Jump to content

Urban Meyer or bust


BurntOrange&White

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, nunna yo bizness said:

Serious question.  If you're seeing literally nothing are you sure they haven't cut you out of the distribution?

If for some reason they decided they needed to manage information closer, I could easily get the boot. Like I said, I’m not sure they even remember I’m on there bc the thread is under a group name. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, wood said:

Paging @TexasEx

Hah! Well, I was 4-5 bourbons deep when I made that comment but it is part of what I do. Not much you could read from this, other than it's obvious they discussed the situation before the show. While Meyer wasn't angry, he wasn't happy they brought it up. At first, I don't think he understood the "elephant in the zoo" comment to be referring to him and Texas. When he realized what they were laughing at, he went defensive, fake smile, shook his head, and looked down to gather his thoughts. His second reaction was chuckling, leaning back in his chair, and jabbing back at Quinn. Projecting confidence and trying to brush it off. The initial reaction suggests the issue of possibly joining Texas is/was real in his mind. If it wasn't, he probably would have skipped straight to the second reaction.

There was another exchange, I think later in the show, where someone (Stone?) mentioned "ulcers in Ohio," and Meyer said "what do you mean?" When he thought they were bringing up Texas he again went defensive until he realized they were talking about covid--not Meyer taking all of tOSU's corches and 'cruits.

I have no information, but given the way this has gone down so far, I tend to think Texas's discussions with Meyer are not over.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:


It’s insane because, in a vacuum, keeping Herman is the obviously logical move. There’s no obvious replacement (after Urban) and the buyouts are huge, especially during COVID times. But there’s no way that’s possible now without a fan/recruit revolt.

If money is the problem and Covid is a factor, UT should go the furlough route and shutdown mens fall sports with >20 person roster for 2021. FU CTH

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, DanTheHorn said:

I know I am going to get blasted for this one but I have had an idea for some time now regarding how we get UM even with his health concerns since we give him a job that does not require as much time and is less stressful but he would still get the credit for an NC. We make him Athletic Director of football operations for about $2M a year. He gets to hire the next HC and is responsible for identifying talent and helps recruit it when it is on campus. He rubs shoulders with BMDs and is basically QC for how program is run and a mentor to the coach. Basically a GM with his fingers in the pie. He hires a hungry guy like Kalen DeBoer that has won championships at a lower level an shows him how to be a blue blood coach.

Blast away with everything I have not thought thru

UM is already doing that job, indirectly, for tOSU as their Assistant AD.

I have no idea how much he's being paid in that role, though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Caddox said:

If for some reason they decided they needed to manage information closer, I could easily get the boot. Like I said, I’m not sure they even remember I’m on there bc the thread is under a group name. 

Did you happen to hear back from any of the other people you were going to reach out to?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, Rokotosh said:

1. Cheer for OSU to lose so we can accelerate the possibility of CUM hiring but Aggy gets into the CFP

2. Cheer for OSU so Aggy doesn't get into CFP.....

 

Confused Larry David GIF

Great 4th post. You don't usually see such greatness this early on from a young poster like this. This Rokotosh is showing real promise on surlyhorns.com.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Octavian said:

Did you happen to hear back from any of the other people you were going to reach out to?

One guy hadn’t heard anything and said he would ask. Another said he will know something tomorrow when he goes into work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BornAndRaised said:

For all the doomers on this board, heres a brief history lesson.

https://www.onlygators.com/11/20/2011/urban-meyer-to-ohio-state-the-timeline/

Though I do agree with Immamac that the optics look like complete trash right now, but does it really matter if Urban is the coach in January? This is a new breed of CFB with the 1year of eligibility bceause of covid, and the transfer portal. 

I know I already responded to this post, but I'm quoting it again because I think the timeline at the link is a must-read for anyone thinking this is over based on FCB reporting anything, esp in light of the silence from all parties since then, when no doubt news agencies have been blowing up their phones, seeking comment.

I'm just going to paste the whole article. Any of this sound familiar?

Spoiler

Rumors have been circulating seemingly since the day he stepped down from his post with the Florida Gators that Urban Meyer would return to being a college football head coach sooner than later. When Ohio State Buckeyes head coach Jim Tressel resigned on May 30, it appeared as if Meyer’s next destination was a certainty.

Throughout the last six months, Meyer has spent his time working as a college football analyst for ESPN, doing speaking engagements across the country, making appearances and spending time with his family. He has also – on numerous occasions – denied any specific intent on returning to coaching in 2012 though he has admitted more than once that he does miss carrying a whistle.


Over the last few days, however, the murmurs regarding Meyer’s future and Ohio State’s coaching situation have gotten louder. It appears inevitable to many that he will be donning the scarlet and grey sooner than later.

Here’s a look at a timeline of how things have shaken out since Tuesday:

» The New York Times published a story Tuesday noting that Meyer had met with Arizona athletic director Greg Byrne one week ago in Miami, FL to discuss his school’s coaching position. Meyer, according to the story, declined the opportunity but “expressed his desire to return to coaching.”

» Two days later, BuckeyeGrove.com writer Kyle Rowland tweeted the following: “Same plane that came from Gainesville to OSU airport was in Miami when Urban Meyer met with Univ. of Ariz. That meeting took place in Miami.”

» CBS Sports’ NFL insider Mike Freeman then referenced a report he read on Scout.com Thursday, tweeting that “Urban Meyer has agreed to coach OSU for 7 years, $35 million. If true, whoa.”

» After that began to circulate, Sports Illustrated’s Andy Staples attempted to set the record straight with a tweet of his own: “Spoke to someone who would know tonight and was told any report of a deal between Urban Meyer and Ohio State is untrue.”

» However, Buckeyes blog Eleven Warriors quickly took to Twitter to divulge what they had uncovered: “We are 99.7% sure Urban Meyer has agreed to a deal to become the next coach of Ohio State. Solid sources. Plural.”

» Shortly after, The Gainesville Sun’s Pat Dooley texted Meyer directly and asked him specifically about the rumor that he had accepted the OSU job. “No truth to it,” Meyer replied via text.


» Meyer’s wife Shelley also made a statement after being contacted by WCJB TV20 and asked if her husband had agreed to coach Ohio State. “No, he did not,” she told the station.

» SPORTSbyBROOKS then posted a full story about the Meyer situation Friday evening, reporting that a “deal between Meyer and Ohio State was consummated in principle earlier this week in Columbus but not signed.”

Brooks goes on to cite specifics of the agreement including a “generous compensation package” and a promise from the school to provide him with the ability to hire the “highest-paid assistant coaching staff in college football history.”

» Saturday morning, Associated Press writer Larry Lage asked Meyer about the deal. He declined comment. He also questioned ESPN analyst Chris Spielman (rumored by Brooks to be a future Meyer assistant) about the situation, and Spielman said there was no deal between Meyer and OSU.

» While doing color commentary for the Michigan-Nebraska game at noon, Meyer addressed the rumors on the air (video): “I know it’s that time of year. I’ve not been offered any job, and I’ve certainly not accepted any job,” he said.

» Minutes later, ESPN.com released its version of Brooks’s story, noting that “Ohio State has been in contact with Urban Meyer about becoming the school’s coach” but “no contract is in place and no announcement likely would be made until after the regular season.”

» UPDATE: Dooley had an extensive conversation with Meyer over the weekend about the rumors that he might return to coaching. Meyer denied reports of interviews with both Arizona and Ohio State but did say he would consider an offer from the latter institution. “I’m in a good place right now mentally and physically. So if something happens with Ohio State, I’ll have a decision to make,” Meyer said. “If there is a decision to be made concerning Ohio State, there will be a lot that will go into it. But right now, there is no decision to be made.”

He also noted that the three reasons he resigned from Florida will have to be taken into consideration before making any move. “The concerns are still there,” Meyer added. “No. 1 – my health. No. 2 – my family. No. 3 – the state of college football. I’ve done some research into the second one. I’ve found that it is possible to have balance between your job and your family, that there are coaches out there who are doing it.”

It is not surprising that Ohio State and Meyer would both want to wait until the end of the 2011 regular season before announcing any type of agreement. Doing so in-season would be disrespectful to both interim head coach Luke Fickell and Meyer’s current employer. That is, of course, unless there truly is nothing to announce, which appears to be less and less likely as things progress regardless of Meyer’s denials.

The last update there was on November 21. Urban was announced as the new tOSU HC on November 28. He denied the whole thing all the way, with emphasis being placed throughout on his health and his family, and with reporters emphasizing his apparent desire to be respectful to Florida's program and coaches. The whole thing reads eerily similarly to what we've heard so far in this case.

Edited by wood
  • Hook 'Em 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Caddox said:

One guy hadn’t heard anything and said he would ask. Another said he will know something tomorrow when he goes into work.

Given how many head fakes there were in Urban's OSU hiring and how they waited until the season was over, it's hard to completely let this one go. Thanks for checking.

Edited by Octavian
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Caddox said:

If for some reason they decided they needed to manage information closer, I could easily get the boot. Like I said, I’m not sure they even remember I’m on there bc the thread is under a group name. 

1) What is the name of the group chat? and

2) I will give you $5 to rename it something funny.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, CenTex Hill Billy said:

The missing last paragraph

 

 

BRAV-FUCKING-VO.. This is the Shit I am talking. Now we are getting into the REALLY good deep made up shit from insider sources. I like when guys really sit back and write out the made up thoughts and scenarios, all this "Urban can't because of his health" shit is sooooo 2008. Time to get deeper in the storytelling and this one is a damn good start. My boner meter is at like a 5, so basically I have a good Halfie.

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, wood said:

I know I already responded to this post, but I'm quoting it again because I think the timeline at the link is a must-read for anyone thinking this is over based on FCB reporting anything, esp in light of the silence from all parties since then, when no doubt news agencies have been blowing up their phones, seeking comment.

I'm just going to paste the whole article. Any of this sound familiar?

  Reveal hidden contents

Rumors have been circulating seemingly since the day he stepped down from his post with the Florida Gators that Urban Meyer would return to being a college football head coach sooner than later. When Ohio State Buckeyes head coach Jim Tressel resigned on May 30, it appeared as if Meyer’s next destination was a certainty.

Throughout the last six months, Meyer has spent his time working as a college football analyst for ESPN, doing speaking engagements across the country, making appearances and spending time with his family. He has also – on numerous occasions – denied any specific intent on returning to coaching in 2012 though he has admitted more than once that he does miss carrying a whistle.


Over the last few days, however, the murmurs regarding Meyer’s future and Ohio State’s coaching situation have gotten louder. It appears inevitable to many that he will be donning the scarlet and grey sooner than later.

[EXPAND Click to expand and read the remainder of this post.]

Here’s a look at a timeline of how things have shaken out since Tuesday:

» The New York Times published a story Tuesday noting that Meyer had met with Arizona athletic director Greg Byrne one week ago in Miami, FL to discuss his school’s coaching position. Meyer, according to the story, declined the opportunity but “expressed his desire to return to coaching.”

» Two days later, BuckeyeGrove.com writer Kyle Rowland tweeted the following: “Same plane that came from Gainesville to OSU airport was in Miami when Urban Meyer met with Univ. of Ariz. That meeting took place in Miami.”

» CBS Sports’ NFL insider Mike Freeman then referenced a report he read on Scout.com Thursday, tweeting that “Urban Meyer has agreed to coach OSU for 7 years, $35 million. If true, whoa.”

» After that began to circulate, Sports Illustrated’s Andy Staples attempted to set the record straight with a tweet of his own: “Spoke to someone who would know tonight and was told any report of a deal between Urban Meyer and Ohio State is untrue.”

» However, Buckeyes blog Eleven Warriors quickly took to Twitter to divulge what they had uncovered: “We are 99.7% sure Urban Meyer has agreed to a deal to become the next coach of Ohio State. Solid sources. Plural.”

» Shortly after, The Gainesville Sun’s Pat Dooley texted Meyer directly and asked him specifically about the rumor that he had accepted the OSU job. “No truth to it,” Meyer replied via text.


» Meyer’s wife Shelley also made a statement after being contacted by WCJB TV20 and asked if her husband had agreed to coach Ohio State. “No, he did not,” she told the station.

» SPORTSbyBROOKS then posted a full story about the Meyer situation Friday evening, reporting that a “deal between Meyer and Ohio State was consummated in principle earlier this week in Columbus but not signed.”

Brooks goes on to cite specifics of the agreement including a “generous compensation package” and a promise from the school to provide him with the ability to hire the “highest-paid assistant coaching staff in college football history.”

» Saturday morning, Associated Press writer Larry Lage asked Meyer about the deal. He declined comment. He also questioned ESPN analyst Chris Spielman (rumored by Brooks to be a future Meyer assistant) about the situation, and Spielman said there was no deal between Meyer and OSU.

» While doing color commentary for the Michigan-Nebraska game at noon, Meyer addressed the rumors on the air (video): “I know it’s that time of year. I’ve not been offered any job, and I’ve certainly not accepted any job,” he said.

» Minutes later, ESPN.com released its version of Brooks’s story, noting that “Ohio State has been in contact with Urban Meyer about becoming the school’s coach” but “no contract is in place and no announcement likely would be made until after the regular season.”

» UPDATE: Dooley had an extensive conversation with Meyer over the weekend about the rumors that he might return to coaching. Meyer denied reports of interviews with both Arizona and Ohio State but did say he would consider an offer from the latter institution. “I’m in a good place right now mentally and physically. So if something happens with Ohio State, I’ll have a decision to make,” Meyer said. “If there is a decision to be made concerning Ohio State, there will be a lot that will go into it. But right now, there is no decision to be made.”

He also noted that the three reasons he resigned from Florida will have to be taken into consideration before making any move. “The concerns are still there,” Meyer added. “No. 1 – my health. No. 2 – my family. No. 3 – the state of college football. I’ve done some research into the second one. I’ve found that it is possible to have balance between your job and your family, that there are coaches out there who are doing it.”

It is not surprising that Ohio State and Meyer would both want to wait until the end of the 2011 regular season before announcing any type of agreement. Doing so in-season would be disrespectful to both interim head coach Luke Fickell and Meyer’s current employer. That is, of course, unless there truly is nothing to announce, which appears to be less and less likely as things progress regardless of Meyer’s denials.

The last update there was on November 21. Urban was announced as the new tOSU HC on November 28. He denied the whole thing all the way, with emphasis being placed throughout on his health and his family, and with reporters emphasizing his apparent desire to be respectful to Florida's program and coaches. The whole thing reads eerily similarly to what we've heard so far in this case.

Don't do this to yourself

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SIAP.

What is the false positive rate on the covid-19 tests at the athletics department administers to the football program? And how many people get tested at a time?

Perhaps it is quite normal to get two or three positive results when everybody is tested. But normally, if those people show no symptoms, they will be immediately retested, and determined to have been false positives.

But if you want a pretext to shut everything down, you could just test everybody, and when you get two or three positive results, publish them and treat them as genuine positives. You would not be lying because those people really did test positive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Octavian said:

Given how many head fakes there were in Urban's OSU hiring and how they waited until the season was over, it's hard to completely let this one go. Thanks for checking.

Guys, it's time to give up on these crazy ideas about Urban going to UT.  It is not happening.  It was all crazy rumors and made up stuff.  It's time for us to focus on reality.  Notice how UT is looking for a new coach and mysteriously there are now rumors that Saban is going to retire?  I know Saban and Belichick are close friends and now that Brady is gone Belichick and Saban would probably like to coach at the same place again like back in the Cleveland Browns days.  It's obvious that Saban and Belichick will be announced as the new Co-Head Coaches at UT.  Send me your $9.95's and I will let you know all the details on this fluid situation.  

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

@immamac  We need to have an annual awards show:

 

Poster of the year

Shitbag of the year

Rookie of the year

Homosexual (NTTIAWWT) poster of the year

OFf topic poster of the year, etc

Futureman has these two awards on lock. Hard to see anyone else knocking him off. 

Edited by Happy Gilmore
  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

Don't do this to yourself

 

I'm good. I'll be fine whether UM comes to Texas or not. I just don't believe FCB, KB, or Fat Ketch. They're hacks. None of it makes sense, and there's precedent for exactly what we're seeing. Someone here early on even predicted we see something just like this after it became apparent Herman would be fired.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

unless I missed something from about 9am until now, the only thing we have is one 995 report (IT) saying "sources at UT" told me he's leaning no for health reasons.  Chip (Herman to LSU, Texas to the Pac-10) Brown parroted it, BarstoolSports parroted it, and Ketch added "Meyer said no" or something to that effect.  That's the sum total of what we have that's a no.  That's all 9.95er crowd. 

Look, Meyer may be a no, but there is absolutely nothing that UM or UT have to do to reverse course and say "it's a deal" - not one IOTA of anything.  No one is paying attention to 9.95 reports except their subscribers and us.  Their credibility is strained at best.

When SI, ESPN, or some other credible outlet actually says, UM is not in the running, or UM says it vocally, or Herman is retained or his replacement is hired, then I'll believe this story is dead. 

Until then, I'll note that this last week has been slow, stalled, eerily quiet and without leaks, save for this one story about "one source at UT" and that's it.

It's just as likely that UT/UM wanted pressure off this week, at one or both of their requests, and the agreement was to leak a "one source at UT" story that he said no.

tl; dr - we don't know shit, he could be a yes, he could be a no.  only time will tell.

  • Hook 'Em 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, troph said:

unless I missed something from about 9am until now, the only thing we have is one 995 report (IT) saying "sources at UT" told me he's leaning no for health reasons.  Chip (Herman to LSU, Texas to the Pac-10) Brown parroted it, BarstoolSports parroted it, and Ketch added "Meyer said no" or something to that effect.  That's the sum total of what we have that's a no.  That's all 9.95er crowd. 

Look, Meyer may be a no, but there is absolutely nothing that UM or UT have to do to reverse course and say "it's a deal" - not one IOTA of anything.  No one is paying attention to 9.95 reports except their subscribers and us.  Their credibility is strained at best.

When SI, ESPN, or some other credible outlet actually says, UM is not in the running, or UM says it vocally, or Herman is retained or his replacement is hired, then I'll believe this story is dead. 

Until then, I'll note that this last week has been slow, stalled, eerily quiet and without leaks, save for this one story about "one source at UT" and that's it.

It's just as likely that UT/UM wanted pressure off this week, at one or both of their requests, and the agreement was to leak a "one source at UT" story that he said no.

tl; dr - we don't know shit, he could be a yes, he could be a no.  only time will tell.

I'm in!!

maxresdefault.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, 1leggedduck said:

And, The Dallas Morning News has gone with the UM not going to Texas line already. Don't know if that's stout enough to convince the hopeful, or not. 

DMN is pretty homer for UT sports, so if they threw in the towel for CUM, then I'm guessing more likely than not, CUM isn't happening.

 

  • Fuck You 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, 1leggedduck said:

I've mostly lurked and tried to work it around getting work done and my family, and I still feel like I devoted way too much emotion and metal energy to something I had absolutely no control of. 

Metal energy sounds like something we need more of on the 40.

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, troph said:

unless I missed something from about 9am until now, the only thing we have is one 995 report (IT) saying "sources at UT" told me he's leaning no for health reasons.  Chip (Herman to LSU, Texas to the Pac-10) Brown parroted it, BarstoolSports parroted it, and Ketch added "Meyer said no" or something to that effect.  That's the sum total of what we have that's a no.  That's all 9.95er crowd. 

Look, Meyer may be a no, but there is absolutely nothing that UM or UT have to do to reverse course and say "it's a deal" - not one IOTA of anything.  No one is paying attention to 9.95 reports except their subscribers and us.  Their credibility is strained at best.

When SI, ESPN, or some other credible outlet actually says, UM is not in the running, or UM says it vocally, or Herman is retained or his replacement is hired, then I'll believe this story is dead. 

Until then, I'll note that this last week has been slow, stalled, eerily quiet and without leaks, save for this one story about "one source at UT" and that's it.

It's just as likely that UT/UM wanted pressure off this week, at one or both of their requests, and the agreement was to leak a "one source at UT" story that he said no.

tl; dr - we don't know shit, he could be a yes, he could be a no.  only time will tell.

Exactly. All they have to do if confronted is say "Those reports were unfounded. Next?". They have complete plausible deniability, and it speaks volumes imho that no interested party is saying anything at all today when, like I said before, reporters are likely beating down their doors & burning up their phones looking for a comment of any kind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, 1leggedduck said:

I've mostly lurked and tried to work it around getting work done and my family, and I still feel like I devoted way too much emotion and metal energy to something I had absolutely no control of. 

welcome to the world of being a fanatic.  I'm on my last thread living that way.  If it's not UM then I'm in a move on with my life mode.  I was already there with kids, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I’m gonna be curious how this plays out.  
 

I could see how Urb said I’m out.  Has a ton of money and a role he enjoys.  
 

I’m cautiously optimistic something is there though.  For all the reasons that have been discussed.   Holding out till January loses you a few guys in the 21 class sure but it makes getting OSU coaches/personnel more likely.  Win  for Texas.  There’s not any 21 guys that we absolutely can’t live without having that he’d pull in anyways.  The two best looking guys in Sanders and Brooks have both said they’re signing regardless. The transfer portal will be actively looked at anyways and Urb will have a year to lock up some 22 guys (which would be massively accelerated by Ewers coming back). His reputation would pull some guys in.  
 

There hasn’t been a solid no from Urb, anyone in his family, the university directly or anyone that isn’t a “source” or “spokesperson”. He had a golden opportunity to shut it down Saturday and didn’t.  
 

Maybe it’s delusion or stupidity but regardless we all wait to see.  You gotta pursue till you can’t anymore.  If these are conditions to him coming, so be it. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, wood said:

Exactly. All they have to do if confronted is say "Those reports were unfounded. Next?". They have complete plausible deniability, and it speaks volumes imho that no interested party is saying anything at all today when, like I said before, reporters are likely beating down their doors & burning up their phones looking for a comment of any kind.

excellent point.  it's just crazy silent.  and that doesn't mean he's a yes, it could mean exactly what the 995er crowd is saying - Herman might stay, Texas reassessing, etc.  that's all possible.  But that's what everyone is saying is TRUE. No. It's POSSIBLE.  It's also POSSIBLE that it's cover. 

we just don't have enough information to really know.

so we can fret or we can just bide our time, do our jobs, love our people and wait until next weekend.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, troph said:

excellent point.  it's just crazy silent.  and that doesn't mean he's a yes, it could mean exactly what the 995er crowd is saying - Herman might stay, Texas reassessing, etc.  that's all possible.  But that's what everyone is saying is TRUE. No. It's POSSIBLE.  It's also POSSIBLE that it's cover. 

we just don't have enough information to really know.

so we can fret or we can just bide our time, do our jobs, love our people and wait until next weekend.

Don't you dare trot out that reasonable thinking and reality! /s

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, PHLaggie said:

DMN is pretty homer for UT sports, so if they threw in the towel for CUM, then I'm guessing more likely than not, CUM isn't happening.

 

Did you read the DMN article? They added nothing at all. It's all based on the reports we've already heard. It's the worst kind of reporting, but all too common these days. Chuck Carlton is as big of a POS as the rest of these guys, and if the DMN wants to print shit like this, then I guess they are, too.

Quote

News broke late Sunday that Meyer has decided not to come to Texas because of lingering concerns about his health that contributed to him leaving jobs at Florida and Ohio State

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • immamac changed the title to Urban Meyer or bust
  • immamac locked this topic
  • immamac unlocked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...