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The Leopards Eating Faces and Unlubed Dildo of Consequences Thread


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Posted
38 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

So how does that contradict what @BrickHorn said?

I agree.  When I helped take a company public there were all kinds of "how do you look in stripes" warnings, but I certainly don't ever recall being informed about any legal requirement to place shareholder value above all else.  

I don't think it does, we're in agreement.

I didn't tag Captainant to antagonize him, but the quote was a perfect example of an executive using fiduciary duty as an excuse for layoffs.  Friedman Doctrine might require such a thing, fiduciary duty does not.

Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Friedman Doctrine might require such a thing, fiduciary duty does not.

Neither requires it. However, that executive from the article *may* have a fiduciary duty to reduce costs. Or not. It depends on their situation.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Never mind the possiblity of the wrong people getting laid off.  (Ahem.)

I’ve had to figure out who got laid off twice in my career. It’s unpleasant work. I would love to say the exercise involves matching the skills the company needs to the go-forward strategy, but it’s usually just determined by where people wind up on a spreadsheet. 

 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
Posted
1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

How does it necessarily satisfy fiduciary responsibility to let people leave and their training and institutional knowledge leave with them, not to mention any compensation paid out?  
 

especially if you think you will need to rehire after things turn around.  Seems like it could be the opposite some occasions. 
 

a place known for not laying off as a matter of course also will probably get a better candidate pool when they do hire. 

In short, it doesn't.  The fiduciary duty of corporate officers and directors has existed as long as corporations have existed.

The fiduciary duty permits consideration of interests other than the immediate share price/book value/earnings-profit of the corporation.

That little bastard Milton Friedman proposed in 1970 that corporate governance should consider nothing other than profit and return to shareholders.  That's never been the law, but it has been a canon of business ethics for a good long while, to our great detriment.  This is known as the Friedman Doctrine, or shareholder doctrine, as opposed to the broader "stakeholder doctrine," which explicitly considers the interests of others as part of the broader interests of the corporation.

Also, regarding Wisconsin Aluminum Foundry:

And, in 2019, Sachin Shivaram brings his vision for growth to WAF as the first non-family CEO of the family-owned company.

Likely all Trump voters, wildcat's petit bourgeouisie.

 

Posted
29 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I’ve had to figure out who got laid off twice in my career. It’s unpleasant work. I would love to say the exercise involves matching the skills the company needs to the go-forward strategy, but it’s usually just determined by where people wind up on a spreadsheet. 

 

In this particular case its simple.  You wore Trump gear when I brought President Biden to the plant, you are first to get fired when Trump’s policies warrant layoffs.  Easy peasy.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Neither requires it. However, that executive from the article *may* have a fiduciary duty to reduce costs. Or not. It depends on their situation.

 

absent something where the cost is paying a bunch of your family members who don't work there exorbitant salaries, which no one would call "reducing cost", no, that's not how fiduciary duties work.

Edited by elfenix
Posted

After Texas panhandle congressman Jodey Arrington shepherded the big beautiful bill through congress, many of the 30 rural hospitals in his extremely Republican district are facing huge financial issues. I wonder how many will close. 

https://www.texasobserver.org/jodey-arrington-obbba-cuts-west-texas-rural-hospitals/?goal=0_975e2d1fa1-86132abb6e-34961614&mc_cid=86132abb6e&mc_eid=62883d93bc

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Posted
7 hours ago, elfenix said:

 

absent something where the cost is paying a bunch of your family members who don't work there exorbitant salaries, which no one would call "reducing cost", no, that's not how fiduciary duties work.

Yeah, there's a great deal of confusion between the business "ethic" (ha) of shareholder primacy and fiduciary duty.  

So much so that greedhead corporate lawyers like Marty Lipton and Skadden have to write articles reminding people that Friedman Doctrine isn't the law and that even "public benefit" corporations don't need a special statute (although there is one in Delaware and elsewhere).  https://www.skadden.com/insights/publications/2019/08/putting-to-rest-the-debate https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2024/05/07/stakeholder-governance-and-the-eclipse-of-shareholder-primacy/

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Posted
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, there's a great deal of confusion between the business "ethic" (ha) of shareholder primacy and fiduciary duty.  

So much so that greedhead corporate lawyers like Marty Lipton and Skadden have to write articles reminding people that Friedman Doctrine isn't the law and that even "public benefit" corporations don't need a special statute (although there is one in Delaware and elsewhere).  https://www.skadden.com/insights/publications/2019/08/putting-to-rest-the-debate https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2024/05/07/stakeholder-governance-and-the-eclipse-of-shareholder-primacy/

It's what's being taught in MBA courses around the country, and has been for decades. Shareholders and investors are more important than anything else, and if you disagree then fuck you you're fired. 

Posted
1 hour ago, Captainant said:

It's what's being taught in MBA courses around the country, and has been for decades. Shareholders and investors are more important than anything else, and if you disagree then fuck you you're fired. 

Everything is so financially engineered it's impossible to figure out wtf a good business even is anymore 

Posted
1 hour ago, Captainant said:

It's what's being taught in MBA courses around the country, and has been for decades. Shareholders and investors are more important than anything else, and if you disagree then fuck you you're fired. 

Still not fiduciary duty.

Posted
8 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

After Texas panhandle congressman Jodey Arrington shepherded the big beautiful bill through congress, many of the 30 rural hospitals in his extremely Republican district are facing huge financial issues. I wonder how many will close. 

https://www.texasobserver.org/jodey-arrington-obbba-cuts-west-texas-rural-hospitals/?goal=0_975e2d1fa1-86132abb6e-34961614&mc_cid=86132abb6e&mc_eid=62883d93bc

They reelected that jackass congressman. They voted for Trump overwhelmingly. 
Project 2025 was out there for everyone to read.

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