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Official Thread for Abortion Demagoguery


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6 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

 What are your goals?  If you were dictator of course. I know mine. 

Find the places where there is broad alignment and try to find common ground. Seems like trying to engage the people using abortion as a routine method of birth control is a reasonable place to start.    

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2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Find the places where there is broad alignment and try to find common ground. Seems like trying to engage the people using abortion as a routine method of birth control is a reasonable place to start.    

Speed up the science or the collapse takes hold. 

We live in Medieval Times. 

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This is pretty great news that it passed (I don’t agree with it at all) but maybe people will realize elections have consequences and actually go out and vote. Keep on voting for Rs and this is what you get.

it’s screws over a lot of women but hey, go out there and vote every cycle and get your friends and family to vote as well….

 

I mean if your really surprised this law passed you haven’t watched politics for the last 30 years and the crazy christians who support it 

Edited by Gengs1
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lets see how Bill feels about this.

and of course there are a million ways to slice this terrible subject. I most definitely love this perspective from him here, not as an excuse for being pro choice, but more as a reminder to appreciate life a bit more and all the fuckups that come with it

you homies be cool now. 

 

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9 hours ago, tigol said:

I realize this is not the AIDS thread, but I saw this and thought of our current situation.  Cruelty is the point.  As a female, I don't think I've ever felt more shame.  I was a kid in the 80's, but there is no way I could have understood the heartless shitbaggery of the time.  We've surpassed this.  Congrats.  If that doesn't make sense, ignore it.  I'm pissed off and a bit speechless.

 

 

Reagan refused to even utter the word AIDS until it killed Rock Hudson.

If you’re too young to remember, search out the homophobic crap Anita Bryant used to spew. 

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8 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

Dominion Theology - No Separation of Church and State:

Though it’s seldom mentioned by name, it’s one of the major forces in Texas politics today: dominion theology, or dominionism. What began as a fringe evangelical sect in the 1970s has seen its influence mushroom — so much so that sociologist Sara Diamond has called dominionism “the central unifying ideology for the Christian Right.” (Italics hers.) That’s especially true here in Texas, where dominionist beliefs have, over the last decade, become part and parcel of right-wing politics at the highest levels of government.

So, what is it? Dominionism fundamentally opposes America’s venerable tradition of church-state separation — in fact, dominionists deny the Founders ever intended that separation in the first place. According to Frederick Clarkson, senior fellow for religious liberty at the non-profit social justice think tank Political Research Associates, dominionists believe that Christians “have a biblical mandate to control all earthly institutions — including government — until the second coming of Jesus.” And that should worry all Texans — Christians and non-Christians alike.

  Reveal hidden contents

Dominionism comes in “soft” and “hard” varieties. “Hard” dominionism (sometimes called Christian Reconstructionism), as Clarkson describes it, explicitly seeks to replace secular government, and the U.S. Constitution, with a system based on Old Testament law.

The father of hard dominionism, the late Presbyterian theologian R.J. Rushdoony, called for his followers to “take back government … and put it in the hands of Christians.”

Rushdoony’s legacy has been carried on by his son-in-law, Tyler-based economist Gary North, an unapologetic theocrat who in 1982 called for Christians to “get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political, and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God.” (North, founder of the Institute for Christian Economics, did not respond to my request for comment.)

PERHAPS THE MOST POWERFUL DOMINIONIST IN TEXAS POLITICS IS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR DAN PATRICK.  PATRICK SAID THAT ELECTED OFFICIALS MUST LOOK TO SCRIPTURE WHEN THEY MAKE POLICY, “BECAUSE EVERY PROBLEM WE HAVE IN AMERICA HAS A SOLUTION IN THE BIBLE.”

 

Top Texas political figures have had links to dominionism for years. In 2011, the Observer covered then-Governor Rick Perry’s ties to a branch of the movement, the New Apostolic Reformation. Since then, the relationship between dominionism and right-wing politics has become even cozier.

Case in point: Ted Cruz. Although Cruz is too politically savvy to openly endorse dominionism, key figures on his team are explicit dominionists.

The most important may be his father, evangelist Rafael Cruz, a frequent surrogate for Cruz on the political stage.

Cruz père espouses Seven Mountains Dominionism, which holds that Christians must take control of seven “mountains,” or areas of life: family, religion, education, media, entertainment, business and government. Speaking at the Texas GOP Convention in Dallas in May, Rafael Cruz claimed that God inspired the Founders to produce the Constitution, and declared that “biblical values” have made America the greatest country on earth. He encouraged Christian pastors to run for public office at every level, and called upon all Christians to exercise their “sacred responsibility” to vote for candidates who uphold biblical values.

As for what Thomas Jefferson famously called America’s “wall of separation between Church & State,” Cruz claimed in a 2016 sermon that it was meant to be a “one-way wall” — preventing government from interfering in religion but allowing the Church to exercise dominion over government. (I have to wonder whether a “one-way wall” is really a wall at all.…)

From 2016 - read it all. https://www.texasobserver.org/dominion-theology/

 

Talibaptists. 

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I don't know if the bill was ever signed by the governor or if it got struck down by courts immediately, but the Louisiana legislature passed a law back in 1990 that lowered the penalty for beating a person that was desecrating an American flag to a $25 maximum fine.  It was never enacted.  This Texas abortion law reminds me of that but this is so much worse.  Flag burning was never really an issue that mattered to anyone.  It was just an attempt to make a culture wars wedge issue.  Our abortion law has far reaching effects and is the law today because the Supreme Court chose not to make a ruling.  Our law doesn't just minimize the penalty for interfering in the exercise of someone else's rights.  It rewards and encourages it.  Plus, that 1990 bill was passed by those Southern Comfort assholes we used to laugh at, the same people that almost elected David Duke.  This shit is the law in Texas.  It's amazing how far we've fallen.  

 https://apnews.com/article/d0d556c5d4254d1db5984ca2266d3c9e

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19 hours ago, workswithseed said:

I bet lots of Catholics are with this. 

I’ll take that bet. Most Catholics are for ending abortion, yes even in cases of rapes and incest, but the vast majority of Catholics, including the Vatican, will find the rest of the law abhorrent and anti-Christian.

What are we wagering?

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I’ll take that bet. Most Catholics are for ending abortion, yes even in cases of rapes and incest, but the vast majority of Catholics, including the Vatican, will find the rest of the law abhorrent and anti-Christian.
What are we wagering?

When they quit covering up child rape, they can have a seat at the morality table.
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1 minute ago, CooterBrown said:


When they quit covering up child rape, they can have a seat at the morality table.

I’m under no illusion the Church is a credible voice on  many subjects. Nevertheless, in my own experience, the Church supports the lives of countless moral, Christian, Christ like people.

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7 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:


When they quit covering up child rape, they can have a seat at the morality table.

 

The Latin church needs to unwind their policy on "celibate" clergy.  It's like a selection process for incels and makes no sense from an administrative nor theological perspective. 

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7 hours ago, Smax said:

I became a member of The Satanic Temple a few years ago. Love everything they stand for.

The Seven Tenets

I
One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
II
The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
III
One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
IV
The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
V
Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.
VI
People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
VII
Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
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5 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

I became a member of The Satanic Temple a few years ago. Love everything they stand for.

The Seven Tenets

I
One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
II
The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
III
One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
IV
The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
V
Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.
VI
People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
VII
Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

Way less metal than I’ve been brought to believe. 
 

image.png.fba2fff1fe6c45003b7c190d92f4217a.png

Edited by Biff Tannen
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9 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

I became a member of The Satanic Temple a few years ago. Love everything they stand for.

The Seven Tenets

I
One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
II
The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
III
One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
IV
The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
V
Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.
VI
People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
VII
Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

“Perfection is a road, not a destination.” - Mr. Miyagi

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9 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

I became a member of The Satanic Temple a few years ago. Love everything they stand for.

The Seven Tenets

I
One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
II
The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
III
One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
IV
The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
V
Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.
VI
People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
VII
Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

 

mighty christian of them

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13 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

I became a member of The Satanic Temple a few years ago. Love everything they stand for.

The Seven Tenets

I
One should strive to act with compassion and empathy toward all creatures in accordance with reason.
II
The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
III
One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
IV
The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
V
Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs.
VI
People are fallible. If one makes a mistake, one should do one's best to rectify it and resolve any harm that might have been caused.
VII
Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.

I considered satanism but was turned off by all the W.A.S.P. music.

 

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12 minutes ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

I considered satanism but was turned off by all the W.A.S.P. music.

 

Funny, that's what brought me closer to the local sect.

We do get lunatics, just like any organization,  TST doesn't tolerate any extremists nonsense.

Check out "Hail Satan" on hulu. Great doc on our church.

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On 9/3/2021 at 10:12 PM, Biff Tannen said:

Seems like if it was this easy then a fuck ton of people have been freaking out for no reason. No?

I disagree.   We've already seen 5 SCOTUS judges pretty much flip the bird at us over this.    A lower court has actual real adults on it and is acting logically.   That doesn't mean on appeal to each subsequent higher court that the injunction will stand.   I'd I bet Anastasis' left nut that when this gets back to SCOTUS, we're going to see those End Timers on the right overrule the lower courts.   

 

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On 9/4/2021 at 12:46 PM, hayden_horn said:

of course you do.

thing is, i would support that. if they choose that.

and the real thing is, i'm actually pro life. both my sons were very premature, and had they been born in the 80s, they probably would not have made it.

but this pro life type of path that republicans are going down makes no fucking sense at all, if the goal was really about reducing unwanted pregnancies. but that's not the point. the point is the cruelty.

instead of funding proper sex education, providing free healthcare and free contraception, funding adoption agencies and fucking fixing our broken foster system, providing free childcare to poor folks, etc, it's all really mostly about slut shaming.

and that's the point.

and that's why i quoted your post, not to single you out necessarily, but republicans make it all about the woman. the man part of the equation is almost never mentioned. and that is part of the white dude privilege i've learned to approach over the past couple years and try to put myself in other people's perspectives the best i can do. obviously, i'll never know what it's like being a woman, but i'm understanding that all abortion blame seems to be pointing fingers at women. women should be on the pill, women should get a device imp0lanted in their vaginas, etc. what about helping the women, and not ignoring the biological imperative that fucking each other is the natural order of things from puberty on? you can only delay the inevitable for so long. ignoring that reality is stupid.

Good points. I think a lot of the criticism for the Republicans caring about life only until the life is born is also fair. From what I read 90% of abortions today (later than 6 weeks) will not be legal. That’s amazing if you believe, as I do, that means that those 90% of babies cannot be legally killed. I guess that is a bold and an inflammatory statement, but it’s one I believe— abortion is murder. It’s just a different belief and I don’t see why someone else saying “abortion is not murder” is not equally inflammatory or offensive, but I digress.

Believing as I do and understanding that means unwanted life will be born, into sub-optimal situations and to sub-optimal people, I believe that I should make some room in my life to seriously think about looking into fostering or adopting, as I support this ban. I think that is a logical and faithful progression for most Christian people who support this— at least in my circle of communities.

Edit to add as I catch up on this thread; maybe the least surprising thing to find out is MIA is a Satan Temple member. God bless us all and there but for the Grace of God, go we.

Edited by DonkeyCigars
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2 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Edit to add as I catch up on this thread; maybe the least surprising thing to find out is MIA is a Satan Temple member. God bless us all and there but for the Grace of God, go we.

If we could trade people that follow those Seven Tenets for the fucksticks on Texags and TigerDroppings, the world would probably be a much better place, but you keep claiming the moral high ground as a "Christian."

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this seems like an important detail:

Quote

"When I use a stethoscope to listen to an [adult] patient's heart, the sound that I'm hearing is caused by the opening and closing of the cardiac valves," says Dr. Nisha Verma, an OB-GYN who specializes in abortion care and works at the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.

The sound generated by an ultrasound in very early pregnancy is quite different, she says.

"At six weeks of gestation, those valves don't exist," she explains. "The flickering that we're seeing on the ultrasound that early in the development of the pregnancy is actually electrical activity, and the sound that you 'hear' is actually manufactured by the ultrasound machine."

   
   
   
   

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/09/02/1033727679/fetal-heartbeat-isnt-a-medical-term-but-its-still-used-in-laws-on-abortion?t=1630836931519

 

Edited by elfenix
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this seems like an important detail:
"When I use a stethoscope to listen to an [adult] patient's heart, the sound that I'm hearing is caused by the opening and closing of the cardiac valves," says Dr. Nisha Verma, an OB-GYN who specializes in abortion care and works at the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.
The sound generated by an ultrasound in very early pregnancy is quite different, she says.
"At six weeks of gestation, those valves don't exist," she explains. "The flickering that we're seeing on the ultrasound that early in the development of the pregnancy is actually electrical activity, and the sound that you 'hear' is actually manufactured by the ultrasound machine."
   
   
   
   
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/09/02/1033727679/fetal-heartbeat-isnt-a-medical-term-but-its-still-used-in-laws-on-abortion?t=1630836931519
 

So… no heart beat, no time line, right?
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3 hours ago, DonkeyCigars said:

Good points. I think a lot of the criticism for the Republicans caring about life only until the life is born is also fair. From what I read 90% of abortions today (later than 6 weeks) will not be legal. That’s amazing if you believe, as I do, that means that those 90% of babies cannot be legally killed. I guess that is a bold and an inflammatory statement, but it’s one I believe— abortion is murder. It’s just a different belief and I don’t see why someone else saying “abortion is not murder” is not equally inflammatory or offensive, but I digress.

Believing as I do and understanding that means unwanted life will be born, into sub-optimal situations and to sub-optimal people, I believe that I should make some room in my life to seriously think about looking into fostering or adopting, as I support this ban. I think that is a logical and faithful progression for most Christian people who support this— at least in my circle of communities.

Edit to add as I catch up on this thread; maybe the least surprising thing to find out is MIA is a Satan Temple member. God bless us all and there but for the Grace of God, go we.

I’m glad you like a book. 

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