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CR: COVID-19 --Political Talk

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11 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Don't think so -- they've been a bit higher than other measures for a while now, I think I saw 129.5K or something like that on CNN today?

126,307 as of right now.

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3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

 

That audio sounds terrible, but there has to be more context to this story. 

I have no clue. Just saw the tweet and thread. 

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6 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

 

That audio sounds terrible, but there has to be more context to this story. 

1) there does.

2) you know what this really drives home?  That we absolutely need to repeal the ACA and let private insurance companies make these decisions, and for DAMNED sure make sure that we don't have any form of universal healthcare.  Yep, that's my takeaway.

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17 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Don't think so -- they've been a bit higher than other measures for a while now, I think I saw 129.5K or something like that on CNN today?

it was 124 yesterday, 129 this morning, now back down to 126. weird. 

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2 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:


I literally was looking at the screen when I typed that.

It's quite bizarre -- I had it paused because I was watching the Fauci, et al testimony, so I was about 45 minutes behind.  The number I quoted is what was on the screen.  I fast forwarded up to the live broadcast and maybe 30 minutes ago the number dropped to what you quoted.

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7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

1) there does.

2) you know what this really drives home?  That we absolutely need to repeal the ACA and let private insurance companies make these decisions, and for DAMNED sure make sure that we don't have any form of universal healthcare.  Yep, that's my takeaway.

But the death panels 

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11 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

So my hospital woes have been well documented by me here because this is my only real “safe space” I can vent anonymously because my other social media is relatively public and under my real name. This isn’t a big city and everyone knows where I work.

Just got the daily update.

We now currently have 48 CV-19 inpatients (they’ve stopped breaking out how many are in ICU and how many are “just” hospitalized), 32 PUIs, and EIGHTY ONE tests administered just today sitting in our lab to be processed.

The PUIs are almost certainly positive cases, so doing the math, that’s 80 patients (already hospitalized + PUIs).

We’re currently clipping along at a positive rate of 9.3%., so those 80 pending lab tests should result in approximately 10 positive cases.

Taking us up to ~90 Covid patients.

I won’t post specific population numbers for my county (don’t feel like courting a doxxing) but we are a Level III community hospital with ~260 beds. And 24 of those beds a L&D.

So we could be looking at 38% of our non L&D beds occupied by CB-19 inpatients.
I’ve felt a lot of emotions over the last few months. Today was the first time I felt truly frightened.

Sorry if this is a rambling mess and full of typos. I’m exhausted and I don’t claim to be any good at math and shit but our situation is terrifying.

 

I appreciate the kinds of posts from a layman's perspective, and sorry for what you're going through.  By the way, what is a "PUI?"

 

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25 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

it was 124 yesterday, 129 this morning, now back down to 126. weird. 

[repub] AND THOSE 3,000 WILL SURELY VOTE BY MAIL FOR BIDEN!!!! [licans]

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3 hours ago, Mdhorn said:

Can't wait to see MAGA COVID masks.  Those would absolutely be an artistic statement--irony and self ownership, and they wouldn't get it.  I bet you could absolutely sell the f'k out of them in MAGA country and get them to finally wear masks.     

I have not understood why these were not there from the beginning.

Hell you could make a mask that says "All lives matter" and I'd still be at least happy they were wearing a mask.  If Trump is all about  cashing in, I feel he missed a good money making moment.

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12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

1) there does.

2) you know what this really drives home?  That we absolutely need to repeal the ACA and let private insurance companies make these decisions, and for DAMNED sure make sure that we don't have any form of universal healthcare.  Yep, that's my takeaway.

The reference to the "state" was the tell. 

Sounds like the individual may have had a court appointed guardian.  Maybe what this drives home, rather than what appears to be a tangent about insurance companies, are some of the problems with the state appointed guardian programs of this state.  

https://stdavids.com/about/newsroom/statement-on-the-death-of-michael-hickson

"The loss of life is tragic under any circumstances. In Mr. Hickson’s situation, his court-appointed guardian (who was granted decision-making authority in place of his spouse) made the decision in collaboration with the medical team to discontinue invasive care. This is always a difficult decision for all involved. We extend our deepest sympathies to Mr. Hickson’s family and loved ones and to all who are grieving his loss.”

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19 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

The reference to the "state" was the tell. 

Sounds like the individual may have had a court appointed guardian.  Maybe what this drives home, rather than what appears to be a tangent about insurance companies, are some of the problems with the state appointed guardian programs of this state.  

https://stdavids.com/about/newsroom/statement-on-the-death-of-michael-hickson

"The loss of life is tragic under any circumstances. In Mr. Hickson’s situation, his court-appointed guardian (who was granted decision-making authority in place of his spouse) made the decision in collaboration with the medical team to discontinue invasive care. This is always a difficult decision for all involved. We extend our deepest sympathies to Mr. Hickson’s family and loved ones and to all who are grieving his loss.”

Texas actually has pretty decent guardianship laws compared to a lot of states (somehow or other, and I tend to credit UT law school to some extent, Texas generally has pretty good laws).

What would be fascinating to learn is why his spouse was not appointed guardian.

The spouse could have taken the issue to court to get a full flesh-out of the issues.  I'm sure the ACLU or some other counsel would have been available to handle it.

While it sounds horrific and gut-wrenching, it may be just another reflection of our seeming obsession with extraordinary end-of-life measures.

Edited by TwiceHorn

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9 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Texas actually has pretty decent guardianship laws compared to a lot of states (somehow or other, and I tend to credit UT law school to some extent, Texas generally has pretty good laws).

What would be fascinating to learn is why his spouse was not appointed guardian.

The spouse could have taken the issue to court to get a full flesh-out of the issues.  I'm sure the ACLU or some other counsel would have been available to handle it.

While it sounds horrific and gut-wrenching, it may be just another reflection of our seeming obsession with extraordinary end-of-life measures.

I don't know the laws state to state, I only know what I have seen first hand. Court appointed attorneys bleeding little old ladies with legal fees.  

I agree that there is probably a lot more to the story.

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5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I don't know the laws state to state, I only know what I have seen first hand. Court appointed attorneys bleeding little old ladies with legal fees.  

I agree that there is probably a lot more to the story.

Yeah.  Nevada in particular has received bad publicity over guardians running amok, appointed by cronyism and unsupervised by the courts.

In Texas, courts pretty closely supervise guardians of the estate.  Annual reports are filed and scrutinized. etc.

This would fall under guardianship of the person, but I'm sure similar principles apply.

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Here's another aspect of this whole I'm not sure a lot of people are talking (enough) about. Crime is only going to go up as more people get desperate. Glad no one was hurt:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158746091481484&id=108425916483

For those not on fb:

 

Screenshot_20200630-140540_Facebook.jpg

Edited by Longhorn_Fan68

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10 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

Here's another aspect of this whole I'm not sure a lot of people are talking (enough) about. Crime is only going to go up as more people get desperate. Glad no one was hurt:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158746091481484&id=108425916483

For those not on fb:

 

Screenshot_20200630-140540_Facebook.jpg

Yep.  That means its a great time to ditch the extra unemployment money and to allow for widespread evictions.

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2 hours ago, Firemans4Horn said:


n0 mOr3 gEtTiNg Pa1d 2 sKiP wUrk!!!

 

gop is a death cult

Maybe Kevin ought to get with the Turtle to start clearing off the backlog of items that are already ready for them to take up from the House if he's so anxious to have something to do.  

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1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

The reference to the "state" was the tell. 

Sounds like the individual may have had a court appointed guardian.  Maybe what this drives home, rather than what appears to be a tangent about insurance companies, are some of the problems with the state appointed guardian programs of this state.  

https://stdavids.com/about/newsroom/statement-on-the-death-of-michael-hickson

"The loss of life is tragic under any circumstances. In Mr. Hickson’s situation, his court-appointed guardian (who was granted decision-making authority in place of his spouse) made the decision in collaboration with the medical team to discontinue invasive care. This is always a difficult decision for all involved. We extend our deepest sympathies to Mr. Hickson’s family and loved ones and to all who are grieving his loss.”

I didn’t listen to the audio and don’t know any specifics of the case but my understanding is no matter what a patient wants or their self or state appointed proxy wants, no one has a right to continued care that is deemed futile. If the patient or their legal proxy disagrees with a decision to withdraw care deemed futile, typically another treating physician will be called in and if they agree further treatment is futile and the patient/proxy cannot accept it it goes to the hospital ethics committee. If the committee agrees further treatment is futile then all but comfort measures are withdrawn 

 

Does anyone here disagree that that should be the way to handle these things?

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Thought this was the Trump thread. I've removed more discussion about defense spending.

Apologies.

Edited by RomaVicta
Wrong place. Wrong time. Wrong beer.

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6 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

Geez.  What should we call the current death toll?  Mildly concerning?  

People are only dead because we count them as dead.  We need to stop issuing death certificates.

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Death toll bad. Trend in fatalities so far, at least in Texas, been ok.  We haven't see a spike correlated to the increased number of cases and hospitalizations.  We'll see if that holds...we are right on the leading edge of a two week window marking the spike in cases and hospitalizations. If the fatalities hold on trend, over the next couple weeks, that a really good thing given the trend in cases. 

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My county just had someone pass away yesterday who initially got sick in March.  The deaths can lag a lot.  I don't think it will as bad as the first round, but it's probably going to be worse than we are currently hoping it will be.

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2 hours ago, Anastasis said:

Death toll bad. Trend in fatalities so far, at least in Texas, been ok.  We haven't see a spike correlated to the increased number of cases and hospitalizations.  We'll see if that holds...we are right on the leading edge of a two week window marking the spike in cases and hospitalizations. If the fatalities hold on trend, over the next couple weeks, that a really good thing given the trend in cases. 

Seems as if most of the spread is in younger folks. If their number keeps rising then it's only a matter of time before Covid makes its way to infecting older populations at a higher rate. Once that happens, fatalities will skyrocket. 

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2 hours ago, kevwun said:

My county just had someone pass away yesterday who initially got sick in March.  The deaths can lag a lot.  I don't think it will as bad as the first round, but it's probably going to be worse than we are currently hoping it will be.

I think that 14 days is probably a reasonable lag period on average.  Maybe stretch it to 21 days. Happy to reassess if there are data behind it. 

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I appreciate the kinds of posts from a layman's perspective, and sorry for what you're going through.  By the way, what is a "PUI?"
 

Positives Under Investigation

Basically, a pulmonologist has clinically diagnosed the patient through chest X-ray, physical exam, and observation of the patient’s symptoms but they are still waiting on the test results from the lab.

Our system doesn’t classify a patient as a CV-19 patient until there’s a positive test result.

For example, there was a shortage of swabs a couple of weeks ago and it caused a backlog in testing and some results were taking a week or more for results to come in. We literally had two patients with a textbook CV-19 lung scan and they were on vents but the hospital would not report them as Covid patients until the tests came back.

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10 minutes ago, Skyline said:

Seems as if most of the spread is in younger folks. If their number keeps rising then it's only a matter of time before Covid makes its way to infecting older populations at a higher rate. Once that happens, fatalities will skyrocket. 

Secondary spread is a huge concern, I agree.  It's spreading not only among the 20-30s but also among the younger kids as well.  Those kids give granny a hug and it;s showtime.  We are trying to lock down and control the interactions with the grandparents as much as we can but man its not an easy calculus.  Some of them only have so many years left on this earth. I can't tell them that they can't see their grandchildren for a year with a clear conscience. If I was in their situation, I'd be willing to take certain very measured risks. 

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The reference to the "state" was the tell. 
Sounds like the individual may have had a court appointed guardian.  Maybe what this drives home, rather than what appears to be a tangent about insurance companies, are some of the problems with the state appointed guardian programs of this state.  
https://stdavids.com/about/newsroom/statement-on-the-death-of-michael-hickson
"The loss of life is tragic under any circumstances. In Mr. Hickson’s situation, his court-appointed guardian (who was granted decision-making authority in place of his spouse) made the decision in collaboration with the medical team to discontinue invasive care. This is always a difficult decision for all involved. We extend our deepest sympathies to Mr. Hickson’s family and loved ones and to all who are grieving his loss.”

John Oliver did a great feature on guardianship a while back and there was focus on Texas and how shitty the laws are there and how much harm can to people trapped in that system.


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Secondary spread is a huge concern, I agree.  It's spreading not only among the 20-30s but also among the younger kids as well.  Those kids give granny a hug and it;s showtime.  We are trying to lock down and control the interactions with the grandparents as much as we can but man its not an easy calculus.  Some of them only have so many years left on this earth. I can't tell them that they can't see their grandchildren for a year with a clear conscience. If I was in their situation, I'd be willing to take certain very measured risks. 

And it’s spreading more amongst the young because of selfish dumbasses.




Roll Tide, y’all.

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3 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

I didn’t listen to the audio and don’t know any specifics of the case but my understanding is no matter what a patient wants or their self or state appointed proxy wants, no one has a right to continued care that is deemed futile. If the patient or their legal proxy disagrees with a decision to withdraw care deemed futile, typically another treating physician will be called in and if they agree further treatment is futile and the patient/proxy cannot accept it it goes to the hospital ethics committee. If the committee agrees further treatment is futile then all but comfort measures are withdrawn 

 

Does anyone here disagree that that should be the way to handle these things?

No and since we don’t know all the facts this is the type of situation that should not ever be politicized unless and until the facts are known.

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21 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:


John Oliver did a great feature on guardianship a while back and there was focus on Texas and how shitty the laws are there and how much harm can to people trapped in that system.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have not seen that before. Thanks for that.  I have shared that with a few people who will appreciate the content.  

 

All I can say in this forum is that the system appears ripe for abuse, and there are some lawyers making coin milking it. 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:


And it’s spreading more amongst the young because of selfish dumbasses.

 

 

 

 


Roll Tide, y’all.

 

 

 

 

At least the pongfest idiots were results unknown at the time. 

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37 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Secondary spread is a huge concern, I agree.  It's spreading not only among the 20-30s but also among the younger kids as well.  Those kids give granny a hug and it;s showtime.  We are trying to lock down and control the interactions with the grandparents as much as we can but man its not an easy calculus.  Some of them only have so many years left on this earth. I can't tell them that they can't see their grandchildren for a year with a clear conscience. If I was in their situation, I'd be willing to take certain very measured risks. 

My mom finally cracked and demanded to see the kids. We went over Sunday, masked up and sat on the back porch for a couple hours. Did her some good, I think.

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1 hour ago, Bama Chick said:


Positives Under Investigation

Basically, a pulmonologist has clinically diagnosed the patient through chest X-ray, physical exam, and observation of the patient’s symptoms but they are still waiting on the test results from the lab.

Our system doesn’t classify a patient as a CV-19 patient until there’s a positive test result.

For example, there was a shortage of swabs a couple of weeks ago and it caused a backlog in testing and some results were taking a week or more for results to come in. We literally had two patients with a textbook CV-19 lung scan and they were on vents but the hospital would not report them as Covid patients until the tests came back.

 

Thank you.  I appreciate the .edu and I hope you continue to share/vent here.

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37 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Trump death panels

 

 

Hugo, jeesh. Man, I don't want it to seem like I just like to pick fights with you. I actually read your post and intended to reply before I saw who posted it. But, there is nothing wrong with this at all, and it's nothing like "Obama's death panels" (which of course weren't actually a thing)

In a situation where there is one bed and two patients being admitted, there is always going to be a decision made. I actually appreciate them taking a scientific approach to it. Their scorecard uses likelihood of survival as the primary driver with post-Covid life expectancy basically as a tiebreaker. What do you take issue with there?

Edited by BradInATX

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so we weren't locked down when restaurants were all closed and bars were all closed and then they opened up and now they're closed again?

let's not forget the relatively summery temperatures we've had here in Texas during this entire thing compared to New York

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3 hours ago, Skyline said:

Seems as if most of the spread is in younger folks. If their number keeps rising then it's only a matter of time before Covid makes its way to infecting older populations at a higher rate. Once that happens, fatalities will skyrocket. 

That’s the lesson of Iran-

spread among YAs->fatality rate falls -> cases spike -> cases diffuse to older population -> fatality rate spikes

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mpu


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