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The AAF may fold in a couple days


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2 minutes ago, Blotto said:

I'm having a hard time believing Dundon decided to lose a reported $70 million just to own an app that he could probably pay a team of developers in India far, far, far, less to write from scratch. 

My sports books have offered ingame betting for years. It's not like the concept was created by the AAF. 

It depends on what type of patents the league owns on interface, etc.  If they are robust, then he could have a situation where he has both the leagues and the casinos by the balls.  It seems he was willing to risk $70mm on it, so I'd assume there must be some serious functionality/relationship IP behind it.  

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Who developed the app?  Was the app the AAF's plan to leverage the NFL to partner with them?  I keep reading Dundon did this for the app, but unless the AAF developed the app in house wouldn't whoever developed have a little say so or recourse on Dundon's plans?  I'm just a caveman though so these concepts frighten me.

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SI article saying that MGM Casinos may have some or all of the rights to the app they were partners in developing it

one would think that dundon would have vetted that, but one would think he could have fucked over the AAF in a less unappealing way as well

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/02/alliance-american-football-league-suspension-legal-implications-fallout

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Why do people keep doing this alt-NFL thing?  I get the AFL worked, but that was 50 years ago.  I now remember the WFL, the USFL, the UFL, the XFL 1.0, and the AAF within my lifetime.  All failed, most within a year.  Even the NFL failed with the WLAF, although that's a bit of a different idea. 

What's in it for the founders each time?  There's got to be an angle.

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1 minute ago, Liquor and Poker said:

Why do people keep doing this alt-NFL thing?  I get the AFL worked, but that was 50 years ago.  I now remember the WFL, the USFL, the UFL, the XFL 1.0, and the AAF within my lifetime.  All failed, most within a year.  Even the NFL failed with the WLAF, although that's a bit of a different idea. 

What's in it for the founders each time?  There's got to be an angle.

Because no matter how many times something fails, there is always a moron saying they will do it correctly this time. 

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2 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Who developed the app?  Was the app the AAF's plan to leverage the NFL to partner with them?  I keep reading Dundon did this for the app, but unless the AAF developed the app in house wouldn't whoever developed have a little say so or recourse on Dundon's plans?  I'm just a caveman though so these concepts frighten me.

It apparently was an AAF in-house tech group that developed it. Was part of the grand plan for the league. Be able to watch and bet on the game from the same screen to the point of being able to bet on if the next play was a run or pass.  Depending on IP and such.. 70M seems like could be a cheap cost, but still would not explain not trying to make the AAF work

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50 minutes ago, Liquor and Poker said:

Why do people keep doing this alt-NFL thing?  I get the AFL worked, but that was 50 years ago.  I now remember the WFL, the USFL, the UFL, the XFL 1.0, and the AAF within my lifetime.  All failed, most within a year.  Even the NFL failed with the WLAF, although that's a bit of a different idea. 

What's in it for the founders each time?  There's got to be an angle.

This was not an alt-NFL though.  This was deliberately set up to be a developmental league to the NFL, to not compete with the NFL.  They were on the NFL Network, that would not have happened if the NFL felt like they were a competitor in the least.

It was 12 weeks of football in the Spring and it was very well received ratings wise.  They beat an NBA primetime game with MVP level talent to debut and they beat NHL and golf on the weekend late in the season.  I think they thought the NFL would buy them out eventually.  What is shocking to me is that they got something this big off the ground with only two weeks worth of runway.  That is an insanely shitty business plan.

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21 minutes ago, Hozz said:

This was not an alt-NFL though.  This was deliberately set up to be a developmental league to the NFL, to not compete with the NFL.  They were on the NFL Network, that would not have happened if the NFL felt like they were a competitor in the least.

It was 12 weeks of football in the Spring and it was very well received ratings wise.  They beat an NBA primetime game with MVP level talent to debut and they beat NHL and golf on the weekend late in the season.  I think they thought the NFL would buy them out eventually.  What is shocking to me is that they got something this big off the ground with only two weeks worth of runway.  That is an insanely shitty business plan.

I think we are starting to see it as a very poorly ran league.  Instead of letting it grow naturally they tried to come out right out of the chutes as NFL jr.  They were paying networks for airtime and probably overpaying for coaches with some name cache.  In theory, a second rate football league will put up better numbers than pretty much any women's professional sport and like you said beat out established men's sports as well.  The market is there for something assuming you aren't poorly managed and the NFL doesn't decide to squash you.

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2 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

I think we are starting to see it as a very poorly ran league.  Instead of letting it grow naturally they tried to come out right out of the chutes as NFL jr.  They were paying networks for airtime and probably overpaying for coaches with some name cache.  In theory, a second rate football league will put up better numbers than pretty much any women's professional sport and like you said beat out established men's sports as well.  The market is there for something assuming you aren't poorly managed and the NFL doesn't decide to squash you.

 

I don't disagree but unless you have FU money to burn it isn't easy to watch $70 Million being lit on fire. What people fail to understand it costs a SHIT TON to start and sustain a league like this (or any league for that matter) but especially football. This isn't 3 on 3 that you only have to pay a handful of players you are talking about full rosters of players, coaches, trainers, refs, front office people, and your day to day workers that make sure shit gets done. And that doesn't even touch the travel costs to move that many people around week to week. Overhead alone would be crazy. 

Where they dropped the ball was not projecting the all in cost year one. No way they shouldn't have had enough money to finish the year unless they thought it was going to start raining Benjamin's half way through the season. 

Piss poor business plan on a concept that could legit work but had no chance at the cash burn rate and not projecting what it would take to even break even after a couple of years. 

Only legit shot is the NFL to get on board and make it a minor league system for guys that are just outside the 53 man rosters like NFL Europe used to be.  

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22 hours ago, Liquor and Poker said:

Why do people keep doing this alt-NFL thing?  I get the AFL worked, but that was 50 years ago.  I now remember the WFL, the USFL, the UFL, the XFL 1.0, and the AAF within my lifetime.  All failed, most within a year. 

"Most" = 2 of the 5 you listed.  The USFL was the closest to succeeding, but it got hijacked by Trump, who wanted to directly compete with the NFL.  

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On 4/5/2019 at 12:20 PM, MonkeyDoughnut said:

It apparently was an AAF in-house tech group that developed it. Was part of the grand plan for the league. Be able to watch and bet on the game from the same screen to the point of being able to bet on if the next play was a run or pass.  Depending on IP and such.. 70M seems like could be a cheap cost, but still would not explain not trying to make the AAF work

No way that app, or the team that developed it, are worth anywhere close to $70 mil. Again, sports books have been offering in game betting for years. I'm not sure what kind of IP you think they created worth $70 mil.

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Who put assets into AAF? Under what terms?

Guy who wrote Forrest Gump sold the movie rights to them fellas out in L. A. for a fat percent of the net. Turned out that despite all those "Shit Happens" posters and coffee cups and Mama Says t-shirts and I don't know whatall, there were no net profits at all. Some mighty fine Entrainment Industry accountants and lawyers checked it all out carefully, and sure enough, every penny Forrest Gump earned went to pay perfectly legitimate costs and expenses. Better luck next time, Forrest.

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On 4/6/2019 at 9:52 AM, Beau Vine said:

"Most" = 2 of the 5 you listed.  The USFL was the closest to succeeding, but it got hijacked by Trump, who wanted to directly compete with the NFL.  

I guess the XFL made it 2 years.  The UFL apparently made it 3.5, but who knew?

Doesn’t change my point in the slightest- what makes these guys try over and over with an idea that has failed 5 times in my lifetime?  I still say there’s gotta be an angle here I’m not seeing.  Some scam or or con. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

On 4/5/2019 at 11:53 AM, Texas Flood said:

Your move, Brees and Foles.

foles and sam in two years. 

 

On 4/6/2019 at 3:19 PM, Blotto said:

No way that app, or the team that developed it, are worth anywhere close to $70 mil. Again, sports books have been offering in game betting for years. I'm not sure what kind of IP you think they created worth $70 mil.

if this app has something very basic that allows the betting to be somehow more appealing to the millions of degenerate gamblers across the country I think it’s worth a whole hell of a lot more than $70MM.

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On 4/6/2019 at 3:39 PM, Tex Long said:

Who put assets into AAF? Under what terms?

Guy who wrote Forrest Gump sold the movie rights to them fellas out in L. A. for a fat percent of the net. Turned out that despite all those "Shit Happens" posters and coffee cups and Mama Says t-shirts and I don't know whatall, there were no net profits at all. Some mighty fine Entrainment Industry accountants and lawyers checked it all out carefully, and sure enough, every penny Forrest Gump earned went to pay perfectly legitimate costs and expenses. Better luck next time, Forrest.

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1 hour ago, Rimbo said:

They had the right idea to make a minor football league work, but they tried to get too much coverage, too soon. You don't pay the networks to cover your games; they pay you.

iirc indycar/cart used to pay for airtime for races not named the indianapolis 500. 

seems like these guys had an inkling of a business idea and then decided to try to beat mcmahon to the punch after he'd announced the new XFL.  but they never did fully realize the business plan (assuming one was properly developed in the first place). 

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54 minutes ago, kopp0e said:

If this doesn't prove the NFL made a mistake in not placing the Raiders back in Los Angeles with Rams/ send Chargers to San Antonio, well, it proves it anyway...

 

New Orleans Saints should have forced the issue to stay in SA after Katrina. Nola is still not up to pre-Katrina pop which was only half the size if Austin at the time.  SA with black & silver (Spurs) and Black and gold (Saints) and the town named after Saint Anthony (SA) - just made sense 

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On 4/19/2019 at 12:46 PM, kopp0e said:

If this doesn't prove the NFL made a mistake in not placing the Raiders back in Los Angeles with Rams/ send Chargers to San Antonio, well, it proves it anyway...

 

lolwat?  Attendance?  I'm sure those tickets were roughly the same price?  Probably sold as many suites too?

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On 4/19/2019 at 12:46 PM, kopp0e said:

If this doesn't prove the NFL made a mistake in not placing the Raiders back in Los Angeles with Rams/ send Chargers to San Antonio, well, it proves it anyway...

 

2myHPD-z_400x400.jpg

Vic Mackey says gain 40# and she can move in with him and no more travel to dallas (Arlington) for the Cowboys

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