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25 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

Play along here.  The Doctor making the diagnosis is also the surgeon.  So, the OR people...let's count them.   You're the guy with the initials behind the name, so tell me where I'm off course. 

1) The potentially evil GYNO who made the diagnosis actually performing the surgery.  Let's assume he's a sick fuck or plain evil.

2) The Doc passing the gas.  His involvement with the patient consists of meeting her and saying "hi" 15 minutes before she's wheeled into the OR, knocking her the fuck out, and then checking on her in PACU.    Let's assume he's competent and decent.  Would you expect him to render a medical opinion as to the necessity of the procedure?

3)  The Scrub who's told "Dr. Evil is doing this particular procedure at 7:30 AM...have the room set up and his tray ready".  He/she is looking at Dr. Evil's preference card, and setting up the room accordingly.  No involvement with the diagnosis or whether the procedure is medically necessary, agree?

4)  The RN who runs the surgeon's ipod and keeps count of sponges  on the white board, and maybe fetches a drug here or there.

5) The PACU nurse who knows that this particular patient just underwent this procedure, and makes sure she's alive, stable, and has adequate ice chips. 

With all due respect Doctor, this seems to me like it could be a conspiracy of one.   

I fully expect you to educate me and tell me why I'm wrong, and I'm here for it. 

Well for one it would be really odd for only one doctor to be calling the shots on a lot of patients getting hysterectomies from consult/referral to postop care - now I’m sure if it could happen anywhere in the US it would likely be in that type of situation.  I’m just saying I doubt it.  I never said it was impossible.  I’ll stick by highly unlikely.  I can actually walk you through a similar pizza gate scenario that would be plausible if you don’t stray from the points and parameters I insist on.  

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31 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

Play along here.  The Doctor making the diagnosis is also the surgeon.  So, the OR people...let's count them.   You're the guy with the initials behind the name, so tell me where I'm off course. 

1) The potentially evil GYNO who made the diagnosis actually performing the surgery.  Let's assume he's a sick fuck or plain evil.

2) The Doc passing the gas.  His involvement with the patient consists of meeting her and saying "hi" 15 minutes before she's wheeled into the OR, knocking her the fuck out, and then checking on her in PACU.    Let's assume he's competent and decent.  Would you expect him to render a medical opinion as to the necessity of the procedure?

3)  The Scrub who's told "Dr. Evil is doing this particular procedure at 7:30 AM...have the room set up and his tray ready".  He/she is looking at Dr. Evil's preference card, and setting up the room accordingly.  No involvement with the diagnosis or whether the procedure is medically necessary, agree?

4)  The RN who runs the surgeon's ipod and keeps count of sponges  on the white board, and maybe fetches a drug here or there.

5) The PACU nurse who knows that this particular patient just underwent this procedure, and makes sure she's alive, stable, and has adequate ice chips. 

With all due respect Doctor, this seems to me like it could be a conspiracy of one.   

I fully expect you to educate me and tell me why I'm wrong, and I'm here for it. 

The anesthesiologist(s) would have to be in on it IMO if it is a large scale operation. They can tell you which surgeons stretch their indications and what is alleged here is WAY beyond that. A bunch of young healthy women getting hysterectomies and they come in with guards? All kinds of red flags there

The pre op, scrub and OR nurses and pacu nurses all have pretty advanced bullshit detectors as well  

Do we know how many hysterectomies were done and over what time interval?

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8 minutes ago, Irwin F Fletcher said:
2 hours ago, Dahobbs said:
[mention=1446]GRHorn[/mention] thinks he is the best and brightest we have. 

Well he's a fucking idiot.

and his vote counts the same as yours or mine. that's the problem.

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and his vote counts the same as yours or mine. that's the problem.
Well we've got him at a 2-1 disadvantage on the voting front. So not only is he losing, but he's also a fucking idiot who continues to carry Trump's panties in his med kit.

I'm done with tap dancing around those who continue to placate what Trump and his party are doing to our country.

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2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

EiAPWMoX0AES3_C?format=jpg&name=large

 

whom ever on the trump team that though it would be a good idea for donny to take questions from REAL non white americans, is a fucking idiot 

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Thanks for sacrificing and watching his town hall all. You missed some good basketball tonight. But someone has to watch him. He is making up policy as he goes along - promises it - then forgets it. 

He talks like a loser making excuses. He knows he is losing badly. Anything can happen. Gotta vote

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Trump sharing misleading doctored videos. Not shocked. 

(also, I kind of think the doctored video makes Biden look more badass)

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7 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Well for one it would be really odd for only one doctor to be calling the shots on a lot of patients getting hysterectomies from consult/referral to postop care - now I’m sure if it could happen anywhere in the US it would likely be in that type of situation.  I’m just saying I doubt it.  I never said it was impossible.  I’ll stick by highly unlikely.  I can actually walk you through a similar pizza gate scenario that would be plausible if you don’t stray from the points and parameters I insist on.  

 

7 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

The anesthesiologist(s) would have to be in on it IMO if it is a large scale operation. They can tell you which surgeons stretch their indications and what is alleged here is WAY beyond that. A bunch of young healthy women getting hysterectomies and they come in with guards? All kinds of red flags there

The pre op, scrub and OR nurses and pacu nurses all have pretty advanced bullshit detectors as well  

Do we know how many hysterectomies were done and over what time interval?

Exactly this.   Real life isn't like on TV where one doctor sees the patient in the ER, reads the imaging, does the complex surgery and is also is in charge of all the rehab.   There is an entire team of medical professionals at each step.   I can’t even take a shit at the hospital without some nurse supervisor or tech threatening to report me to administration.

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Man!  Somebody please help us out on this.  There was a press conference in the Rose Garden sometime between April & July.  And it was Trump "trying" to thank some pharma companies.  There was a well-circulated clip for just a few days, and I wish it had stuck as one of his biggest f'ups.  But it was him for about 30 seconds trying to pronounce some corporate names (not Rx drug names because those are a legit pain in the ass) that were aiding in the fight against Covid-19.  And it was just him with a lateral lisp and drooling for about 30 seconds as he fucked up every single word as not even his security detail noticed he was having a mild TIA.  Anybody remember what I'm talking about?  It was posted on this site, but not this thread...and only once or twice and then got no publicity about it.  My wife and her colleagues, all terminally degreed Speech-Language Pathologists, all agreed that was his moment of showing he has some neurological issues.  Not just old age, but legit brain shit going down (my words, not theirs).  

Anybody remember what I'm talking about?  It was by far the most damming piece of footage I've ever seen of him to prove his cognitive decline. Not even Man Woman Camera TV Poop could save him from that.  It's fucking hard as hell to find because you google "Trump not making sense verbally" and next thing you know...your grandchildren are born.  

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19 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Trump sharing misleading doctored videos. Not shocked. 

(also, I kind of think the doctored video makes Biden look more badass)

Kind of? Dude, if Biden actually did that even @bad_teammate would vote him. 

Edited by Dahobbs

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11 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I wish Supreme Court justices, and top government lawyers of all stripes, came from less Beltway-centric backgrounds.  It may be unrealistic for the DOJ.

But, for example, most Commissioners of Patents come from highly varied patent backgrounds with a combination of law firm, government, and corporate positions.

Most actually don’t. Barr is a bit of an exception in that he came up through DOJ.  The issue with Supreme’s is they all go to the same two law schools.  That’s not great for diversity of thought.

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1 hour ago, Horn Dog said:

 

Exactly this.   Real life isn't like on TV where one doctor sees the patient in the ER, reads the imaging, does the complex surgery and is also is in charge of all the rehab.   There is an entire team of medical professionals at each step.   I can’t even take a shit at the hospital without some nurse supervisor or tech threatening to report me to administration.

But it isn't a hospital. It's a private prison. Are we sure they have the same standards? I'd bet strongly against it. If the doctor gets to bill LaSalle Corrections for every procedure then he might be inclined to perform unnecessary procedures, especially in an atmosphere of limited oversight where no one in the hierarchy really gives a shit about the well being of the detainees. 

I don't know. I want to know more. I hope the story is overblown. But we have a president who has referred to brown people from south of our border as "breeders" and if it turns out that there's some zealot doctor performing unnecessary sterilizations on those people for financial and ideological gain then we shouldn't be terribly shocked. 

We still have very limited reporting on the story. Given everything we've seen about how the Trump administration conducts business, and inspires a callous and racist view of migrants, it sounds easy to believe. But we have to be extra skeptical whenever we're presented with a thinly sourced story that just "feels" true. 

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39 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

But it isn't a hospital. It's a private prison. Are we sure they have the same standards? I'd bet strongly against it. If the doctor gets to bill LaSalle Corrections for every procedure then he might be inclined to perform unnecessary procedures, especially in an atmosphere of limited oversight where no one in the hierarchy really gives a shit about the well being of the detainees. 

I don't know. I want to know more. I hope the story is overblown. But we have a president who has referred to brown people from south of our border as "breeders" and if it turns out that there's some zealot doctor performing unnecessary sterilizations on those people for financial and ideological gain then we shouldn't be terribly shocked. 

We still have very limited reporting on the story. Given everything we've seen about how the Trump administration conducts business, and inspires a callous and racist view of migrants, it sounds easy to believe. But we have to be extra skeptical whenever we're presented with a thinly sourced story that just "feels" true. 

Yes they have the same standards - they may not follow them.  But again - it’s highly unlikely.  If you want to do a lot of procedures and bill a lot go to a well insured but poor town like factory towns in dying big industry cities.  Steel etc had great coverage for their blue collar workers.  Some surgeons who want to be very busy and run patients like a mill can crush it here.  You can also be a good surgeon and work in these places and do very well.  But the type of surgeon you discuss would be WAY better off in the type of scenario Im describing.  See the ENT doc from Merrillville, IN from American Greed.  

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4 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Just reading back through all the twitter highlights of last night.  Holy shit.  Just holy shit.

You'd better be doing that with a beer in your hand, sir. 

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53 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:
 

I'm sure all of the Trumpkins will conduct research and compare the size of the Democrat's stimulus bill to the one proposed by the Senate and come to the conclusion that Trump is full of shit here.  

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What we all (er, the non-MAGA folks) already know:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/09/16/abc-town-hall-shows-trump-faces-great-peril-outside-fox-news-bubble/

 

Quote

President Trump deigned to take hard questions at a town hall on Tuesday night, and the verdict of his propagandists is in: Trump was treated with hideous unfairness even as he managed to convert the spectacle into a triumph through sheer force of his forthrightness and deep benevolence.

After Trump appeared at the ABC News forum, which featured Pennsylvania voters questioning Trump, Fox News’s Laura Ingraham pronounced the affair an “ambush” that could have been staged by the Democratic National Committee. The Fox chyron read:

 

Quote

ABC SPRINGS AMBUSH ON PRES TRUMP AT TOWN HALL

This response, and the town hall itself, capture a larger truth about the moment. When Trump is not permitted to freely dissemble with abandon or coddled by an interviewer who treats his magnificence as a foundational premise — as he so often is on Fox — he is actually very bad at answering difficult questions about his performance.

The notion that this spectacle constituted an “ambush” underscores the point: If this felt like a surprise attack, it’s only because direct and persistent questioning about his towering failures and broken promises really are politically damaging to him.

 

Quote

The questions from voters and moderator George Stephanopoulos were pointed, but they were largely premised on basic facts about Trump’s presidency. Over and over, Trump tried to lie away those facts, but (and this is the rare part) he was then pressed with follow-up questions based on more facts.

For instance, one woman asked Trump why he downplayed the coronavirus. When he repeated his frequent lie that he didn’t downplay it (he did, endlessly), she responded that he had admitted downplaying it himself, which he did in fact admit to Bob Woodward.

When Trump claimed our coronavirus mortality rate shows we have done “very well” compared to other countries, Stephanopoulous produced a chart debunking the claim, and pointed out that we have 4 percent of the world’s population and more than 20 percent of cases and deaths.

 

Spoiler

Trump spewed lots of other coronavirus nonsense, as Post fact-checker Glenn Kessler documents: He falsely claimed he’d inherited a ventilator shortage, absurdly blamed our high cases on testing (another area of national failure), and dramatically overstated the impact of his China travel restrictions (his weeks of dithering let the virus rampage here after that).

But some of the most damaging moments of all concerned health care.

After a woman with a preexisting condition pointedly asked Trump how he’d protect people like her, a remarkable exchange followed, in which Stephanopoulos pointed out that the Affordable Care Act contains extensive such protections, that Trump has repeatedly tried to repeal it, and that he supports a lawsuit that would wipe it out right now.

Trump kept saying over and over that he has his own secret health-care plan. But as Stephanopoulos noted, Trump has been promising a plan for a very long time, and it hasn’t materialized.

The whole exchange is worth watching and should loom large in the remainder of the campaign:


“I have it all ready, and it’s a much better plan,” Trump insisted, demonstrating a level of contempt for the intelligence of voters that countless of them will find insulting. But, notably, Trump was pushed to this point of self-incriminating absurdity by hard questions.

To top it all off, Trump again insisted the coronavirus will go away, and actually said the public will develop a “herd mentality,” when he meant herd immunity. That not only hints at his contempt for voters; it also demonstrated — along with that health-care exchange — his lack of real answers to our most pressing challenges.

Yet, after all this, Trump’s pollster told Ingraham that Trump had “answered those questions,” while hailing him for demonstrating “empathy.” That was a reference to an exchange in which Trump showed the bare minimum of humanity toward a woman who’d lost her mother — before abruptly pivoting to blaming China!

But Ingraham appeared to understand how damaging this had been. Baffled, she likened the questioning to the work of the “Trump resistance,” and asked: “Why did the president decide to do this?”

Yes, why did Trump expose himself to difficult questions about his record from voters, anyway? Didn’t he know in advance how risky this could be?

Remember, Trump himself believes he’s entitled to his very own 24/7 propaganda network that doesn’t commit such heresies. When Fox News lapses from its role in that regard, which it sometimes does, Trump rages at it as a form of profound betrayal.

Indeed, last year a Fox anchor felt compelled to respond to Trump’s fury over this by clarifying, “Mr. President, we don’t work for you,” while admitting that many Trump supporters had come to expect and demand that the network show absolute fealty to him.

In a way, the Tuesday night town hall really was an ambush. It was an ambush of facts and follow-up questions that blew more big holes in the protective shield his propagandists have tried to construct around a record of extraordinary failure.

 

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/09/15/trumps-abc-news-town-hall-four-pinocchios-over-over-again/?hpid=hp_no-name_9a-wed-fact-checker%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

 

Quote

At the ABC News town hall Tuesday night, President Trump was challenged by ordinary voters in ways that he rarely experiences in the safe spaces of Fox News, where he regularly answers questions. But he still retreated to false or misleading talking points that he offers in his usual venues. Here’s a quick tour through 24 claims made at the Philadelphia town hall, in the order in which he answered questions.

Spoiler

“We’re very close to having the vaccine. If you want to know the truth, the previous administration would have taken perhaps years to have a vaccine because of the FDA and all the approvals, and we’re within weeks of getting it. You know, could be three weeks, four weeks, but we think we have it.”

Most experts believe a scientifically credible vaccine for the novel coronavirus will not be available until at least early 2021, and vaccine manufacturers insist they will not be rushed for political considerations. In any case, it will take months to make a safe vaccine available to most Americans. Trump has no basis to claim the Obama administration would have been slower, given how poorly the Trump administration ramped up coronavirus testing.

 
“If you look at what we’ve done compared to other countries, with the excess mortality, the excess mortality rate, we’ve done very, very well.”

Trump can cherry-pick whatever numbers he wants, but as moderator George Stephanopoulos pointed out, the United States ranks poorly compared to its peers on most measures of the coronavirus.

 

“We were short on ventilators because the cupboards were bare when we took it over.”

This is a Four-Pinocchio claim. When the new coronavirus emerged, the Strategic National Stockpile held 16,660 working ventilators, which turned out to be enough to deal with the initial surge of the pandemic, according to the Department of Health and Human Services. (Almost 11,000 were distributed to states.) HHS said that the number available in March 2020 was essentially the same number as of January 2017, when President Barack Obama left office.

 

“We have 20 percent of the cases [in the world] because of the fact that we do much more testing. If we wouldn’t do testing, you wouldn’t have cases. You would have very few cases.”

This is a nonsensical statement. The number of coronavirus cases rose in the United States because the disease has been spreading for months, abetted in part by a lax and inconsistent response from U.S. political leaders. As of mid-2020, the total number of new weekly cases had been rising, and the rate of positive test results also was increasing.

Without testing, the scope of the pandemic would be unclear and hospitals and doctors would not be able to prepare. Ending testing would not end the spread of the disease. “When the virus is under control, testing doesn’t uncover more cases. It’s a tool for keeping the epidemic at bay,” said former Food and Drug Administration commissioner Scott Gottlieb.

 

“I read where other people said do it. No people that I saw said do it. And I know they said security advisers and others — I put a ban on when it wasn’t at all popular. Joe Biden said I was xenophobic because I put the ban on, and I thought that was a very unfair — and by the way he’s totally taken that back. But I’m not sure he knows what it means.”

The president frequently claims he took bold action that was criticized. News reports say he was reluctant to impose the ban, citing his relationship with Chinese leader Xi Jinping, but the action was urged by his top health advisers. Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar told reporters on Feb. 7: “The travel restrictions that we put in place in consultation with the president were very measured and incremental. These were the uniform recommendations of the career public health officials here at HHS.”

Any criticism was scattered and relatively muted. Trump points to a comment by former vice president Joe Biden — “This is no time for Donald Trump’s record of hysteria and xenophobia … and fearmongering to lead the way instead of science” — but Biden says that did not refer to the travel restrictions.

 

 

“No, no. I didn’t say one way or the other. I’m not saying one way or the other.”

Trump falsely denied he played down the coronavirus. He did so for at least six weeks before the rising caseload made the problem impossible to ignore.
 

“So I didn’t say anything bad about President Xi initially, because nobody knew much about the disease. Nobody knew the seniors are susceptible. They thought people would be susceptible — but not just — you know the seniors are really a very, very endangered group of people, especially if they have problems with hearts or diabetes or any of that.”

Taped interviews recorded by Washington Post associate editor Bob Woodward show that Trump knew how dangerous the coronavirus was by Feb. 7.

 

“Well, I didn’t downplay it. I actually — in many ways I up-played it in terms of action. My action was very strong. Yes, because what I did was, with China — I put a ban on with Europe, I put a ban on. And we would have lost thousands of more people, had I not put the ban on.”

On Jan. 31, the president announced that effective Feb. 2, non-U.S. citizens were barred from traveling from China, but there were 11 exceptions. Meanwhile, U.S. citizens and permanent residents could still travel from China but were subject to screening and a possible 14-day quarantine. Trump’s action did not take place in a vacuum. Many airlines were canceling flights, and by our count, at least 38 countries took similar action before or at the same time the U.S. restrictions were put in place.

Meanwhile, Trump also touts his restrictions on travel from Europe as effective. But a Washington Post examination found that his abrupt decision led to one final viral infusion before the country was forced to shut down. “The lapses surrounding the spread from Europe stand alongside other breakdowns — in developing diagnostic tests, securing protective gear and imposing social distancing guidelines — as reasons the United States became so overwhelmed,” The Post reported. “The travel mayhem was triggered by many of the same problems that plagued the U.S. response to the pandemic from the outset: Early warnings were missed or ignored. Coordination was chaotic or nonexistent. Key agencies fumbled their assignments. Trump’s errant statements undermined his administration’s plans and endangered the public.”

Trump announced his restrictions on parts of Europe on March 11, more than a month after restrictions on non-U.S. citizens coming from China. In point of fact, Trump announced a bar on the entry of foreign nationals from the Schengen Area, the European Union’s border-free travel zone, a 26-nation region that does not include Britain, Ireland or 21 other European countries, including Croatia, Serbia, Romania, Ukraine and Russia. He later extended the restrictions to the United Kingdom and Ireland.

 
“The fact is, we created the greatest economy in the history of the world.”

Before the coronavirus pandemic shuttered businesses and sent unemployment soaring, the president could certainly brag about the state of the economy in his first three years as president. But he ran into trouble when he made a play for the history books to say it was the best economy in U.S. history. By just about any important measure, the economy under Trump did not do as well as it did under Presidents Dwight D. Eisenhower, Lyndon B. Johnson or Bill Clinton. The gross domestic product grew at an annual rate of 2.3 percent in 2019, slipping from 2.9 percent in 2018 and 2.4 percent in 2017. But in 1997, 1998 and 1999, GDP grew 4.5 percent, 4.5 percent and 4.7 percent, respectively. Yet even that period paled in comparison against the 1950s and 1960s. Growth between 1962 and 1966 ranged from 4.4 percent to 6.6 percent. In postwar 1950 and 1951, it was 8.7 percent and 8 percent, respectively. Meanwhile, the unemployment rate reached a low of 3.5 percent under Trump, but it dipped as low as 2.5 percent in 1953. (After the virus tanked the economy, Trump jacked up his claim even more, falsely saying it had been the greatest economy in the history of the world.)

 

 

“Nancy Pelosi was standing in the streets of Chinatown in San Francisco late — a month — more than a month after that — saying this thing’s totally exaggerated.”

Another Four-Pinocchio claim. Under fire for reacting too slowly to the coronavirus pandemic, Trump has tried to turn the tables and repeatedly argue House Speaker Pelosi (D-Calif.) was slower than he was, repeatedly citing a visit Pelosi made to San Francisco’s Chinatown on Feb. 24. He has accused her of causing many deaths, when there have been relatively few in San Francisco. He says she urged street fairs and parades, but that’s not true. She advocated patronage of Chinese businesses. In terms of suggesting he took the crisis seriously and she did not, that’s a stretch. Contrary to Trump’s claim, she never suggested the virus did not exist or the problem was exaggerated. In Chinatown, she urged people to take precautions and to be vigilant. A day later, she called for a broader, more forceful response. The president, meanwhile, continued with happy talk for at least two weeks afterward.
 

“Rudy Giuliani did a fantastic job. The city was safe, and then all of a sudden we have a mayor who starts cutting the police force and crime is up 100 percent, 150 percent.”

Major crimes are down under New York Mayor Bill de Blasio (D). There has been a jump in murders in 2020, but the annual number of murders under de Blasio has been about half as high as it was in Giuliani’s best year, according to FactCheck.org.

 
“So I just saw a poll where African Americans in this country, Black communities, are 81 percent in favor of having more police.”

Actually, Trump is confused. A Gallup poll conducted from June 23 to July 6 of more than 36,000 U.S. adults found that 20 percent of Black Americans would like more police, while 61 percent said they would like police to spend the same amount of time in their community. That does, however, add up to 81 percent.

 

“We are not going to hurt anything having to do with preexisting conditions. We’re not going to hurt preexisting conditions.”

Four Pinocchios again! Trump regularly, but falsely, claims that he and the Republicans would keep provisions in the Affordable Care Act that protect people with preexisting health conditions. But the House and Senate GOP plans backed by Trump likely would have resulted in higher costs for people with preexisting conditions in some states, according to the Congressional Budget Office. The Trump administration also refused to defend the Affordable Care Act against a lawsuit that would end protection for preexisting conditions, putting the entire law at risk, and later asked the Supreme Court to strike down the entire act, actively seeking to end the guarantee for patients with preexisting conditions. The Trump administration, meanwhile, has issued new rules that promote the use of low-quality, short-term plans that were prohibited under the ACA. These plans typically don’t have the same protections for people with existing health conditions, allowing insurance companies to deny coverage or charge higher prices.

 

“I got rid of the individual mandate, which is the worst part of Obamacare. … It’d pertain to a lot of people, where they were going literally bust because they didn’t want to have health insurance, and they were paying for it anyway, and it was no good.”

Going bust? Not really. According to a Jan. 9, 2017, letter from IRS Commissioner John Koskinen to Congress, only 6.5 million taxpayers paid the “shared responsibility” payments in 2015. That’s actually a decrease from 2014, when 8 million taxpayers made a payment. The payments in 2015 totaled about $3 billion, with the average payment about $470.

 

“Stocks are owned by everybody. … They — if people held onto their stocks — and remember this, because I notice you say wealthy, sure wealthy — but you have people that aren’t wealthy but have done well because of the stock market.”

Maybe everyone Trump knows owns stocks. But only 55 percent of Americans have any investments in the stock market, according to a Gallup poll, which is a decline from before the Great Recession.

 

“If Joe Biden ever got in, I think you’d have a depression the likes of which we have never seen in this country. If you look at his policies, where he wants to raise everybody’s taxes.”

Biden’s tax plan does not raise taxes on people making less than $400,000. Every analysis shows the tax increase would fall on the richest Americans.

 

“It’s easy, because I never made those statements. They were never made by me. They said I stood over the grave of soldiers killed many years ago and I said they were suckers. I never made that — do you know we had 26 people as of today come out to say it never happened — and many people were there.”

We examined closely the list of people denying the story in the Atlantic that Trump called war dead “losers” and “suckers,” and there is less than meets the eye to their statements.

 

“As far as John McCain, I was never a fan of John McCain. I never thought he treated our vets well, he didn’t do the job.”

Trump routinely takes false credit for passing the Veterans Access, Choice and Accountability Act, which was shepherded through Congress by senator McCain (R-Ariz.) in 2014.

 

“I rebuilt our military. Our military, when I came into this great office, our military was depleted. It was in the worst shape it was in probably ever. It was depleted. The planes were old and broken, the ships, everything. You see what I’ve done. I’ve rebuilt — $2.5 trillion and you think that was easy getting that money from Democrats?”

Trump often falsely claims he has “rebuilt” the U.S. military. The military budget had declined in recent years, as a result of decreases in funding for Overseas Contingency Operations as both the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan came to a close, not because it has been so gravely depleted. Trump frequently says his military budgets are the biggest in history, but adjusted for inflation, his administration’s budgets lag some years during the height of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The biggest defense budget was in 2010, and in inflation-adjusted dollars it is nearly 10 percent larger than Trump’s 2020 budget.

As for the $2.5 trillion, Trump is adding up three fiscal years of military funding, but the money is not all spent, only a portion of it is destined for new equipment, and the equipment is not all built. The current fiscal year began only a few months before Trump began to make this statement. The actual amount spent on military equipment since he became president is much less, about $444 billion in constant dollars, or about 20 percent of the total. The rest was spent on things like personnel, operations and maintenance, and research and development. Trump’s spending on military equipment is not particularly new or unusual.

 

“Mattis was a highly overrated general, didn’t do a good job, didn’t do good on ISIS. I took over 100 percent of the ISIS caliphate.”

Jim Mattis is a highly respected general who resigned as defense secretary at the end of 2018 in frustration with Trump, about three months before the ISIS caliphate was ended. The job was largely complete.

Meanwhile, Obama set up virtually all the structure that did the key fighting against the Islamic State under Trump, and more fighters trained and munitions dropped under Obama than under Trump. Under Obama, all Iraqi cities (with exception of the western half of Mosul) held by ISIS — such as eastern Mosul, Fallujah, Ramadi, Tikrit — were retaken by end of his term, as was much of northeastern strip of Syria along Turkish border. The basic plan of attack in 2017 was also developed under Obama, although Trump sped up the tempo by changing the rules of engagement.

 

“We’ve spent $8 trillion and we’ve lost thousands of lives but really millions of lives because I view both sides.”

Four Pinocchios yet again. Trump started making a version of this claim shortly after taking office, first claiming $6 trillion but then quickly elevating it to $7 trillion and now $8 trillion. Trump acts as if the money has been spent, but he is referring to a study that included estimates of future obligations through 2056 for veterans’ care. The study combines data for both President George W. Bush’s war in Iraq (2003) and the war in Afghanistan (2001), which is in Central/South Asia not the Middle East, as well as homeland security spending. The cost of the combined wars will probably surpass $7 trillion by 2056, when interest on the debt is considered, almost four decades from now.

 

“It [invasion of Iraq] was the worst mistake, the most costly mistake in the history of our country going into the Middle East.”

It was a mistake Trump supported. We searched high and low — as did other reporters — and there is no evidence Trump was an opponent of the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, let alone a vocal one. In fact, he offered lukewarm support. When Howard Stern asked if he supported invading Iraq, Trump replied, “Yeah, I guess so. You know, I wish the first time it was done correctly.” In another interview on Fox News, two months before the invasion, he said Bush had to make a decision: “Either you attack or you don’t attack.” Shortly after the invasion, he again told Fox News: “It looks like a tremendous success from a military standpoint.”

Not until August 2004, in an interview with Esquire, did Trump publicly express opposition to the war. By then — 17 months after the invasion — many Americans had turned against the war, making Trump’s position not particularly unique. Four Pinocchios yet again.

 

“Unfortunately, this [in Minneapolis] went on for a week or a week and a half before he allowed us to bring in the National Guard. When we brought in the National Guard, everything stopped, the crime was gone meaning the whole thing. But by that time a big portion of the city was burned down.”

Trump falsely suggests he had something to do with the decision to send the National Guard into Minneapolis amid violence and protests of the killing of George Floyd in police custody. Gov. Tim Walz, a Democrat, had already directed hundreds of guard members to assemble. Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey officially requested troops on May 28. Then Walz — not Trump — activated the entire 15,000 member Minnesota National Guard. Trump just watched the scene unfold on television, and called Walz, offering to send in military.

 

“In Seattle, we let them know we’re coming in. They took over a big chunk of the city, 20 percent of the city. We said we’re coming in. As soon as we said that, the police department went in and these other people were exhausted. But had we not said we’re going in — we were ready to go in. We were going in the following morning.”

Protesters took over roughly a six-block area in Seattle — hardly a “big chunk” or 20 percent.

Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan (D) flatly denied to The Washington Post’s PlumLine that any conversation like this with Trump — or anyone around him — ever took place. “He never contacted me or my office to warn us,” Durkan said, adding that no one from the White House and no one connected to Trump had told them any such thing. “We had no conversations whatsoever with the White House about anything related to the protests, Capitol Hill, or anything along these lines,” Durkan said, though conversations related to the coronavirus had taken place at various junctures. “It just never happened,” Durkan said. “I don’t know what world he’s living in.” The mayor had signed an executive order on June 30 to formally close the area and on July 1 police moved in to clear it.

 

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Considering that Trump says the same lies over and over, hopefully the debate moderators will come prepared. And we'll hear "actually Mr. President, that's a lie" about 50 times.

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35 minutes ago, RPM said:

If you question Dear Leader it's treason and sedition. America First!

Kim and Putin have it soooo easy, if someone goes against their message an execution will soon follow !

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13 hours ago, TexEx15 said:

 

I'm glad to see this. I know they ran this reporter after the convention as well. No more "misrepresentation of the facts;" they're dirty lies, and they come in a flood. TV news should have been doing this from the beginning, but I'll give CNN credit for adapting to some degree.

It's not that I think many people will be swayed by this, but a news organization needs to be be very clear about what is provably true and what is clearly a lie. If you pussyfoot around any lie that you broadcast, even a quote, you slide towards complicity. 

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14 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

Kim and Putin have it soooo easy, if someone goes against their message an execution will soon follow !

same here, only it'll be a bubba with a gun

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I'm still pissed at Biden for not implementing his national mask mandate, and fuck him for not unilaterally imposing sanctions on Russia for __________________________________ (fill in the blank with anything over the past 45-months). 

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5 hours ago, Lobo said:

Man!  Somebody please help us out on this.  There was a press conference in the Rose Garden sometime between April & July.  And it was Trump "trying" to thank some pharma companies.  There was a well-circulated clip for just a few days, and I wish it had stuck as one of his biggest f'ups.  But it was him for about 30 seconds trying to pronounce some corporate names (not Rx drug names because those are a legit pain in the ass) that were aiding in the fight against Covid-19.  And it was just him with a lateral lisp and drooling for about 30 seconds as he fucked up every single word as not even his security detail noticed he was having a mild TIA.  Anybody remember what I'm talking about?  It was posted on this site, but not this thread...and only once or twice and then got no publicity about it.  My wife and her colleagues, all terminally degreed Speech-Language Pathologists, all agreed that was his moment of showing he has some neurological issues.  Not just old age, but legit brain shit going down (my words, not theirs).  

Anybody remember what I'm talking about?  It was by far the most damming piece of footage I've ever seen of him to prove his cognitive decline. Not even Man Woman Camera TV Poop could save him from that.  It's fucking hard as hell to find because you google "Trump not making sense verbally" and next thing you know...your grandchildren are born.  

It was one of the first three COVID press conferences, if not the first. I remember watching it and I quickly stopped stopped watching the Donny Show.

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Yeah, it was very early on.  And he was flanked by some Big Pharma C-level folks on both sides.  And it was his usual meandering "syntax", but then he went into a thing about companies working together to combat the virus.  And it just took a surreal turn, he was just drooling and struggling through basic syllable constructs.  It was the worst I've ever seen him, and that's saying something, but it was only about 30-60 seconds of truly cringe-worthy shit.  And I just can't find it anymore.  And I only saw it originally because somebody on this site posted it.  But it's impossible to search for. 

My almost 51-year old mentally retarded sister, after several beers, sounds more eloquent than Trump does on most days.  I know that hurts the feelings of many Trump voters, but then---she won't vote for Trump despite peer pressure from some of my pro-Trump family members because, and I quote her, "He sounds like me."  

Edited by Lobo

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3 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

But it isn't a hospital. It's a private prison. Are we sure they have the same standards? I'd bet strongly against it. If the doctor gets to bill LaSalle Corrections for every procedure then he might be inclined to perform unnecessary procedures, especially in an atmosphere of limited oversight where no one in the hierarchy really gives a shit about the well being of the detainees. 

I don't know. I want to know more. I hope the story is overblown. But we have a president who has referred to brown people from south of our border as "breeders" and if it turns out that there's some zealot doctor performing unnecessary sterilizations on those people for financial and ideological gain then we shouldn't be terribly shocked. 

We still have very limited reporting on the story. Given everything we've seen about how the Trump administration conducts business, and inspires a callous and racist view of migrants, it sounds easy to believe. But we have to be extra skeptical whenever we're presented with a thinly sourced story that just "feels" true. 

 Ok its not a hospital but the point stands.  There is no “lone wolf” ob-gyn doing hysterectomies by himself.  There is a team of med professionals including other docs like the anesthesiologists and highly skilled nurses and scrub techs.  Sure, I guess they could all be fucked up psychopaths who turn a blind eye but seems highly unlikely if you know how things work in medicine.  There is ALWAYS, and I mean always a nurse or tech looking for a reason to turn you in for some perceived slight, much less crimes against humanity. 

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mpu


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