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Posted
55 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Yeah, it's clear why Engoron has been giving Trump a long leash throughout the trial. What's less clear is why he initially denied the request to speak.  I don't think it matters legally, but backtracking after the bomb threat will absolutely encourage Trump's supporters to keep that shit up.  

As a bit of an aside, man it fucking sucks how much further reasonable district judges have to go to these days to try to protect justice from Trump's cronies at the appellate level. We can probably think of at least a dozen cases off the top of our heads where a judge has prepared a watertight, 100-120+ page opinion painstakingly explaining why the law requires a particular outcome, only to have a circuit panel or conservative SCOTUS majority write some lunatic screed that's the intellectual equivalent of smearing shit over all of the walls while ranting about the Jews. That's not going to happen here (at least not before it gets to SCOTUS) because we're dealing with New York courts, but I think this illustrates just how corrosive an impact Trump and the modern GOP has had on the judicial system generally.

He didn't deny Trump the opportunity to speak as was pointed out above. He was told he could speak if he stuck to the facts of this particular case and didn't veer off into a campaign stump speech or into territory that has nothing to do with his civil fraud case. Either he or his attorneys wouldn't agree to those terms and Engoron extended the deadline to respond multiple times before saying he wouldn't allow him to speak. He relented today and then apparently shut it down when Trump started doing exactly what we all thought he would do.

Posted
3 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

Which will be appealed. Then appealed again. Ad naseum. DOtarD will be in the grave before he pays a fucking penny to anybody. 

 

Him and Alex Jones.  Who knew you could owe literally hundreds of millions of dollars to people, never pay it, and never face consequences for not paying it?

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Posted
5 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

 

Which will be appealed. Then appealed again. Ad naseum. DOtarD will be in the grave before he pays a fucking penny to anybody. 

 

Undertaker/funeral home...  or is Melania going to bury him by the grease trap at his Jersey club?

Posted

2 minutes ago
2 minutes ago
Jonah BromwichReporting from inside the courtroom

Engoron says that he knows everyone is anxious to get a decision. He says he will do his best to issue a final decision in the case by Jan. 31. He says it’s not a promise or a guarantee, but he’s reasonably confident he’ll be able to meet that deadline.

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Posted

Cannot stop laughing at this photo.  Left to right:  smarmy smirking attorney; an enraged Trump; Melania look-alike who Trump has undoubtedly banged/attempted to bang.

Trump's glowering is the best part 

 

image.png.89791289d7cffa2861431949f97a8b56.png

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Posted
5 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

2 minutes ago
2 minutes ago
Jonah BromwichReporting from inside the courtroom

Engoron says that he knows everyone is anxious to get a decision. He says he will do his best to issue a final decision in the case by Jan. 31. He says it’s not a promise or a guarantee, but he’s reasonably confident he’ll be able to meet that deadline.

Why/Why the fuck does he not have a final decision now? Aren't they fucking done?

Posted
6 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

2 minutes ago
2 minutes ago
Jonah BromwichReporting from inside the courtroom

Engoron says that he knows everyone is anxious to get a decision. He says he will do his best to issue a final decision in the case by Jan. 31. He says it’s not a promise or a guarantee, but he’s reasonably confident he’ll be able to meet that deadline.

That's because a good chunk of the decision is already written or at least outlined in considerable detail.

Posted

So when the fine is revealed, and it is inevitably appealed, does he have to put the equivalent of the judgment up in a bond a la Rudy?  Or in lieu of that, could the independent monitor be tasked with liquidating to satisfy that amount in order to meet a bond?  

Posted
2 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Why/Why the fuck does he not have a final decision now? Aren't they fucking done?

Because we want a well-reasoned decision instead of a rushed one.  The "ad nauseum" appellate process referenced above will benefit in expediency as a result.  

 

Also, by January 31 could mean tomorrow or next week.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

So when the fine is revealed, and it is inevitably appealed, does he have to put the equivalent of the judgment up in a bond a la Rudy?  Or in lieu of that, could the independent monitor be tasked with liquidating to satisfy that amount in order to meet a bond?  

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say typically, yes that is required.  However, in this case, they will waive that demand and he will continue on, business as usual.

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Posted
5 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Why/Why the fuck does he not have a final decision now? Aren't they fucking done?

Bench trials usually require extensive findings of fact and conclusions of law. This was a multi day trial with lots of evidence. And it will be appealed and scrutinized as nauseam by the press. Jan. 31 is pretty damn fast for a written decision. 

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Posted
Just now, Chewbacca said:

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say typically, yes that is required.  However, in this case, they will waive that demand and he will continue on, business as usual.

Well, except it's not been business as usual for the organization for a quite some time now, the independent monitor has been preventing a financial free for all (their business as usual) since being installed.  

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say typically, yes that is required.  However, in this case, they will waive that demand and he will continue on, business as usual.

He put up a $5.6M supercedeas bond in the appeal of the first defamation suit against Carroll.  I'm not sure if he asked the federal court to stay execution of the judgment pending appeal, but that was an option for the court and he ended up having to go the bond route.  So there's that.

Edited by dcbc
Posted (edited)

I have truly appreciated the legal information and analysis over the last few years. Perhaps I'm becoming unhinged in some quiet despairing way. 

 

16 hours ago, sidis said:

it is extremely frustrating and an exemplification of how celebrities/wealthy/etc... have a double standard.

that said, as i said earlier, the primary concern procedurally for any state court judge in a bench trial is not making an error on not allowing evidence/facts/testimony in that would allow an appellate court to say that decision was prejudicial or in violation of due process/constitutional rights/etc...  for good reason by the way.  but when it is a bench trial, the judge has no jury to protect so they can put it all towards weight and take that arrow out of any appellant's quiver.  that's why things like dauberting experts is a more tedious process in a jury trial than a bench trial.  letting trump run a clown show pointlessly to the trier of fact (the judge) who clearly sees what a piece of shit he is actually undermines trump's ability to try and undo any of it through the appellate process.  they completely fucked themselves on their outcome in this trial and one of its potential appellate paths so he could have a pointless tantrum.

him getting his way is insanely frustrating when the piece of shit should have been shot to mars by now but in this case, there's a bit of napoleon at play here...giving him the rope to hang himself.

Reading the intelligent post above, I have begun to have a vision of how the denouement of the republic is playing out. Regarding all of this stuff, it's like we're playing a game of chess against Trump with no time limit. Yay! We take one of his pieces every once in awhile, but the King is castled and safe. We have the upper hand, but he delays every move. 

All the judgments against him feel like small and petty things. Stuff on a chessboard. What does eventual victory even look like?

Meanwhile, Trump fights us on the real ground. This absurd and wicked man says out loud that he will rule with absolute power. He's been found in a civil court to be a rapist. Polls show he is a credible threat to win the presidential election. Even if he doesn't, does it matter? Will he concede? Will his army pause?

"Yes, but look how well we're doing in the chess game!"

"It's too slow and ultimately meaningless."

"You just don't understand the chess game! If you did, you'd see why the upperhand we have will pay off!"

I'll go ahead and put all my money into buggywhips! Can't go wrong. 

 

16 hours ago, safe sex said:

Well, I guess let's just keep on hoping that eventually Baby Donald gets a spanking instead of every little treat his heart desires

Safe sex throws up her hands and writes the absurdity. We see something obvious. We see crimes, insurrection, rape, state secrets waved around, Russian influence, billions from the Saudis, and a constant stream of lies from a President of the United States

Hoo boy, he's really about to get it!

16 hours ago, dcbc said:

The assessment of damages is coming.  Don't touch that dial.

I can barely care about this pending "victory." Will he pay it? Can they force him? Will it impede the destruction of the Republic by him and his GOP criminal organization? On the chessboard, a knight goes down. Next move will be a few months down the line. 

Yeah, things are going swell.

 

16 hours ago, gernblansten said:

You pointed out a few posts ago he was found liable for rape. I suspect when Engoron rules, Trump will not be very happy. 

Penalty for rape and serial sexual assault with a chance of child trafficking: I sentence you to diminution of your happiness. 

And it's all fucking obvious. Right in front of everybody's eyes.

I'm with the writers below.

 

14 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

Let me know when he actually faces consequences, like having to sell properties to pay huge fines or going to jail.  Until then he hasn't gotten any rod.

 

14 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

Why/Why the fuck does he not have a final decision now? Aren't they fucking done?

Why? Because those are the rules of chess! We've got our eyes on taking that bishop at the end of the year.

Do we still win if he picks up the board whacks us on the side of the head? Then he pisses on the board? What do we do?

Well, that's obvious. We wipe the piss off the board, set up the pieces, and challenge that SOB to another game! This time we'll really get him, boys!

The action to take is obvious and extra-legal. It must be so because plain ol' legal doesn't put a traitorous insurrectionist who we have on video tape from even being remanded to jail.  He's the president, you know. Decorum and precedent.

Maybe I particularly resent that I don't really find the fire in myself to risk anything to stop this. Will I drag my aging ass out to fight? Will I do more than post on this message board? Maybe I'm being punked because I'm a punk. I also resent that I now loathe my country and my home state.

Sorry to go on so long. I'll go back to ridiculing Aggies. Maybe that's my chess game. Sigh.

Edited by RomaVicta
typos
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Posted
1 hour ago, Carl Spackler said:

Cannot stop laughing at this photo.  Left to right:  smarmy smirking attorney; an enraged Trump; Melania look-alike who Trump has undoubtedly banged/attempted to bang.

Trump's glowering is the best part 

 

image.png.89791289d7cffa2861431949f97a8b56.png

Dewey, Cheatem & Howe Law Firm 

Posted
2 hours ago, Carl Spackler said:

Cannot stop laughing at this photo.  Left to right:  smarmy smirking attorney; an enraged Trump; Melania look-alike who Trump has undoubtedly banged/attempted to bang.

Trump's glowering is the best part 

 

image.png.89791289d7cffa2861431949f97a8b56.png

Smirking attorney got paid upfront.  

Posted



Well, except it's not been business as usual for the organization for a quite some time now, the independent monitor has been preventing a financial free for all (their business as usual) since being installed.  


Have they? He transferred out 40 million to his personal account in November without telling the monitor. Nothing happened.
Posted
3 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:


 

 


Have they? He transferred out 40 million to his personal account in November without telling the monitor. Nothing happened.

 

I could be wrong on this, but from memory I thought they prevented him from doing this though he attempted to.  If that is in fact the case, I'd say that portion of it is working.  

Then again, my memory of it might be wrong.  

Posted
2 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Maybe I particularly resent that I don't really find the fire in myself to risk anything to stop this. Will I drag my aging ass out to fight? Will I do more than post on this message board? Maybe I'm being punked because I'm a punk. I also resent that I now loathe my country and my home state.

I'm really curious if he "wins" the election how many people will actually sit on the sidelines.  I will damn sure be in the streets and using my constitutional right to free assembly. 

Posted
I have truly appreciated the legal information and analysis over the last few years. Perhaps I'm becoming unhinged is some quiet despairing way. 
 
Why? Because those are the rules of chess! We've got our eyes on taking that bishop at the end of the year.
Do we still win if he picks up the board whacks us on the side of the head? Then he pisses on the board? What do we do?
Well, that's obvious. We wipe the piss off the board, set up the pieces, and challenge that SOB to another game! This time we'll really get him, boys!
The action to take is obvious and extra-legal. It must be so because plain ol' legal doesn't put a traitorous insurrectionist who we have on video tape from even being remanded to jail.  He's the president, you know. Decorum and precedent.
Maybe I particularly resent that I don't really find the fire in myself to risk anything to stop this. Will I drag my aging ass out to fight? Will I do more than post on this message board? Maybe I'm being punked because I'm a punk. I also resent that I now loathe my country and my home state.
Sorry to go on so long. I'll go back to ridiculing Aggies. Maybe that's my chess game. Sigh.

Bottom line: a society based on the rule of law, to any real extent, has no good way to deal with rich/powerful people who simply opt out of the rule of law.
The GQP has found the cheat code to defeat and destroy the Republic: all you have to do is select the “rules for thee, not for me” option. The old bit about two classes of people: those who the law binds, but does not protect (us decent folks), and those who the law protects, but does not bind (the GQP).
They’ve opted out of the rule of law. That happens. It also means they’ve opted into a different set of rules. The rest of us should be prepared to play, and win, under those rules.
Warning: it involves a lot of dead people. It’s utterly stupid, insane, and indefensible. But they’ve set the rules and the field of play.
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Posted (edited)

Pretty early on out of law school, I was one of a not so small number of lawyers from various firms involved in a multimillion dollar fraud suit that became a multimillion dollar collection case.  It definitely isn't a quick process.  But (1) it's death by 1,000 paper cuts for the defendant(s), the plaintiffs ultimately collected, the civil fraud defendant was convicted in federal court during the process of securities fraud, he absconded and lammed it for over eight years, and currently resides in federal prison on a sentence he won't outlive. 

 

The enjoyable part of this person's life ended with that civil fraud judgment.  The rest was pretty miserable for him. 

 

Yes, things are more pressing here.  Time is a commodity.  But I disagree with the notion that the judgments are meaningless.  Remember the other Teflon Don.

 

But as with all things future-predicting, as the Zen Master said, "We'll see."

Edited by dcbc
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Posted
59 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

I could be wrong on this, but from memory I thought they prevented him from doing this though he attempted to.  If that is in fact the case, I'd say that portion of it is working.  

Then again, my memory of it might be wrong.  

They didn't prevent it, the payments were legitimate, mostly taxes according to Judge Jones, but were unreported.

Posted
5 hours ago, BamaATL said:

So when the fine is revealed, and it is inevitably appealed, does he have to put the equivalent of the judgment up in a bond a la Rudy?  Or in lieu of that, could the independent monitor be tasked with liquidating to satisfy that amount in order to meet a bond?  

Most likely, if he wants to postpone execution/collection of the judgment.  However, there are reasons a plaintiff might hold off on attempting to execute a judgment pending appeal.  That's the only penalty for not posting such a bond.  I doubt he can do it.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Most likely, if he wants to postpone execution/collection of the judgment.  However, there are reasons a plaintiff might hold off on attempting to execute a judgment pending appeal.  That's the only penalty for not posting such a bond.  I doubt he can do it.

So if we have that correct, in my mind the Trump org, and it's house of cards spirals pretty quickly starting in about a month.  

I've always thought he's a total house of cards, and upside down on pretty much everything.  Assuming all this is correct, we might find out sooner than people think.  

Posted
So if we have that correct, in my mind the Trump org, and it's house of cards spirals pretty quickly starting in about a month.  
I've always thought he's a total house of cards, and upside down on pretty much everything.  Assuming all this is correct, we might find out sooner than people think.  
Believe me, I want nothing more. I've just lost faith that anything meaningful will happen to this asshole.
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Posted
2 hours ago, dcbc said:

Yes, things are more pressing here.  Time is a commodity.  But I disagree with the notion that the judgments are meaningless. 

In what context are they meaningful? In Trump's financial life? I'll agree with that. So the judgments are not absolutely meaningless. There's been a victory in court. 

In the context of stopping a person accelerating the decline of the republic, my eyes tell me the judgments are trivial. These are the same eyes that watched the assault on the Capitol. They saw the impeachment where the criminal organization called the GЯP stood behind the would-be tyrant. 

Trump pays no price in reputation or political standing. He's set up the rubes to believe any assault on his character is a bad reflection on the people exposing and prosecuting him.

I hope my growing cynicism is proved wrong, but there are so many tributaries to this river of shit magma including "Christians," and ruthless business industries who combine to deny the science proving that we face the greatest natural cataclysm to ever loom before civilization. 

The two Dems who berated the GOP for their Trump toading in Congress are the first glimmer of the faint chance that decorum will be dropped and bare knuckles adoopted. 

Okay, back to laughing at TexAgs for me.

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Posted
22 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

In what context are they meaningful? In Trump's financial life? I'll agree with that. So the judgments are not absolutely meaningless. There's been a victory in court. 

In the context of stopping a person accelerating the decline of the republic, my eyes tell me the judgments are trivial. These are the same eyes that watched the assault on the Capitol. They saw the impeachment where the criminal organization called the GЯP stood behind the would-be tyrant. 

Trump pays no price in reputation or political standing. He's set up the rubes to believe any assault on his character is a bad reflection on the people exposing and prosecuting him.

I hope my growing cynicism is proved wrong, but there are so many tributaries to this river of shit magma including "Christians," and ruthless business industries who combine to deny the science proving that we face the greatest natural cataclysm to ever loom before civilization. 

The two Dems who berated the GOP for their Trump toading in Congress are the first glimmer of the faint chance that decorum will be dropped and bare knuckles adoopted. 

Okay, back to laughing at TexAgs for me.

I get the frustration entirely, because this has been agonizingly slow.  However, Trump just died financially in court today in his prized world of real estate shenanigans.  In my opinion, his financial house of cards, at least in that realm are over.  Sure, his group of rubes may well continue to fund his lifestyle for a while, but today was win, in a case I will remind you he's already lost.  This wasn't to potentially get off the hook, it was to see how bad the hook will be; and he did absolutely nothing to help himself in that regard at all.  

As for the criminal side of all this, the wagons are circling, and not on his side.  Again, it's been agonizingly slow, but judgment for his criminality is on his doorstep.  The Appeals Court didn't laugh in his face, but they might as well have.  He made such a ridiculous argument that even this Supreme Court, as awful as it is, won't be inclined to help him (again, my opinion).  His ridiculous immunity defense played out to the highest level, he now has 3 felony criminal trials in the next 6 to 9 months, and little if anything he can do to stop them.  

Eventually, even the biggest rubes can spot a loser.  They won't change their belief system in all likelihood, they will just move on to some other demigod, but they will move on from a loser; and make no mistake Donald Trump is a big fat Big Mac sauce sweating loser.  If he lives long enough, more than a year or so, he will get to see his financial "empire" in ruins (already are, but you know what I mean), his political clout completely gone, and his freedom gone.  In an odd way, I hope he does (thought at times I waver).  For now, I personally enjoy thinking about that sound that must be constantly ringing in his head, which is inevitability and fear.   

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Posted
32 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

I get the frustration entirely, because this has been agonizingly slow.  However, Trump just died financially in court today in his prized world of real estate shenanigans.  In my opinion, his financial house of cards, at least in that realm are over.  Sure, his group of rubes may well continue to fund his lifestyle for a while, but today was win, in a case I will remind you he's already lost.  This wasn't to potentially get off the hook, it was to see how bad the hook will be; and he did absolutely nothing to help himself in that regard at all.  

As for the criminal side of all this, the wagons are circling, and not on his side.  Again, it's been agonizingly slow, but judgment for his criminality is on his doorstep.  The Appeals Court didn't laugh in his face, but they might as well have.  He made such a ridiculous argument that even this Supreme Court, as awful as it is, won't be inclined to help him (again, my opinion).  His ridiculous immunity defense played out to the highest level, he now has 3 felony criminal trials in the next 6 to 9 months, and little if anything he can do to stop them.  

Eventually, even the biggest rubes can spot a loser.  They won't change their belief system in all likelihood, they will just move on to some other demigod, but they will move on from a loser; and make no mistake Donald Trump is a big fat Big Mac sauce sweating loser.  If he lives long enough, more than a year or so, he will get to see his financial "empire" in ruins (already are, but you know what I mean), his political clout completely gone, and his freedom gone.  In an odd way, I hope he does (thought at times I waver).  For now, I personally enjoy thinking about that sound that must be constantly ringing in his head, which is inevitability and fear.   

Until the Saudis or Putin of Xi step in to save his ass and effectively own the POTUS ...

This cocksmoker needs to be beaten this November. Not until then will our national nightmare be over.

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Posted
5 hours ago, C-Man said:

Until the Saudis or Putin of Xi step in to save his ass and effectively own the POTUS ...

This cocksmoker needs to be beaten this November. Not until then will our national nightmare be over.

 

Oh, just wait and see.

He could lose the election and still be a national  nightmare.  Considering the GOP will hold the house until (presumably) January 2025, there's absolutely no telling what might happen between election day and then.

 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

In what context are they meaningful? In Trump's financial life? I'll agree with that

They're civil judgments.  They're meaningful as they relate to his his financial life.  These judgments do nothing to save us from a Trump second term.  Nothing I've said has to do with criminal liability or preventing him from seeing the outside world . . . sadly. 

 

Whether the latter happens, we'll see.  As to the former, if he's following the fraudster's playbook, he'll be trying to secretly move assets around (despite oversight), which may lead to more lawsuits to collect (assuming the appeals fail).  It's a process, but as I mentioned, the enjoyable part of his life does not exist during that process (assuming he isn't reelected, which doesn't necessarily stop the process either--I don't buy the self-pardon, and it doesn't work for state crimes or civil offenses). 

 

This is a long fight, which I agree probably doesn't end until he's in the ground.  And it will continue against his estate, which will be entertaining as it relates to Jr. and Half-scoop.  But it needs to continue.  The good guys never need to let up.  Take solace in the fact that he is miserable.

Edited by dcbc
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Posted
1 minute ago, Fastbreak said:

He has given people the playbook. It’s like Mouse Davis with the run and shoot or Emory Bellard with the wishbone.

The playbook existed before Trump.  In most circumstances, particularly here, I'd wager that it isn't executed with the deftness required for success.  These people are as bad at covering up civil fraud as they are covering up crimes.

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Posted
10 hours ago, BamaATL said:

So if we have that correct, in my mind the Trump org, and it's house of cards spirals pretty quickly starting in about a month.  

I've always thought he's a total house of cards, and upside down on pretty much everything.  Assuming all this is correct, we might find out sooner than people think.  

I don't believe James' office would attempt to enforce pending appeal, even though they could.

In some places/jurisdictions, they have remedies for wrongful execution and sometimes doing it pending appeal can trigger them, even though it is ostensibly legal.

Plus, the optics of ruining someone then losing on appeal are  . . . poor.

Posted
37 minutes ago, dcbc said:

They're civil judgments.  They're meaningful as they relate to his his financial life.  These judgments do nothing to save us from a Trump second term.  Nothing I've said has to do with criminal liability or preventing him from seeing the outside world . . . sadly. 

 

Whether the latter happens, we'll see.  As to the former, if he's following the fraudster's playbook, he'll be trying to secretly move assets around (despite oversight), which may lead to more lawsuits to collect (assuming the appeals fail).  It's a process, but as I mentioned, the enjoyable part of his life does not exist during that process (assuming he isn't reelected, which doesn't necessarily stop the process either--I don't buy the self-pardon, and it doesn't work for state crimes or civil offenses). 

 

This is a long fight, which I agree probably doesn't end until he's in the ground.  And it will continue against his estate, which will be entertaining as it relates to Jr. and Half-scoop.  But it needs to continue.  The good guys never need to let up.  Take solace in the fact that he is miserable.

Yeah, plaintiffs may not be able to immediately extract their judgments from people like Trump and Jones, but they will be, at minimum, a constant thorn in the side for decades.  

For regular people, life under collection of a judgment would be a living hell.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Hawndoh said:

The nightmare won't end until he is dead, and even then I'm not so sure.

That's when the real crazy Qanon conspiracies come out. He will become immortal thru whatever crazy stories they propagate. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Fastbreak said:

He has given people the playbook. It’s like Mouse Davis with the run and shoot or Emory Bellard with the wishbone.

In 1997 the family of Ron Goldman won a judgment for $33,500,000.00 against O.J. Simpson. The most recent article I found from  a year ago, OJ had paid $133,000.00 and due to interest the amount owed was $96,000,000.00. That's one example. Collecting civil judgments isn't just hard to do against Trump and Alex Jones. It's the same trying to collect against "normal" people, too. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, gernblansten said:

In 1997 the family of Ron Goldman won a judgment for $33,500,000.00 against O.J. Simpson. The most recent article I found from  a year ago, OJ had paid $133,000.00 and due to interest the amount owed was $96,000,000.00. That's one example. Collecting civil judgments isn't just hard to do against Trump and Alex Jones. It's the same trying to collect against "normal" people, too. 

This is a vast exaggeration. OJ put most of his wealth in real estate - the house where he lives somewhere in Florida. No matter how much your house is worth it is exempt from seizure in Florida. So whether you’re trying to collect 133 million or $133, you can’t sell a persons home in Florida - no matter how expensive -  to pay off the judgment.  And no matter how rich you are, or how much you have in ERISA 401k retirement accounts, no creditors, other than the IRS, can normally seize an ERISA account.   Those protections apply to everyone no matter how much money they have.

Now, you can do creative things using trust accounts if you are rich that poor people cannot do.  They can move a ton of money from savings accounts and investment accounts to a trust - and then they no longer own that money. Because they do longer on the money you can’t seize it.  Timing and intent determine if you can get away with it. My lawyer knowledge is bankruptcy light, so somebody else feel free to explain it far better than I did.

Posted
1 hour ago, gernblansten said:

In 1997 the family of Ron Goldman won a judgment for $33,500,000.00 against O.J. Simpson. The most recent article I found from  a year ago, OJ had paid $133,000.00 and due to interest the amount owed was $96,000,000.00. That's one example. Collecting civil judgments isn't just hard to do against Trump and Alex Jones. It's the same trying to collect against "normal" people, too. 

Yeah unless you are suing a Fortune 500 company or have an insured defendant, collecting a civil judgment can be difficult.

The state provides a forum for disputes and some mechanisms for collecting judgments, but doesn't much weigh in on civil cases.  States also provide exemptions so that a creditor or judgment creditor can't take everything.

In a lot of ways, it evens things out.  For every disgusting defendant like Trump or Jones, you have a poor schmuck on the wrong end of a credit/loan dispute that could be absolutely cleaned out forever if collection mechanisms were stronger.  And sometimes you have civil suits between roughly equal parties where the fault is debatable and giving one party a big fat judgment and the means to collect it easily might be a miscarriage of justice.

The difficulties in collection encourage the parties to settle within the means available to them.

Posted
3 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

This is a vast exaggeration. OJ put most of his wealth in real estate - the house where he lives somewhere in Florida. No matter how much your house is worth it is exempt from seizure in Florida. So whether you’re trying to collect 133 million or $133, you can’t sell a persons home in Florida - no matter how expensive -  to pay off the judgment.  And no matter how rich you are, or how much you have in ERISA 401k retirement accounts, no creditors, other than the IRS, can normally seize an ERISA account.   Those protections apply to everyone no matter how much money they have.

Now, you can do creative things using trust accounts if you are rich that poor people cannot do.  They can move a ton of money from savings accounts and investment accounts to a trust - and then they no longer own that money. Because they do longer on the money you can’t seize it.  Timing and intent determine if you can get away with it. My lawyer knowledge is bankruptcy light, so somebody else feel free to explain it far better than I did.

I'm not sure what you think I'm exaggerating or what point you're trying to make, but I'm well aware of the limitations on collecting judgments. I don't see anywhere that I suggested OJ's homestead or retirement exemptions should be ignored and executed upon. The entire point is this isn't some novel Trump gaming the system situation. It's a common every day event. You can get civil judgments all day long and you have a piece of paper. That doesn't mean you're going to get your money. It's the same if the Defendant owing the judgment is Trump, Jones, Simpson, or Joe Smith with a net worth of $18,000.   

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Posted
3 hours ago, Hawndoh said:

The nightmare won't end until he is dead, and even then I'm not so sure.

He is a symptom. A pendulum swing against the tan suits and grey slacks.

This Country was built on hate and selfishness to the extent of hurting generations of 'others'. 

"Others" keep surviving and advancing. Essentially everyone becomes an "other". This is unacceptable for far many more than you can imagine. Until love overcomes hate, which would require humans to evolve much further than where we are today. 

The border issue is going to become a huge point. Watch. Gotta have more hate for others to keep this country where it has historically been. 

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Posted
26 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

This is a vast exaggeration. OJ put most of his wealth in real estate - the house where he lives somewhere in Florida. No matter how much your house is worth it is exempt from seizure in Florida. So whether you’re trying to collect 133 million or $133, you can’t sell a persons home in Florida - no matter how expensive -  to pay off the judgment.  And no matter how rich you are, or how much you have in ERISA 401k retirement accounts, no creditors, other than the IRS, can normally seize an ERISA account.   Those protections apply to everyone no matter how much money they have.

Now, you can do creative things using trust accounts if you are rich that poor people cannot do.  They can move a ton of money from savings accounts and investment accounts to a trust - and then they no longer own that money. Because they do longer on the money you can’t seize it.  Timing and intent determine if you can get away with it. My lawyer knowledge is bankruptcy light, so somebody else feel free to explain it far better than I did.

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Posted
32 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

In a lot of ways, it evens things out.  For every disgusting defendant like Trump or Jones, you have a poor schmuck on the wrong end of a credit/loan dispute that could be absolutely cleaned out forever if collection mechanisms were stronger.  And sometimes you have civil suits between roughly equal parties where the fault is debatable and giving one party a big fat judgment and the means to collect it easily might be a miscarriage of justice.

Your ability to handwave and justify the kids glove treatment of trump, jones, and every other fascist in our justice system is breathtaking. Bravo.

Yes if we didn't cut the fascists a break, then we'd have to bring back debtor prisons, or something.



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