stance of a Christian Nationalist in this hypothetical/historical situation? I don't. 

[David Dennison 18487]

All rights are man made. Full stop.

[hayden_horn 11358]

16 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

Baby steps and I'm honestly in the dark how this elephant in the room gets reconciled. There's no way my dumb ass is the first one to go "heeeyyy..." I just wanna hear one Christian Nationalist state while not in some throes of passion which would be his preferred option. Do you know the predominant/official stance of a Christian Nationalist in this hypothetical/historical situation? I don't. 

well generally just start with whichever is the most cruel amd go with that

it's a religion built on torture porn

[DigglerontheHoof 20963]

2 hours ago, Boss Hogg said:

This appears to be a relatively new term, at least to me. This lady acts like this stuff wasn't the basis of the Declaration of Independence. Am I a Christian Nationalist to believe there are natural rights not dependent on approval of the government?

 

 

 

Check a mirror.

[hayden_horn 11358]

also if you consider yourself actually Christian then you might want to rethink the whole nationalist part of the equation.

it's a fucking contradiction in terms

[956 Worldwide 34241]

This is almost accidentally a good thread. I kind of struggle to get my arms around the concept myself, not least because the faith traditions this movement springs from tend to be pretty unruly and “democratic” themselves. There’s no pope of American Conservative Protestantism who can give me the definitive skinny.  
 

I think at a minimum “Christian nationalism” holds that the secular authority in the United States is only legitimate so long as it is advancing (or at least not at odds with) the social practice of Christianity as understood by conservative Protestants.  I think that it holds that any rights are endowed not by a “Creator” (which could be nature or reason or God or other interpretations) but instead by the Christian God AND such rights are properly meant to be understood as given in order to advance that God’s commands. And I think at the more extreme ends, it holds that the exercise of those rights in opposition to “God’s Will” is an illegitimate use of those rights, in other words “you have the right to do the things He wants.” And I also think at a minimum that a Christian nationalist believes that in some way the secular authority must make clear that it derives legitimacy from the Christian God and no other, and that while the practice of other faiths (or no faith) may be tolerated and allowed, the secular authority privileges the exercise of conservative Protestantism. 
 

One reason this is is interesting and fascinating is that the struggle between the role of the secular and religious authorities and where one stops and the other begins is unique to Christian and post-Christian societies, at least when it comes to the big monotheisms.  A unified temporal and religious government is baked into the cake for Islam or Judaism and purely secular governance arose as a concept only after encounters with the West. This is not at all the case and never has been because of how Christianity developed and spread and so has been one of the major bones of contention.  Aside from some of the Papal States or territories controlled by religious orders, full-fledged theocracy has never been a thing; our societies have been trying to sort out where the authorities stop and start since Constantine. 
 

Then when you add into this the fact that our American Christian nationalism was born from faith traditions that have their origin in a rejection of a blended or synchronized secular and religious power— things get super fucking weird. 

[achooloco 1060]

A racist piece of shit but hey, you got a right to eek out an existence too. I don’t hate you but I do pity your fucking stupidity 

[Cairn Horn88 8135]

A true Christian cannot be a Christian nationalist.

[atomheartbevo 89304]

2 hours ago, pacman said:

A Christian Nationalist only believes people who think and look like them have those rights. They are happy to remove natural rights for anybody different from them and are giddy to use the government to do it.

I’ve seen a few self-identifying Christian Nationalists who tried to compare themselves to the Pilgrims, not realizing that they have more in common with the people who drove the Pilgrims out of England and (and somewhat Holland).   It’s also not hard to find them on social media leaning into racism in some manner, even if it’s simply retweeting a racist.

 

[Cairn Horn88 8135]

Christian nationalism tends to treat other Americans as second-class citizens. If it were fully implemented, it would not respect the full religious liberty of all Americans. Empowering the state through “morals legislation” to regulate conduct always carries the risk of overreaching, setting a bad precedent, and creating governing powers that could be used later be used against Christians. Additionally, Christian nationalism is an ideology held overwhelmingly by white Americans, and it thus tends to exacerbate racial and ethnic cleavages. In recent years, the movement has grown increasingly characterized by fear and by a belief that Christians are victims of persecution. Some are beginning to argue that American Christians need to prepare to fight, physically, to preserve America’s identity, an argument that played into the January 6 riot.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2021/february-web-only/what-is-christian-nationalism.html
 

 

[HenryJames 65848]

A just asking questions thread from 52nd username guy. Surely we won’t fall for it again.

[DixonHur 11017]

7 hours ago, David Dennison said:

All rights are man made. Full stop.

I believe what you meant to say is that all rights were usurped by man.

Natural rights exist but in the modern world you'd have to live way off the grid to enjoy them.

[Hermanator 6863]

This is just white fascist America's version of Islamic extremism. Nothing more. A domestic terrorist organization. 

[formermav43 4599]

If you can stand a little theological discussion, here’s a pretty good article critical of the concept from the evangelical historian Thomas Kidd. And if you don’t want to read it, his short definition is similar to what 956 said above: “an understanding of American identity and significance held by Christians wherein the nation is a central actor in the world-historical purposes of the Christian God.“

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/christian-nationalism-patriotism/?amp

[Neonmoon 38127]

Christian Nationalism isn’t a new term.

https://samilhistory.com/tag/christian-nationalism/

It’s always been a white supremacy costume.