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Posted

Also, re: this bit from theUSA Today article:

Quote

In an afternoon news conference, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott confirmed the fatalities and said 161 people are known to be missing in Kerr County alone. That second figure is much larger than previously believed.

I don't know why that figure surprises anyone. I said from the beginning that they would soon find out that there were a large number of people missing that they didn't even know were missing yet. With so many people being there for July 4 and the water coming in the middle of the night, it was always going to be in the hundreds. Worst case scenario.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, wood said:

Also, re: this bit from theUSA Today article:

I don't know why that figure surprises anyone. I said from the beginning that they would soon find out that there were a large number of people missing that they didn't even know were missing yet. With so many people being there for July 4 and the water coming in the middle of the night, it was always going to be in the hundreds. Worst case scenario.

[County]Well, I'm sure the local taxpayers were all fine and knew what to do. Fuck them tourists! [/commissioner]

Edited by Captainant
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Posted
5 hours ago, Wally Pryor said:

So comical but yet so very sad.

Come on, man. Really?  Dear fucking lord. 


So here's the thing about us being to blame for dead little girls because air horns are expensive. You see in Texas we love football.


TOO GREAT! 

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Posted

That Abbott speech is going to be lampooned for years as it should be. Hell, Jon Stewart & the Daily Show writers could do 5 easy minutes on "Texans love football" and contrast how easily voters will approve multi-million dollar HS football stadiums all across the state, but a $900k investment in warning sirens is too expensive or worrisome due to false alarms. What a fucking unfunny joke we are to allow this type of "leadership" to represent us.

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Posted

Goddammit that Abbott "let me tell you something about Texas" was as cringe worthy as bro country lyrics thinking they're introducing the rest of the country to their love of gravel roads and church on Sunday, as if it's not a cliche. 

"Oh. Texans like football. I did not know that!"

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Posted
On 7/7/2025 at 1:38 PM, TreatyOak said:

I agree with these posts 100% that the camp is greatly to blame. The county bears plenty responsibility, but when your business is entrusted with the lives of hundreds of children and teens, you have better have a fucking good system in place to anticipate danger and protect lives. The Hill Country is well know to have a high level of flash floods. They should have been monitoring all the news and the 1PM Thursday weather warning should have been enough for them to take action. Perhaps they could have had their OWN audio warning system and escape procedures in place. And if, as people are claiming, they didn't get any warnings due to the bad cell service, that is 100% on them. Like I wrote about last summer, my friend's daughter's camp was evacuated a day in advance of a storm.   

Yes, from what I have read the camps were responsible for having their own plans.  That's ridiculous, because it's akin to each student writing their own test questions.  How do you judge the strength of a plan without a standard to hold it to?   Just more passing responsibility along.  

On 7/7/2025 at 8:24 PM, Chopper said:

This was mentioned in part upthread, so credit to that person

image.thumb.png.ddfe866ae6eb4a7ea4d06ed1c272e46d.png

 

image.png.06cd759bfe67252c4969c38ccfeb2420.png

 

https://www.hccommunityjournal.com/article_fd3f3e9c-3eb8-11ef-9bb2-b32dd8fc6b3d.html

 

Having served as a first responder in rural Texas I have to say the radio communications suck in most counties, particularly ones with hills or mountains.   Then add in that the government about 20 years ago sold off a huge chunk of bandwidth of our airwaves to private vendors like cell phone companies.  That forced departments to start moving away from analog radios to digital systems, which are way more expensive.  So I really can't fault them for going that route.  Where I can fault them is for not upgrading their flood warning system earlier when they had the chance for Obama money.  

On 7/8/2025 at 6:09 AM, Blotto said:

The Internet broke this country. "Oh, I see you are interested in loony f'n conspiracy theories ....let me serve you hundreds more so you click and make me rich"

I disagee, stupidity and complacency broke it.   The internet sped it up.

22 hours ago, South Austin said:

This needs to be a front-page article.  I mean, what the ever living fuck?  A city manager going on a run during a flash flood warning?

Yep, you'd think he'd tell himself first thing to call the guy in charge of monitoring to get some idea on what's headed their way?

11 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'm curious about how this site makes money (besides donations).  Does post count ratchet the $?

If so, it seems to me that a consolidated DT/CR would be ideal.  Call it "Lord Of The Flies".  

Please no.  I avoid DT like I avoid FB these days.  To go in there does me no good.   

8 hours ago, Da Fino said:

The idiots at texags are pissed that this is being politicized. I haven’t seen many people politicizing this issue as much as it should be. I’m honestly shocked that this and the Epstein dismissal aren’t being politicized more than they are. 

To me this makes me think of roaches scrurrying about in the middle of the night when the kitchen light comes on.  Can hear them screaming "Politicization!  Politicization!"  Or however the fuck you spell it.  

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Posted
7 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

To me this makes me think of roaches scrurrying about in the middle of the night when the kitchen light comes on.  Can hear them screaming "Politicization!  Politicization!"  Or however the fuck you spell it.  

The imma crash out last night was legendary. Facts are political on Surly now. Or at least, facts that make conservatives no longer comfortable with keeping their heads happily in the sand are political.

He claims to not dictate conversation, and here he is again building a fucking safe space so they can avoid the ugly truth of how badly their history of (R) votes failed hundreds of Texans on July 4th weekend in Kerrville.

Fucking ridiculous that facts and investigative reporting are considered CR by the aggy in chief. It's giving cover to "it could have been worse" and preemptively justifying doing nothing to prevent future deaths.

 

But goddamnit, they can post as much racist hate filled immigrants ragebait as they want in DT!

Posted (edited)

Really don't think the internet needed another MAGA safe space...and yet here we are with one being created on Surly of all places in the DT...thanks Imma/Obama

thanks obama GIF by hero0fwar

Have fun in there little delicate MAGA snowflakes

the kid mero crying GIF by Desus & Mero

Edited by Evil Bill Obrien
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Posted
31 minutes ago, pyrohornIII said:

Yes, from what I have read the camps were responsible for having their own plans.  That's ridiculous, because it's akin to each student writing their own test questions.  How do you judge the strength of a plan without a standard to hold it to?   Just more passing responsibility along.

Thanks for being a First Responder. Perhaps our disagreement is over semantics, but IMHO, any school, club, organization, camp, etc., that takes care of large numbers of people should have their own plan for evacuation. If experts can evaluate and correct it, all the better, but surely any plan is better than no plan. As we all know from the The Station night club fire in Rhode Island, disaster happens in seconds. Love to hear your thoughts. 

Posted
12 hours ago, David Dennison said:

 

Unbelievable.

1. This isn’t a fucking football game. This is real life. People died.

2. I played football. We damn sure got called out for our mistakes in the film room.

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Posted

Saw it somewhere, maybe not on this thread, but AP among others was reporting that Mystic had just passed it's inspection or some such.

I noticed that most camps note their membership in a trade org of some sort and licensure by the state and post links.

This is the State Dept. of Health Service site/page for camps.  https://www.dshs.texas.gov/youth-camp-program

I didn't see much/anything about disaster planning in the certification/licensure information/application, etc.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Saw it somewhere, maybe not on this thread, but AP among others was reporting that Mystic had just passed it's inspection or some such.

I noticed that most camps note their membership in a trade org of some sort and licensure by the state and post links.

This is the State Dept. of Health Service site/page for camps.  https://www.dshs.texas.gov/youth-camp-program

I didn't see much/anything about disaster planning in the certification/licensure information/application, etc.

Yeah, I read that this morning, also.

"Texas inspectors signed off on Camp Mystic’s emergency planning just two days before catastrophic flooding killed more than two dozen people at the all-girls Christian summer camp, most of them children.

The Department of State Health Services released records Tuesday showing the camp complied with a host of state regulations regarding “procedures to be implemented in case of a disaster.” Among them: instructing campers what to do if they need to evacuate and assigning specific duties to each staff member and counselor."

https://apnews.com/article/camp-mystic-floods-state-inspection-ef17d51dc7868fa9cc5c3076c31ed98a

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Hammerin Hank said:

Unbelievable.

1. This isn’t a fucking football game. This is real life. People died.

2. I played football. We damn sure got called out for our mistakes in the film room.

No shit.  Greg, you're a Longhorn graduate and fan.  Are you going to call Steve Sarkisian a loser when during a press conference after a loss he owns up to mistakes the team made and how it could have prepared and/or performed better?

I'd kill to have aggy Rick Perry back as governor.  

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Posted
2 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

Thanks for being a First Responder. Perhaps our disagreement is over semantics, but IMHO, any school, club, organization, camp, etc., that takes care of large numbers of people should have their own plan for evacuation. If experts can evaluate and correct it, all the better, but surely any plan is better than no plan. As we all know from the The Station night club fire in Rhode Island, disaster happens in seconds. Love to hear your thoughts. 

The issue I have here is that the State kept no records as copy of the evac plan. They were all on-site and likely destroyed in the flood. So there isn't really an authoritative record of their plan that was approved aside from "trust me, bro"

I have a hard time believing that the plan was acceptable, given the empirical outcome of its execution. And yet, expressing that opinion is somehow political in the eyes of the overlords.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Captainant said:

The issue I have here is that the State kept no records as copy of the evac plan. They were all on-site and likely destroyed in the flood. So there isn't really an authoritative record of their plan that was approved aside from "trust me, bro"

I have a hard time believing that the plan was acceptable, given the empirical outcome of its execution. And yet, expressing that opinion is somehow political in the eyes of the overlords.

It appears there were systemic failures at many levels. As many have written here, I think they were killed by complacency, which is odd considering the area is called, "Flash Flood Alley."

The town of Comfort had sirens and they were able to evacuate everyone in time. However, Comfort was further down the river, so people had more of a chance of advance warning.  

There is a report that parents will be getting the camp letters from their now-deceased children in the mail this week.  

Posted
12 minutes ago, Captainant said:

\I have a hard time believing that the plan was acceptable, given the empirical outcome of its execution. 

Well, it's certainly possible that the plan was acceptable and the camp just didn't follow it.

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Posted
1 minute ago, TreatyOak said:

There is a report that parents will be getting the camp letters from their now-deceased children in the mail this week.  

I read somewhere that some of the parents had already received them.  That was a gut punch.  I can't even imagine.

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Posted
16 minutes ago, gernblansten said:

Yeah, I read that this morning, also.

"Texas inspectors signed off on Camp Mystic’s emergency planning just two days before catastrophic flooding killed more than two dozen people at the all-girls Christian summer camp, most of them children.

The Department of State Health Services released records Tuesday showing the camp complied with a host of state regulations regarding “procedures to be implemented in case of a disaster.” Among them: instructing campers what to do if they need to evacuate and assigning specific duties to each staff member and counselor."

https://apnews.com/article/camp-mystic-floods-state-inspection-ef17d51dc7868fa9cc5c3076c31ed98a

See, big government killed those kids, so we need less regulation and fewer safety protocols to keep Communism from murdering our babies. Also, I like football.

- Rs

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Posted
18 minutes ago, gernblansten said:

Yeah, I read that this morning, also.

"Texas inspectors signed off on Camp Mystic’s emergency planning just two days before catastrophic flooding killed more than two dozen people at the all-girls Christian summer camp, most of them children.

The Department of State Health Services released records Tuesday showing the camp complied with a host of state regulations regarding “procedures to be implemented in case of a disaster.” Among them: instructing campers what to do if they need to evacuate and assigning specific duties to each staff member and counselor."

https://apnews.com/article/camp-mystic-floods-state-inspection-ef17d51dc7868fa9cc5c3076c31ed98a

Procedure in case of flooding: Be broken by debris as you drown in desperate fear.

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Posted
1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, it's certainly possible that the plan was acceptable and the camp just didn't follow it.

What annoys me is all the people on Facebook referring to the owner of the camp as a heroe*. If he was the leader of a camp where my child was killed 'cause they didn't evacuate in time, I would be using a few other words to describe him. 

The surviving owner can say whatever they want about not being warned, but I am guessing the lawyers for the families will uncover what really went down. 

* We have a lot of uneducated morons in this country. 

 

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Posted
36 minutes ago, Hammerin Hank said:

Unbelievable.

1. This isn’t a fucking football game. This is real life. People died.

2. I played football. We damn sure got called out for our mistakes in the film room.

We don’t want to hurt the feelings of Those who made mistakes.

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Posted
8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Well, it's certainly possible that the plan was acceptable and the camp just didn't follow it.

And it remains to be fully explained what exactly Kerr County did in response to the flash flood watch and warning alerts sent out by NWS, you're absolutely right that the camp itself may be victim of the county's negligence in all of this.

But Mystic was also the folks operating a camp in the most flood prone area of the country during flash flood conditions, with nobody standing watch for hundreds of souls. Who knows if their emergency planning even had a watch stander, or if one is even required by the State?

More questions to be ignored and shouted down with accusations of politicizing things, I guess.

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Captainant said:

And it remains to be fully explained what exactly Kerr County did in response to the flash flood watch and warning alerts sent out by NWS, you're absolutely right that the camp itself may be victim of the county's negligence in all of this.

We know exactly what Kerr County did during the flash flood 'cause they told us. The city manager said in his press conference that he went for a run at 3:30am. You know...standard emergency protocol.  

Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, South Austin said:
I read somewhere that some of the parents had already received them.  That was a gut punch.  I can't even imagine.


Our friends said they got a letter from their drowned daughter sometime Sunday or Monday. It said something like “don’t worry about me, I’m having so much fun with my friends” and other stuff like that. Fuck, it’s making me cry all over again.

EDIT: Forgot one thing that at least brought a temporary smile and laugh. Eloise mentioned in her letter she was disappointed that she was a "Kiowa" rather than a "Tonk" like her mother at Mystic but rationalized it by saying Kiowa's colors were red and that's pretty close to pink, her favorite color.

Goddammit. 

Edited by C-Man
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Posted
Just now, C-Man said:

Our friends said they got a letter from their drowned daughter sometime Sunday or Monday. It said something like “don’t worry about me, I’m having so much fun with my friends” and other stuff like that. Fuck, it’s making me cry all over again.

Man, I'm sorry.

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Posted
32 minutes ago, South Austin said:

I read somewhere that some of the parents had already received them.  That was a gut punch.  I can't even imagine.

Or, they could choose to see it as a gift. Hopefully they all can, in their own time. 

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Posted
2 hours ago, pyrohornIII said:

Then add in that the government about 20 years ago sold off a huge chunk of bandwidth of our airwaves to private vendors like cell phone companies.  That forced departments to start moving away from analog radios to digital systems, which are way more expensive.

i remember dps having beepers that were part of the forest service fire alert system before aggy bought it - this would have been 30ish years ago

Posted
42 minutes ago, Bookman said:

We don’t want to hurt the feelings of Those who made mistakes.

and by calling questioners losers he insulted the surviving family of all of the victims and he's going to get himself slapped by one of the mystic moms if he dares try to glom on to their mourning events

Posted
12 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

The problem is the right wing have deemed everything that could possibly challenge their worldview as “political”.  Weather, science, people being gay, discrimination, history, and on and on.   The orangeshitbag took it to infinity.  

Exactly.

"Stop making this political!" when they make everything about politics is just another data point that the game is rigged. 

 



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