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Super Bowl LVII: Chiefs vs. Eagles


4th&Five

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18 minutes ago, Uncle Nate said:

The idea that grass designed for a golf course, that is grown on a tray and wheeled in (so no real established root structure), and then painted on top of that, would be good to play football on is beyond absurd.  I'm no turf expert, put I did play football and I do play golf, and I know a thing or two about grass root structures that most everyone else knows as well, except of course for the NFL grounds experts.

Anyone who has had to repair their divots on a tee box or fairway, or repaired their ball marks on a green, knows that that kind of grass simply cannot hold up to a football game with the weight of the players planting their foot for a cut.  

The Okie Light tweets yesterday confirmed it was grass designed for golf courses. Looks great, but not real functional for a foosball game, Bobby.

I think that tray system will always be a problem. Why do they have to replace the sod so often anyway? I feel like they change it often for big games essentially uprooting established grass and hoping to get the same root structure in a week or two. I posted in the other thread I felt as soon as I saw OSU posting about it that it was a mistake because I distinctly recall turf problems in that stadium being a regular headline.

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It's fun to poke a bit at OSU but honestly not really their fault the NFL bought a grass designed for golf and then put it in trays and expected it to hold up to 180-320 lb guys running at top speeds and or engaging each other in hand to hand contact when normally all it has to do is withstand 140-200 lb guys standing there and rotating their back hip/leg through a swing.  

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21 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I think that tray system will always be a problem. Why do they have to replace the sod so often anyway? I feel like they change it often for big games essentially uprooting established grass and hoping to get the same root structure in a week or two. I posted in the other thread I felt as soon as I saw OSU posting about it that it was a mistake because I distinctly recall turf problems in that stadium being a regular headline.

When I heard OSU was posting about it, it all made sense.

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5 hours ago, Magus Ossis said:

To summarize Bow:

1. Yes, I know the defender held an eligible receiver running a route in the secondary

2. Yes I know it turned out to be the intended target of the pass.

3. Yes I see the still frame of the jersey sticking out proving the hold. I get that this is a way refs are trained to identify holding.

4. Yes I know the refs saw the foul and flagged it.

5. Yes I know the defender admitted unequivocally he was holding.

6. Yes I know the defender knows holding is a penalty but did it anyway to try to impede the rout, hoping to get away with it and influence the game.

7. Yes I know an improvised play when timing is off is more susceptible to error.

8. Yes I know defensive holding is holding before the pass and thus is not penalized based on its EFFECT, even when the player held is never considered for a target.

9. Yes I know it rewards and encourages rule-breaking and conspiracy theories to ignore penalties.

10. I have judged the style of this hold unworthy of a flag, based on my vast expertise of skiing technique. I also think Jimbo would never have put his team in such a vulnerable position. That’s why he’s got a natty. 

What you clearly don't know is that holding happens on every play and has to be pretty egregious before the refs flag it.

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It's always true that both teams play on the same field, but it doesn't mean the fucked up field impacted the game exactly the same for both teams.  (Keep in mind, I'm glad KC won).
It's inexcusable for the Super Bowl to have a shitty field.  It's just beyond inexcusable. 

The league takes over that field five minutes after the last game and brings in the best turf folks. They fucked up. Why don’t you just fix the field that’s in there instead of just trying out a new golf course hybrid? Terrible.





M
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1 hour ago, bullet said:

What you clearly don't know is that holding happens on every play and has to be pretty egregious before the refs flag it.

Yeah, I'm pretty new to watching football, so maybe you can help me. It will be little effort on your part, I have little doubt, to post representative stills of the Philly Jersey sticking out on an illegally held receiver on each of the Eagles' offensive plays-- I won't ask you to do it for KC. Your blanket statement about holding is a commonly accepted one, but in the context of offensive holding at the LOS, not defensive holding when the receiver makes a cut in the secondary. I would be interested to see your objective criteria for "pretty egregious" defensive holding which facilitate fair and reproducible snap officiating decisions at the time of the foul. 

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The refs ought to call holding every time they fucking see it, and after a couple of weeks, it would be virtually eliminated from the game. The game would change overnight. A lot more scoring, a lot more pressure on the QB, more emphasis on hard hitting and running, and on and on.

A defensive back shouldn't be allowed to impede a receiver's momentum any more than  he should be allowed to use that player's momentum to his advantage. Leaving these fucking referees to decide on degrees of holding is insane. The NFL has been turned into a bunch of fucking accountants measuring miliseconds.

The same applies when a receiver catches a ball, tucks it and then fumbles it when he's hit... Yesterday, the fucking refs took away a KC TD because the receiver didn't make "a football move," or some such bullshit. Get the refs out of the game (i.e., stop their judgement on degrees of holding, or degrees of catching.) The fucker caught the ball. Then he fumbled it. Football should be hard clean play, and cheaters should be kicked out of the game - at least temporarily. Just stop it. Two holding calls - you're gone for a quarter. Tough shit. Then we'll see the announcers looking at a replay saying, "hey, there's the hold. there's no dispute. End of argument, let's play football.

Instead we have measured movement up and down the field. Every series there's a penalty because someone decided they could get away with cheating and a ref decided to finally call him on it, and far too many good plays are called back for... wait for it... cheating. It's getting so that every goddamned game's outcome is determined by a ref's call (or non-call). (See KC v Cinn). Games without rules, games with constant cheating, aren't nearly as much fun as when players are put on a level playing field and have to use their wits and athleticism to win.

That concludes my rants for the year on how they're turning the game of football into a chess match.

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On 2/12/2023 at 9:28 PM, wild_turkey said:

There’s nothing more pathetic than Cowboys fans celebrating a bad call to end an otherwise great Super Bowl because the bad call hurts a rival team. Basically a franchise that has a shitty owner that prevents ever even reaching a Super Bowl, so they are stuck celebrating bad outcomes for everyone else. Congrats?

WTF?? Post less... way less.

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I don’t know about anyone else here, having myself no particular NFL allegiance. I for one though always look forward to reading well-thought-out arguments that rest on propositions such as, “that admitted infraction doesn’t meet my unstated personal preferred threshold of egregiousness,” or better still, “blah blah blah fans of team that didn’t play in the game.” These posts make this place interesting and educating, and they demonstrate the insight of their authors.

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15 hours ago, Irish Wrist Watch said:

The refs ought to call holding every time they fucking see it, and after a couple of weeks, it would be virtually eliminated from the game. The game would change overnight. A lot more scoring, a lot more pressure on the QB, more emphasis on hard hitting and running, and on and on.

A defensive back shouldn't be allowed to impede a receiver's momentum any more than  he should be allowed to use that player's momentum to his advantage. Leaving these fucking referees to decide on degrees of holding is insane. The NFL has been turned into a bunch of fucking accountants measuring miliseconds.

The same applies when a receiver catches a ball, tucks it and then fumbles it when he's hit... Yesterday, the fucking refs took away a KC TD because the receiver didn't make "a football move," or some such bullshit. Get the refs out of the game (i.e., stop their judgement on degrees of holding, or degrees of catching.) The fucker caught the ball. Then he fumbled it. Football should be hard clean play, and cheaters should be kicked out of the game - at least temporarily. Just stop it. Two holding calls - you're gone for a quarter. Tough shit. Then we'll see the announcers looking at a replay saying, "hey, there's the hold. there's no dispute. End of argument, let's play football.

Instead we have measured movement up and down the field. Every series there's a penalty because someone decided they could get away with cheating and a ref decided to finally call him on it, and far too many good plays are called back for... wait for it... cheating. It's getting so that every goddamned game's outcome is determined by a ref's call (or non-call). (See KC v Cinn). Games without rules, games with constant cheating, aren't nearly as much fun as when players are put on a level playing field and have to use their wits and athleticism to win.

That concludes my rants for the year on how they're turning the game of football into a chess match.

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11 hours ago, 'stache said:

I mean, fuck the eagles, but that’s dumb.

This wasn’t created yesterday. All season long while ESPN was hyping them up, many pointed to their struggles with a weak ass schedule. Now in 2023 they will play against the other division winners (Bills, Chiefs, 49ers, Vikings along with Seahawks, Dolphins, and Patriots) and they could have a big dip in record, which will be attributed to some Super Bowl losing hangover rather than they managed to squeak by a lot of mediocre teams in 2022. 

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2 hours ago, Murfdogg21 said:

This wasn’t created yesterday. All season long while ESPN was hyping them up, many pointed to their struggles with a weak ass schedule. Now in 2023 they will play against the other division winners (Bills, Chiefs, 49ers, Vikings along with Seahawks, Dolphins, and Patriots) and they could have a big dip in record, which will be attributed to some Super Bowl losing hangover rather than they managed to squeak by a lot of mediocre teams in 2022. 

This is true. When you look at who they played this year, there were only 4 opposing QBs that were pro bowl level. And all of them were able to put up 30 points. Their defense was overrated from feasting on a weak schedule.

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13 minutes ago, Texzilla58 said:

Roseman will have to do some magic again as they have some big bills to pay. He’s also getting pressure from fans to “pay the man”. I’d string Hurts along through at least one franchise tag.

That's not at all how he operates. Hurts will get his monster contract, just creatively spread out. Some good players will come back, some will go for the money. Most of the contract decisions are on defense, which I do agree wasn't as good as the numbers indicated. Having the #10 and #30 picks in the first round will help.

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Roseman will have to do some magic again as they have some big bills to pay. He’s also getting pressure from fans to “pay the man”. I’d string Hurts along through at least one franchise tag.
That will be dicey. Washington did this to Cousins for a few years but he didn't ever come close to doing shit for them. Not sure how that will go over for his camp and the fans. I'd assume they would want to get him locked up and back load the contract to save room to still go after it the next years.
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1 hour ago, Vic Mackey said:
1 hour ago, Texzilla58 said:
Roseman will have to do some magic again as they have some big bills to pay. He’s also getting pressure from fans to “pay the man”. I’d string Hurts along through at least one franchise tag.

That will be dicey. Washington did this to Cousins for a few years but he didn't ever come close to doing shit for them. Not sure how that will go over for his camp and the fans. I'd assume they would want to get him locked up and back load the contract to save room to still go after it the next years.

Franchising a QB is dumb.  It's still a hell of a cap hit, and your only pushing the can down the road to when prices are higher.  

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Franchising a QB is dumb.  It's still a hell of a cap hit, and your only pushing the can down the road to when prices are higher.  

All of these new QB contracts coming up are going to be ugly because of the Watson contract. The Haslams should have been revoked for the size of that deal and fully guaranteeing it. Lamar is $100 mill apart from Baltimore on the guarantee and he’s been hurt the past two seasons. Move the fuck on.

I wouldn’t extend Hurts until he proves it another season or two. A handful of great games is not worth $50 mill yet. Will Cincy bite on Burrow? Mike Brown is a notoriously cheap bastard.
Mahomes is the only big money guy paying off right now. Rookie deal QBs is the path.
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On 2/13/2023 at 12:06 AM, Longboard Horn said:

Glad the Rams got embarrassed and didn't win that Super Bowl. EVERYONE KNOWS IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN BRADY VS BREES!

Would have been an epic SB. It would have been fitting if one of the officiating crew had walked across the field and thrown a flag at the feet of the fucking ref who let this one go. That fucker should have been thrown out of the business. In fact, the entire crew should have been banned from officiating pro football in the future.

Edited by Irish Wrist Watch
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15 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:


All of these new QB contracts coming up are going to be ugly because of the Watson contract. The Haslams should have been revoked for the size of that deal and fully guaranteeing it. Lamar is $100 mill apart from Baltimore on the guarantee and he’s been hurt the past two seasons. Move the fuck on.

I wouldn’t extend Hurts until he proves it another season or two. A handful of great games is not worth $50 mill yet. Will Cincy bite on Burrow? Mike Brown is a notoriously cheap bastard.
Mahomes is the only big money guy paying off right now. Rookie deal QBs is the path.

Are you seriously asking if Cincy is going to extend Burrow?

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16 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:


All of these new QB contracts coming up are going to be ugly because of the Watson contract. The Haslams should have been revoked for the size of that deal and fully guaranteeing it. Lamar is $100 mill apart from Baltimore on the guarantee and he’s been hurt the past two seasons. Move the fuck on.

I wouldn’t extend Hurts until he proves it another season or two. A handful of great games is not worth $50 mill yet. Will Cincy bite on Burrow? Mike Brown is a notoriously cheap bastard.
Mahomes is the only big money guy paying off right now. Rookie deal QBs is the path.

 

Hurts has only lost 2 games as a starter and lead the Eagles to the record they had this year and to a super bowl. The fact you are questioning whether he deserves a fat new contract makes you look like a dumbass.

 

It doesn't matter how cheap an owner is, Burrow is the second best QB in the league right now. He's going to get extended and the fact you're questioning that confirms you're a dumbass. 

 

 

I think if you want to win Super Bowls and have tons of team success you'll need roster friendly contracts similar to how Brady has done over the course of his career and how Mahomes current contract is structured. It allows the teams to have more flexibility in spending and roster management. The Browns completely fucked a lot of teams with their Watson contract being so ridiculous. Ultimately it comes down to the player and knowing do you want the super large paycheck or do you want a team friendly paycheck that still pays top 10-15 market value in order to win.

 

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