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Posted
10 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

That is certainly going to have a chilling effect.

It is like suggesting defense attorneys are obstructing justice and enabling crime.

Or enabling fascism? 😬😬

Posted

so in all honestly @Anastasis, one of the primary reasons you get so much shit and get called out by everyone is because you have a pretty clear and constant pattern. i'd legitimately and objectively like to try to draw it out for you...

you regularly call posters out - rightly or wrongly - for getting outraged and ranting about issue X when they don't or didn't get equally outraged by issue Y, which in your mind should have been just if not more offending and enraging, and thus you deem them 'clowns' and basically worthy of your contempt. most of the examples i've noticed of you doing this have to do with foreign policy, military action, etc. you tend to throw that back at posters a lot - 'where were you when Y was happening, huh??' 

but...you basically do the same. i think you have gotten selective in the threads you participate in for this reason, and it's a pretty easy observation to see that while you may still feel strongly about about some issues you have gotten very...subdued is a good word, in your protestations or even vaguely mild criticisms of some of the same things that you have previously purported to have a principled stance on. due process (or the complete lack thereof rn) is an example that comes to mind here. or Israel/Gaza...Trump and Bibi have turned it to 11 and you're basically like 'oh well, Trump's genocide now'. or the absolutely stupid level of incompetence leading the DoD.

honestly i believe that's why you've garnered such vitriol and 'troll' like status from others...it comes across as not just hypocritical at this point in time, but also like you were never that principled to begin with and that most everything that is happening right now you are pretty a-okay with because you actually support pretty much all of it...but you don't want to actually be lumped in with idiot maga brigade because, well, they are idiots and you are not. you just agree that America needs to be torn down.

so anyways man, i've clearly spent too much time thinking about this lol. but sometimes @bolverk and his honest attempts to communicate with opposing viewpoints inspires me.

and TL/DR: every accusation is a confession. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, mchookem said:

and TL/DR: every accusation is a confession.

Appreciate the disclaimer. 

1 hour ago, mchookem said:

for getting outraged and ranting about issue X when they don't or didn't get equally outraged by issue Y, which in your mind should have been just if not more offending and enraging, and thus you deem them 'clowns' and basically worthy of your contempt. 

I don't think that is totally fair assessment and a bit of a strawman. But appreciate that that is what you perceive. I call the posters here clowns for a lot of (imo) well earned reasons. Just do a forum search on "clown" and look at the last pages of when I deployed it.  In reviewing the first few pages of results, none correspond to yourdescription and most actually refer to calling the neocons in both the Biden and Trump administration clowns. The ones directed at other posters here is cause they were acting like clowns and didn't have anything to do with any sort of outrage equivalency assessment. I think that that assessment is influenced by projection. The politics board is a clown show and has been for some time. I mean maybe always was, but certainly accelerated in the late Obama, Trump, and Biden eras. A long time ago a from to time to time wise poster observed that the fundamental problem with the CR is that the discussion here devolves into strawman argumentation. He now wallows in it himself. Pretty emblematic imo. 

 

1 hour ago, mchookem said:

but...you basically do the same. i think you have gotten selective in the threads you participate in for this reason, and it's a pretty easy observation to see that while you may still feel strongly about about some issues you have gotten very...subdued is a good word, in your protestations or even vaguely mild criticisms of some of the same things that you have previously purported to have a principled stance on. due process (or the complete lack thereof rn) is an example that comes to mind here. or Israel/Gaza...Trump and Bibi have turned it to 11 and you're basically like 'oh well, Trump's genocide now'. or the absolutely stupid level of incompetence leading the DoD.

 

American policy wrt Israel? I have been beating that drum for over 20 years in this community. It's just now turned to 11 for you?  I mean I guess that's a take. I'll try to do better though. I was watching a video this morning of a young girl in a gaza, maybe 14ish by appearance, squirting brain matter out her head and somewhat still conscious for a moment. I'll be sure to post more of those videos so we all know what keeps the juice running for the american defense base. I'll try to do a couple a day. I must admit, I do miss me some vampire matt miller at the podium though. 

If as on this thread, you want to talk about the execution of federal and many other search warrants. Shit, been there to. ICE ain't the real problem, it's just an example of the problem, ane one that creates greater outrage at this particular moment in this particular forum. That OK situation looks like a very very common one where the intended targets where not at the location and the police come in banging and treating everyone like shit. It's been happening every year for what, decades now? If it was a sign of the fascist overtake of this country, that boat sailed a long time ago. Qualified immunity is and long has been (just) one of the real problems, imo.

Immigration broadly? Shit. Discussions that have been had numerous times here and positions laid out. We need a policy that allows for the streamlined and efficient processing and vetting of people that want to come to work in this country. I don't care if they are from Mexico or India or where ever. A lot of my thinking on the immigration issue, in particular recently, has been influenced recently by some of my colleagues and their own experiences. That whole system is fucked up, but I see the lengths that people have to go to play by the rules. And the sacrifices they have to make to do so. So my take on that one today, people need to play by the rules and the system needs major reform. I don't go into another country without following the rules, the people I work with don't, and I would hope that we could expect the same of others. If you are not playing by the rules, you should be sent home. I'd like that to be done with due process and some fucking modicum of compassion, but also understand that in the current environment we are in a pendulum swing. 

1 hour ago, mchookem said:

honestly i believe that's why you've garnered such vitriol and 'troll' like status from others...it comes across as not just hypocritical at this point in time it comes across as not just hypocritical at this point in time, but also like you were never that principled to begin with and that most everything that is happening right now you are pretty a-okay with because you actually support pretty much all of it

Disagree with this very much so. I never really took any major flack on these boards until I pretty consistently starting pointing some of the very absurd aspects of the Trump-Russia conspiracy theories that got wild traction here. Particularly the Steele Dossier absurdities (Dead On Ballz Accurate in the parlance of some posters here), and the totally inappropriate use of the unconstitutional American surveillance system to target politicians (thanks IG for that report, that was fun). That's really the root of most of it. Disco alluded to it in his post here or on the other thread. 

 

Edited by Anastasis
Posted

well, okay man. i tried, just giving you an observational perspective, but admittedly i don't stalk you thread to thread like some. my observation has been you throw the word 'clown' around in pretty much every post nowadays. which, fine, you've given your reason, but it's basically a meme now (as seen in several other threads just today lol).

i used Israel as an example not bc it's an issue that's 'gone to 11' in my view, but bc i previously recalled active and emotional discussion in the prior year especially (post 10/7)...but your participation seemed to just fizzle post-'let's make Gaza the new Atlantic City!', your last comment was many weeks ago and was pretty much exactly what i quoted. having said that, maybe you just gave up actually arguing, which might be understandable. but it was noticeable, if not intentional, which is what has informed my perspective. anyways, pretty sure death porn violates surly rules, and is not really relevant to the point im making. 

you're not off on the general abuses of law enforcement, authoritarianism, etc., or really immigration in general...but come on man, we have absolutely gone off the rails, and at the highest levels of our government! im sorry but there's at a minimum a difference in scale between (example) Acevedo's no-knock warrant fiascos* and the fucking PRESIDENT throwing all due process out the window and literally shipping people off to torture prisons in a foreign country. like, come on. 

more often than not (especially in 'recent months', which is why it's stood out given current events) you've chosen snide condescension and minimalization in response to expressions of genuine fear, outrage, and absolute horror at what has been happening. again, my observational perspective.

but...maybe you've just decided nothing matters and gave up trying to articulate any points, certainly plenty here have. kind of an understandable response to the firehose of evil, mendacity and cruelty we've been subjected to nonstop for months now. i purposely and arbitrarily limit my own capacity for outrage engagement just for my own mental/emotional health. and i barely paid attention to the Steele dossier...but i do agree with the sentiment that it would be difficult to say what a Russian asset/agent would be doing differently right now to destroy the essence of American democracy 🤨

 

 

*sidenote for anybody that remembers the story of our best friends subjected to one of Acevedo's 'raid before dawn' no-knock warrants in Crestview that resulted in a cop getting shot and our friends high-schooler being sentenced to 13 years...he was just paroled about two weeks ago! 👍

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Posted
18 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

No it's not.  It is:

1) the new normal

2) acceptable - even exciting - to the MAGAs (the crushing of all civil liberties tells you the Regime is truly making America Great Again)

3) acceptable - even exciting - for every single person who used to claim to be "libertarian" and was worried about an "overreaching federal government."

 

This is exactly what we wanted, exactly what we voted for, and it's going exactly as promised.  If you don't like it, you are an enemy of the Regime, and you best watch yourself.  And don't even think of hiring an attorney....the Regime will go after him, too.

 

18 hours ago, Gap03 said:

Gotta break a few eggs, etc.  Think you're gonna sue them?  Let me introduce you to their defense team from Latham, Skadden, K&E, etc., who when armed with the already absurd qualified immunity doctrine are going to be able to make sure there is never legal recourse for anyone at ICE, Border Patrol, US Marshal Service or FBI for any of this shit.  I mean, this is exactly what we're looking for -  tenacious law enforcement officers - right???

 

 

10 hours ago, Satchel said:

We can no longer afford to have any kind of normalcy bias when we can see in real time how Trump’s goons are terrorizing American citizens with impunity. Tonight, Rachel reported that US Marshals and the FBI are claiming not to have had agents on the premises, even though the women who was terrorized, said some were wearing US Marshals, FBI and ICE branded attire. There’s no immediate relief for this family since the US government claims to know nothing about nothing. They have no money to feed their children because some unknown persons took every penny they had. 
 

This shit is happening in America to Americans.

The above 3 quotes are in reference to the fed agents' raid in OKC and I agree with the sentiment that we can expect more of this. Whether or not we will see or hear of this in the future is going to get interesting. The feds are taking the phones with them, and as we know, the cell phone and it's ability to video has been an occasional governor to the actions of the police state. As this regime wants to empower the ability of local, county, and state officials, who rarely violate civil rights ( 🙄 ), being unleashed to grab people and possessions, it will finally garner those local officers the "respect" they believe they deserve. (If you've ever watched the YT channels of the civil rights attorneys who discuss violations and retaliations by officers, one can quickly see that 'feeling disrespected' drives a lot of bad officer behavior.) However, now the thing (cameras) that is holding the behavior somewhat in check is in the hands of the one who wielded the stick. The media is not completely neutered (yet) but w/o video it is a helluva lot easier to dispute claims. It won't matter if it is mistaken identity or you don't look like me, or you're not from around here are you, or anything other reason capricious or truly illegal -- the government has provided them the protection and they serve them, not you. That's the protect and serve part and what it really means in a regime that is not a democracy.

Heaven help the family that has weapons. Odds are they will all be killed, adults and children alike, and no govt official will ever be punished. (thanks SCOTUS). Think about it for a minute. This woman probably had identification and other ways those 20 (TWENTY!!!!) officers could check authenticity either before or after the warrant was served and they didn't bother because she and hers don't matter. Do any lives matter?

Don't answer that.

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Posted

It won't be long before a household or even a neighborhood fights back because what do they have to lose? 

Their lives? What's a life worth when everything is taken and you're treated like a peasant with no rights.

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Posted

well...here in Denver we did have the old white lady heckling ICE agents raiding an apartment complex from across the street: "what's wrong with you losers?? get out of our community! get a real job!! your mom is ashamed of you!!"

which was pretty pointless but i appreciated it nonetheless. 

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