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Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]


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14 minutes ago, RTF Horn said:

Saban went to the SEC championship in his 2nd year.  The FIRST game his team lost that year was in the Championship...to Florida...who won the whole thing.  

Nick also saw that his OC his first year wasn’t going to work out so he cut bait quickly. Fella by the name of  Applewhite. Saban, unlike Herman, does not fuck around. 

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24 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

Nick also saw that his OC his first year wasn’t going to work out so he cut bait quickly. Fella by the name of  Applewhite. Saban, unlike Herman, does not fuck around. 

Yeah well unlike this and his quick ascension to the conference championship, his and Herman’s careers are like exactly the same!

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Sooooo.... it's Wednesday.  CDC has asked for the dogs to be called off, because we don't want the players cratering with so much football remaining.  Noticeably, this request for a detente wisely does not mention the request is for the benefit of staff.

Okay.

Fine.

CDC, you want us to calm down, and get back on the reservation?

Here's the biggest beef I have 96 hours on.

Playing too hard is not a good reason for losing.  There are no good reasons for losing.  Here, in 2018, we are in the "post fact" era.  But don't try to slip a cheap jedi mind trick past this fanbase.  Do not insult us with a cheap attempt to mind-fuck us.  Leave that to the politicians and media.

CDC, you want us to call off the dogs?  Then get Tom to stand up on Monday and downplay the win over Tulsa, express his thanks and respect for the fanbase that PAYS HIS SALARY, and show just the slightest degree of humility, and we'll consider backing down.

Why is the media throwing the gloves on the floor?

Because they witnessed the 90%+ near-universal combustion of this fanbase in less than 10 minutes Saturday morning.

 

Here we are now.  Entertain us.

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Cross posting this from the beck thread. 

Here’s Tim on Herman’s involvement in play calling during the Maryland game and how the crowdsourcing pick a play model works. I don’t see how this could go wrong. 

“I thought it was great. We communicate things I see up there to him. Things that this might be good right here, or hey, what about this? So does he. He sees the same things. One thing that he has that I don’t is got the feel of them. He can look in their eyes and say, ‘Hey, we’re going to run it here because I can tell the o-line is ready. We’re going to mash them right here. Let's do this. I think it was a great adjustment. It was awesome. We kind of do that anyway. It’s always been that way. You get Drew (Mehringer) and Derek (Warehime). Herb (Hand) is going to say, ‘Run the power here.’ Okay, we’re going to run power. We’re kind of all in that together. As I mentioned before, we game plan, we have a list – here’s third down, here’s what we’re going to call. That’s what we kind of go off of.”

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4 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

Cross posting this from the beck thread. 

Here’s Tim on Herman’s involvement in play calling during the Maryland game and how the crowdsourcing pick a play model works. I don’t see how this could go wrong. 

“I thought it was great. We communicate things I see up there to him. Things that this might be good right here, or hey, what about this? So does he. He sees the same things. One thing that he has that I don’t is got the feel of them. He can look in their eyes and say, ‘Hey, we’re going to run it here because I can tell the o-line is ready. We’re going to mash them right here. Let's do this. I think it was a great adjustment. It was awesome. We kind of do that anyway. It’s always been that way. You get Drew (Mehringer) and Derek (Warehime). Herb (Hand) is going to say, ‘Run the power here.’ Okay, we’re going to run power. We’re kind of all in that together. As I mentioned before, we game plan, we have a list – here’s third down, here’s what we’re going to call. That’s what we kind of go off of.”

I seriously don’t understand this approach. I hope he is lying because he’s too embarrassed to admit he got fired mid-game.

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7 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

Cross posting this from the beck thread. 

Here’s Tim on Herman’s involvement in play calling during the Maryland game and how the crowdsourcing pick a play model works. I don’t see how this could go wrong. 

“I thought it was great. We communicate things I see up there to him. Things that this might be good right here, or hey, what about this? So does he. He sees the same things. One thing that he has that I don’t is got the feel of them. He can look in their eyes and say, ‘Hey, we’re going to run it here because I can tell the o-line is ready. We’re going to mash them right here. Let's do this. I think it was a great adjustment. It was awesome. We kind of do that anyway. It’s always been that way. You get Drew (Mehringer) and Derek (Warehime). Herb (Hand) is going to say, ‘Run the power here.’ Okay, we’re going to run power. We’re kind of all in that together. As I mentioned before, we game plan, we have a list – here’s third down, here’s what we’re going to call. That’s what we kind of go off of.”

So, he’s saying that it’s the blind leading the blind, right?

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20 minutes ago, bschoolprof said:

Cross posting this from the beck thread. 

Here’s Tim on Herman’s involvement in play calling during the Maryland game and how the crowdsourcing pick a play model works. I don’t see how this could go wrong. 

“I thought it was great. We communicate things I see up there to him. Things that this might be good right here, or hey, what about this? So does he. He sees the same things. One thing that he has that I don’t is got the feel of them. He can look in their eyes and say, ‘Hey, we’re going to run it here because I can tell the o-line is ready. We’re going to mash them right here. Let's do this. I think it was a great adjustment. It was awesome. We kind of do that anyway. It’s always been that way. You get Drew (Mehringer) and Derek (Warehime). Herb (Hand) is going to say, ‘Run the power here.’ Okay, we’re going to run power. We’re kind of all in that together. As I mentioned before, we game plan, we have a list – here’s third down, here’s what we’re going to call. That’s what we kind of go off of.”

So twitch plays is running our offense.

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1 hour ago, Hagbard Celine said:

Sooooo.... it's Wednesday.  CDC has asked for the dogs to be called off, because we don't want the players cratering with so much football remaining.  Noticeably, this request for a detente wisely does not mention the request is for the benefit of staff.

What exactly did he say?

 

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The highest rate of success that I see is grabbing a coordinator that has shown innovation, organization, and a certain level of confidence that allows them to step up to the big job. In fairness even then it’s a roll of the dice.

Kirby at Georgia comes to mind, as I really thought he would struggle. Replacing Richt when he was winning a lot more then he was losing appeared risky. But after last year I have to say they pulled a good one out of their hat. The fact he is a former Bulldog just makes it better. Pruitt at Tennessee on the other hand may be the exact opposite. 

Going back farther, Leach was a good upgrade at Tech from bag-o-dicks staff. If not for the political bullshit most believe he would have kept Tech in the picture.

Of course it isn’t just the guy you select either. You have to have some luck that the  guy can land and coach up the players he needs. And can pick a staff that buys into a new boss without any ego. I will always believe some staffs are handcuffed by coordinators who feel it should be them, and not the guy they are working for who should have got the job. They keep their feelings quite and play along, but there seems to always be a problem with team progress. 

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16 minutes ago, Hamttx said:

The highest rate of success that I see is grabbing a coordinator that has shown innovation, organization, and a certain level of confidence that allows them to step up to the big job. In fairness even then it’s a roll of the dice.

Kirby at Georgia comes to mind, as I really thought he would struggle. Replacing Richt when he was winning a lot more then he was losing appeared risky. But after last year I have to say they pulled a good one out of their hat. The fact he is a former Bulldog just makes it better. Pruitt at Tennessee on the other hand may be the exact opposite. 

Going back farther, Leach was a good upgrade at Tech from bag-o-dicks staff. If not for the political bullshit most believe he would have kept Tech in the picture.

Of course it isn’t just the guy you select either. You have to have some luck that the  guy can land and coach up the players he needs. And can pick a staff that buys into a new boss without any ego. I will always believe some staffs are handcuffed by coordinators who feel it should be them, and not the guy they are working for who should have got the job. They keep their feelings quite and play along, but there seems to always be a problem with team progress. 

The highest rate of success is paying for every top ranked recruit

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MensaTom may survive the season, but if he doesn't rebuild his O-staff from the top down, he's going to be shown the door sooner rather than later. Beck needs to go. Mehringer needs to go. Never hear about Drayton, but his RBs are not performing up to the hype, so... Not sure what Warehime does, but whatever it is, it isn't working. Meekins ditto. Hand stays, no doubt. 

The other day, in the midst of a discussion on Hermlololololol, some talking head mentioned asking Pete Carroll what a new HC moving from pro game to college game needs to know and do, and said that Pete's advice was to get the best OC, DC, and OL coaches you can, and fill the rest of the staff with superstar recruiters. The DC and OL parts seem to be in good shape now, and the OC part is obviously fucked; the recruiting part seems to be pretty decent, so... absolutely, Beck goes, no room for negotiation; the others stay or go depending on whether the coaches are or are not coachable themselves and are or are not star recruiters. 

Y'all followers of recruitment, what are the observed levels of recruiting stardom for the "other" O coaches?

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1 minute ago, Tex Long said:

MensaTom may survive the season, but if he doesn't rebuild his O-staff from the top down, he's going to be shown the door sooner rather than later. Beck needs to go. Mehringer needs to go. Never hear about Drayton, but his RBs are not performing up to the hype, so... Not sure what Warehime does, but whatever it is, it isn't working. Meekins ditto. Hand stays, no doubt. 

The other day, in the midst of a discussion on Hermlololololol, some talking head mentioned asking Pete Carroll what a new HC moving from pro game to college game needs to know and do, and said that Pete's advice was to get the best OC, DC, and OL coaches you can, and fill the rest of the staff with superstar recruiters. The DC and OL parts seem to be in good shape now, and the OC part is obviously fucked; the recruiting part seems to be pretty decent, so... absolutely, Beck goes, no room for negotiation; the others stay or go depending on whether the coaches are or are not coachable themselves and are or are not star recruiters. 

Y'all followers of recruitment, what are the observed levels of recruiting stardom for the "other" O coaches?

It'll be the same ol'. Barring a 3-win season, Herman will remain. He will be forced to fire all his assistants on offense save for Hand, and if the team doesn't improve the following year, he might get canned.It was around this time in Charlie's tenure that new "saviors" for the program started showing up in the minds of the BMDs, so watch for that. What we really need to is explode Bellmont, and I hope CDC realizes that. 

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18 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

MensaTom may survive the season, but if he doesn't rebuild his O-staff from the top down, he's going to be shown the door sooner rather than later. Beck needs to go. Mehringer needs to go. Never hear about Drayton, but his RBs are not performing up to the hype, so... Not sure what Warehime does, but whatever it is, it isn't working. Meekins ditto. Hand stays, no doubt. 

The other day, in the midst of a discussion on Hermlololololol, some talking head mentioned asking Pete Carroll what a new HC moving from pro game to college game needs to know and do, and said that Pete's advice was to get the best OC, DC, and OL coaches you can, and fill the rest of the staff with superstar recruiters. The DC and OL parts seem to be in good shape now, and the OC part is obviously fucked; the recruiting part seems to be pretty decent, so... absolutely, Beck goes, no room for negotiation; the others stay or go depending on whether the coaches are or are not coachable themselves and are or are not star recruiters. 

Y'all followers of recruitment, what are the observed levels of recruiting stardom for the "other" O coaches?

Did Pete Carroll also mention paying for players?

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14 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

What we really need to is explode Bellmont, and I hope CDC realizes that. 

1

I fail to see what exploding Belmont (one "l," by the way) will accomplish vis-a-vis a winning football program. I'll lead the charge to cut the fat, rid the department of entitled, non-productive hangers-on, but from all I've been able to learn, CDC runs things, not a bunch of overpaid bureaucrats. To assume that TH and the football program aren't getting and/or won't get all the support, both money and intangibles, that they need is to my mind unfounded. 

Given what we all agree is looking like a less than satisfactory season this year, I agree that TH will likely have to replace Beck and perhaps some others on the offensive side of the ball to take some of the heat off him. I couldn't agree more with the Pete Carroll formula and it doesn't look to me like the staff (on both sides of the ball) is full of ace recruiters. Let's clean house where it needs cleaning and replace them with killers on the recruiting trail.

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33 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

MensaTom may survive the season, but if he doesn't rebuild his O-staff from the top down, he's going to be shown the door sooner rather than later. Beck needs to go. Mehringer needs to go. Never hear about Drayton, but his RBs are not performing up to the hype, so... Not sure what Warehime does, but whatever it is, it isn't working. Meekins ditto. Hand stays, no doubt. 

The other day, in the midst of a discussion on Hermlololololol, some talking head mentioned asking Pete Carroll what a new HC moving from pro game to college game needs to know and do, and said that Pete's advice was to get the best OC, DC, and OL coaches you can, and fill the rest of the staff with superstar recruiters. The DC and OL parts seem to be in good shape now, and the OC part is obviously fucked; the recruiting part seems to be pretty decent, so... absolutely, Beck goes, no room for negotiation; the others stay or go depending on whether the coaches are or are not coachable themselves and are or are not star recruiters. 

Y'all followers of recruitment, what are the observed levels of recruiting stardom for the "other" O coaches?

Warehime and Mehringer need to be fired out of a fucking cannon in regards to recruiting, beck however is a solid recruiter.

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Here's a fun scenario to think about: our defense steadily improves throughout the year, and despite spending a lot of time on the field due to our inept offense, becomes a very good unit. The offense continues to look like Derka trying to dribble 2 basketballs at the same time. We end up with 6 or so regular season wins and recruiting stalls/takes a nose dive as a result. Orlando realizes his stock is high and that his job of recruiting top talent and putting up top defenses is only going to get more difficult and decides to take a HC job. Meanwhile, Herman parts ways with Beck, Warehime, & Mehringer.

In this scenario, how confident are you Herman is going to make hires that can save his job? 

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6 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Here's a fun scenario to think about: our defense steadily improves throughout the year, and despite spending a lot of time on the field due to our inept offense, becomes a very good unit. The offense continues to look like Derka trying to dribble 2 basketballs at the same time. We end up with 6 or so regular season wins and recruiting stalls/takes a nose dive as a result. Orlando realizes his stock is high and that his job of recruiting top talent and putting up top defenses is only going to get more difficult and decides to take a HC job. Meanwhile, Herman parts ways with Beck, Warehime, & Mehringer.

In this scenario, how confident are you Herman is going to make hires that can save his job? 

Not very confident at all - if he could do that, he woulda already, no?

It's possible, even feasible, but likely? Less than 50-50, imo. But, again unlike Charlie, he's a young guy and some young guys actually learn from their mistakes. Whether he admits to the mistakes or not, I don't give a fuck - as long as he learns and applies and the W's start coming, it's all good in my book.

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Daily rant: 

I sure hope CDC has picked up on Coach's inability to access his team, this is the 2nd year in a row where he missed on his teams strengths & weaknesses along with below average game planning. Perception and/or reality of playing favorites vs. the meritocracy preached with Sam, we'll find out in 10 days.

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1 hour ago, Jack Wilson said:

I fail to see what exploding Belmont (one "l," by the way) will accomplish vis-a-vis a winning football program. I'll lead the charge to cut the fat, rid the department of entitled, non-productive hangers-on, but from all I've been able to learn, CDC runs things, not a bunch of overpaid bureaucrats. To assume that TH and the football program aren't getting and/or won't get all the support, both money and intangibles, that they need is to my mind unfounded. 

Given what we all agree is looking like a less than satisfactory season this year, I agree that TH will likely have to replace Beck and perhaps some others on the offensive side of the ball to take some of the heat off him. I couldn't agree more with the Pete Carroll formula and it doesn't look to me like the staff (on both sides of the ball) is full of ace recruiters. Let's clean house where it needs cleaning and replace them with killers on the recruiting trail.

Oh FFS. https://www.utrecsports.org/facilities/facility/bellmont-hall

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1 hour ago, Jack Wilson said:

I fail to see what exploding Belmont (one "l," by the way) will accomplish vis-a-vis a winning football program. I'll lead the charge to cut the fat, rid the department of entitled, non-productive hangers-on, but from all I've been able to learn, CDC runs things, not a bunch of overpaid bureaucrats. To assume that TH and the football program aren't getting and/or won't get all the support, both money and intangibles, that they need is to my mind unfounded. 

Given what we all agree is looking like a less than satisfactory season this year, I agree that TH will likely have to replace Beck and perhaps some others on the offensive side of the ball to take some of the heat off him. I couldn't agree more with the Pete Carroll formula and it doesn't look to me like the staff (on both sides of the ball) is full of ace recruiters. Let's clean house where it needs cleaning and replace them with killers on the recruiting trail.

Oh FFS. https://www.utrecsports.org/facilities/facility/bellmont-hall

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13 hours ago, bschoolprof said:

Cross posting this from the beck thread. 

Here’s Tim on Herman’s involvement in play calling during the Maryland game and how the crowdsourcing pick a play model works. I don’t see how this could go wrong. 

“I thought it was great. We communicate things I see up there to him. Things that this might be good right here, or hey, what about this? So does he. He sees the same things. One thing that he has that I don’t is got the feel of them. He can look in their eyes and say, ‘Hey, we’re going to run it here because I can tell the o-line is ready. We’re going to mash them right here. Let's do this. I think it was a great adjustment. It was awesome. We kind of do that anyway. It’s always been that way. You get Drew (Mehringer) and Derek (Warehime). Herb (Hand) is going to say, ‘Run the power here.’ Okay, we’re going to run power. We’re kind of all in that together. As I mentioned before, we game plan, we have a list – here’s third down, here’s what we’re going to call. That’s what we kind of go off of.”

We pay these fuckers too much for this kinda unorganized bullshit. 

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It still blows me away that Ed fucking orgeron has enough swamp ass brains in him to fire the OC at lsu even after going 9-4 but Tom can't release tim beck after 7-5 and after he had to call the bowl game.

How do you pay someone 800K a year to call plays then take over play calling or use the excuse its a team game planning effort?

Then said ex OC from lsu beats you. 

I don't think I could ever make this scenario up if I even tried. 

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1 hour ago, Goodman said:

Daily rant: 

I sure hope CDC has picked up on Coach's inability to access his team, this is the 2nd year in a row where he missed on his teams strengths & weaknesses along with below average game planning. Perception and/or reality of playing favorites vs. the meritocracy preached with Sam, we'll find out in 10 days.

Reminds me of some sales managers I have hired in the past.  Great salesmen, great minds for sales...smart fuckers (haven't cross checked the MENSA roster yet) but their sales teams always under-performed in spite of all assurances to the contrary.  They legitimately believed and assumed that since they were leading the team...their message would miraculously transfer by some osmosis of the mind shit and enable them to turn a mediocre sales force into an unstoppable selling machine.

They couldn't get what was in their mind to translate into performance on the streets....and they were too stubborn or arrogant to understand that they were the problem in delivering the message.

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Cross posting this from the beck thread. 
Here’s Tim on Herman’s involvement in play calling during the Maryland game and how the crowdsourcing pick a play model works. I don’t see how this could go wrong. 
“I thought it was great. We communicate things I see up there to him. Things that this might be good right here, or hey, what about this? So does he. He sees the same things. One thing that he has that I don’t is got the feel of them. He can look in their eyes and say, ‘Hey, we’re going to run it here because I can tell the o-line is ready. We’re going to mash them right here. Let's do this. I think it was a great adjustment. It was awesome. We kind of do that anyway. It’s always been that way. You get Drew (Mehringer) and Derek (Warehime). Herb (Hand) is going to say, ‘Run the power here.’ Okay, we’re going to run power. We’re kind of all in that together. As I mentioned before, we game plan, we have a list – here’s third down, here’s what we’re going to call. That’s what we kind of go off of.”


Awesome is not an adjective I would use to describe anything about Saturday.
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