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Pokoloco

Company deducting stimulus money from pay

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I guess this is legal, not ethical for sure but.. just wanted to hear some thoughts on this..

The company just sent out an "emergency compensation" form they want us to sign that contains this condition.

1.Employee acknowledges and agrees to a temporary compensation reduction in line with the assistance it receives from the federal government related to the COVID-19 pandemic.  Employee's base compensation rate will not be changed immediately but, to the extent that the federal government passes relief legislation that provides direct assistance to individuals, employee's compensation will be reduced by: (a) 100% of the government distribution for the individual; and (b) 50% of the government distribution for any dependent that the individual claims.

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So basically, an employee who has one dependent will receive $1700 in stimulus from the government ($1200 + $500 for the kid), the company will deduct $1450 from your paycheck.

 

 

 

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this is so wrong. i hope the final version of the bill has wording which precludes this.  

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17 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

this is so wrong. i hope the final version of the bill has wording which precludes this.  

Then they'll just fire more people I guess.  They've already cut 120.

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The hell industry/field and company size is pulling this? Ballllllsy (one word for it)

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Doesn’t sound real. What’s the business logic behind this anyway? What would it matter to my company if I won the lottery even? 

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Posted (edited)

I guess this particular business is continuing to pay workers despite not working?  That's the only logic I can understand for doing this.  Even then it's pretty shitty

Edited by Gene Parmesan

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If one considers the payments as a sort of unemployment compensation, and the company continues to employ you and pay you at full rate, then this might be justifiable.

But it's clearly not unemployment compensation.  It's intended to be a windfall to increase security and promote spending.  This is very, very wrong.

 

 

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53 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Doesn’t sound real. What’s the business logic behind this anyway? What would it matter to my company if I won the lottery even? 

It's real.  It's a family owned business, with locations in 6 states.  They're just in full panic doing what they can to stay open.  

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1 hour ago, UTPhil2006 said:

Spill the beans on the company

I can't. Been here 21 years I need to keep working. After this shakes out there will be plenty of opportunities elsewhere, for now I need to stay employed.

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I guess in some ways it's no different than a pay reduction, which they would be entitled to do.  If they are having trouble keeping the doors open, it's forgivable.

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Isn’t the stimulus just an advance on next years taxes?  I thought that was what I read today.  Shitty behavior from a company.

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1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

If they are having trouble keeping the doors open, it's forgivable.

You and I think differently. The government is giving SBA loans for exactly this situation.

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2 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

You and I think differently. The government is giving SBA loans for exactly this situation.

Perhaps if there were enough SBA loans to go around.  I rather doubt that there are.  But a valid point.

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Posted (edited)

Tell them you aren't consenting to shit. If you want to cut my pay, just do it. Don't ask me to "consent" to you fucking me over.

Edit: maybe this has to do with a contract of some type, but still. What a dick move. I'm not a lawyer but I doubt they have any legal right to know how much compensation, if any, you receive. 

 

 

Edited by Paper_jam

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Pokoloco said:

I guess this is legal, not ethical for sure but.. just wanted to hear some thoughts on this..

The company just sent out an "emergency compensation" form they want us to sign that contains this condition.

1.Employee acknowledges and agrees to a temporary compensation reduction in line with the assistance it receives from the federal government related to the COVID-19 pandemic.  Employee's base compensation rate will not be changed immediately but, to the extent that the federal government passes relief legislation that provides direct assistance to individuals, employee's compensation will be reduced by: (a) 100% of the government distribution for the individual; and (b) 50% of the government distribution for any dependent that the individual claims.

---

So basically, an employee who has one dependent will receive $1700 in stimulus from the government ($1200 + $500 for the kid), the company will deduct $1450 from your paycheck.

 

 

 

seems like bullshit.  There are measures in the bill to protect employers, as well.

 

It is essentially a tax-cut.  Your tax bill to Uncle Sam has zero to do with your employer, beyond withholding;  unless it's your wife or something.  Then this thread would be funny as fuck.

Sadly, i don't think it is...

Edited by Iceman

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Posted (edited)

 

 

Holy shit, the balls they need too have to try that.  We're gonna take some of the money the gov't is giving you ?

Unknown.jpeg

Time to hire this guy.

Edited by Onboard 2.0

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Damn that's fucked up. I have wondered if this was coming. My gf company closed for 2 weeks but is gonna pay everyone normally for that time and I would imagine that shit ass company would try something like this l. 

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Don’t the covid checks stop at $100k. Surely no one on this site makes less than that so just let them know you aren’t expecting a covid check and you are good to go.

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1 hour ago, davidg said:

Don’t the covid checks stop at $100k. Surely no one on this site makes less than that so just let them know you aren’t expecting a covid check and you are good to go.

Yea, I was thinking, how they gonna know how much you might make ok the side, or how much your wife makes.  I'd tell them your wife makes 200k and you didn't get shit from Uncle Sam.

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Yea, I was thinking, how they gonna know how much you might make ok the side, or how much your wife makes.  I'd tell them your wife makes 200k and you didn't get shit from Uncle Sam.
This

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Yea, I was thinking, how they gonna know how much you might make ok the side, or how much your wife makes.  I'd tell them your wife makes 200k and you didn't get shit from Uncle Sam.


That.

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2 hours ago, Quagmire said:

That’s beyond fucked up, the owners are Jewish right ?

Dude.  Not funny. 

OP's employer is pretty ballsy.  I'm not saying the relief act isn't needed (I think it is with stipulations) but free money rolling around will hatch many a scheme. 

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This clearly isn’t the popular opinion here, but I can definitely see the companies thought process. As someone that is trying to keep 250 people on the payroll without layoffs, that $750k or so reduction in payroll would definitely help us out and essentially the employee is net neutral. I’m not going to do it, but I see the thought process.

You are going to end up with unemployment in the 10’s of millions, but people complain about a company trying to keep people employed but asking the employees to take some of the hit. It would be much simpler to just start processing layoffs.

For those that have mentioned SBA, there is no guarantee the business qualifies.

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The company should be getting some sort of relief from the government, just like you. Put them on blast, send to local news or post here/reddit. Chances are they aren’t the only company trying to pull that crap and you’d be helping more than yourself.

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If it comes to fruition, at least do whatever makes more sense for you tax-wise.  I understand the side of the business, but that's pretty chickenshit imo.  Especially for a 20 year employee.

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7 hours ago, Brew said:

This clearly isn’t the popular opinion here, but I can definitely see the companies thought process. As someone that is trying to keep 250 people on the payroll without layoffs, that $750k or so reduction in payroll would definitely help us out and essentially the employee is net neutral. I’m not going to do it, but I see the thought process.

You are going to end up with unemployment in the 10’s of millions, but people complain about a company trying to keep people employed but asking the employees to take some of the hit. It would be much simpler to just start processing layoffs.

For those that have mentioned SBA, there is no guarantee the business qualifies.

There are remedies for businesses in the bill.

 

The move is a double dip, and unethical as hell.

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I can see how this occurs.  The owner’s family and other top execs are pissed that they are getting nothing from the govt personally because of their salary levels. Then they realize that every employee, that they’re underpaying, is getting $1200+ from the govt. time to turn over all of the govt benefits so we can make payroll, especially upper mgmt.

I suppose a company can legally decide to lower your salary whenever they want but this is screwed up given the circumstances.

i would inform HR that because of income unrelated to your job, you’re not receiving any stimulus benefits from the govt. if they ask to see past tax returns to prove it, i would create a fake 2018 tax return because screw them. 

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2 hours ago, Iceman said:

There are remedies for businesses in the bill.

 

The move is a double dip, and unethical as hell.

The remedies are a lot different depending on whether you are over 500 employees or under 500 employees. Clearly the smarter move would have been to just come out and say we’re cutting payroll and hours 20% while this is going on.

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40 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I can see how this occurs.  The owner’s family and other top execs are pissed that they are getting nothing from the govt personally because of their salary levels. Then they realize that every employee, that they’re underpaying, is getting $1200+ from the govt. time to turn over all of the govt benefits so we can make payroll, especially upper mgmt.

I would have a hard time believing in this environment it’s got anything to do with them being pissed. I would think it’s got more to do with survival and trying to keep everyone on the payroll. They may have gone the wrong direction with their plan, but business owners are scrambling/scared right now because of how unprecedented this is. While everyone is enjoying hanging out with their kids and taking time off, we’re trying to figure out how to make payroll, note payments, etc. I don’t know what industry the OP is in but some are better/worse than others.

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1 minute ago, Brew said:

I would have a hard time believing in this environment it’s got anything to do with them being pissed. I would think it’s got more to do with survival and trying to keep everyone on the payroll. They may have gone the wrong direction with their plan, but business owners are scrambling/scared right now because of how unprecedented this is. While everyone is enjoying hanging out with their kids and taking time off, we’re trying to figure out how to make payroll, note payments, etc. I don’t know what industry the OP is in but some are better/worse than others.

At the end of the day, intent doesn’t matter if you’re taking money away from people that need it. Why not deduct $1200 from everyone including people making over 100k? 

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20 hours ago, Pokoloco said:

I guess this is legal, not ethical for sure but.. just wanted to hear some thoughts on this..

Do you trust your wife?

spacer.png

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Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

At the end of the day, intent doesn’t matter if you’re taking money away from people that need it. Why not deduct $1200 from everyone including people making over 100k? 

What is the perceived need if he is still working and getting paid the same thing? If his wife is laid off, sure there is a need. Most people that are working are going to be better off in a month than other times because they are all hunkered down and not leaving the house spending money. This bill wasn’t passed to necessarily help those in need, it was passed to give everyone a boost when things open back up. You get the same thing being laid off that you do if both are still working which is the problem with the whole thing.

Clearly, they would have been better off just doing a rolling additional temporary 10%+ pay cut but that wouldn’t have been popular either. Not all employers are the evil empire or a bunch of multi millionaires, a lot are making rash decisions right now to try and come out the other side. In the case of this one, they clearly looked in the wrong place and will probably backpedal at some point. Depending on size it may end up being detrimental to them with other provisions in this bill.

Edited by Brew

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45 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

At the end of the day, intent doesn’t matter if you’re taking money away from people that need it. Why not deduct $1200 from everyone including people making over 100k? 

You first ........I admire your courage, and self sacrifice.

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2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

And how fucking generous of them to “let” you keep half of the funds meant to assist your child.

It's because they couldn't bring themselves to take his wife's money, too.

 

1 hour ago, Brew said:

Most people that are working are going to be better off in a month than other times because they are all hunkered down and not leaving the house spending money.

Negative.  Takeout has gone thru the roof due to very limited groceries (thanks hoarders) and not working.  Many of us can go months not paying for a lunch with all the vendors hunting work.  Now I'm buying my own and trying to keep proper rations at the house.  It's not going to be a huge amount of money lost, but I'm definitely not home just stacking cash by not burning diesel, which  my company pays for anyhow.  Daycare doesn't stop, or you lose your spots (3) when it's time to go back.  Wife no longer gets mileage so while it's a gas "savings", we were way ahead as long as she was over 6 mpg.  Lot's of "little" changes, but I'm not confident at all that we will come out ahead on the deal.

 

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

At the end of the day, intent doesn’t matter if you’re taking money away from people that need it. Why not deduct $1200 from everyone including people making over 100k? 

 Exactly.  Accomplishes the same thing, and appears more equitable on the surface.  "Company wide cut" is more palatable than "give me yo free shit".

 

1 hour ago, Brew said:

Not all employers are the evil empire or a bunch of multi millionaires, a lot are making rash decisions right now to try and come out the other side. In the case of this one, they clearly looked in the wrong place and will probably backpedal at some point. Depending on size it may end up being detrimental to them with other provisions in this bill.

Well said.  Many small business owners, hell even larger enterprises, are in a tough spot right now.  

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20 hours ago, Helobious said:

Doesn’t sound real. What’s the business logic behind this anyway? What would it matter to my company if I won the lottery even? 

They'd like to have that money. 

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