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2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.


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Posted
14 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

What's astounding is that it has never been easier to get information.  

The simple fact is that for greedy and sometimes downright evil people Americans by virtue of the phone in their pocket should be more connected and educated to the state of all of those things mentioned in that poll than ever before in history.....alas propagandists going to propaganda.  

Same device for both, one of which comes at a much higher volume than the other by necessity and design. 

Posted
5 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

The cause of death of the Republic will be "suicide by abject stupidity."  Time of death will be the morning of November 6, 2024, once they confirm the vote counts.

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Posted
56 minutes ago, Goredho said:

And they don't sport swastikas tattoos or shaved heads.

Neither did Goebbels. Nazi is how you act, not a fashion choice.

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The cause of death of the Republic will be "suicide by abject stupidity."  Time of death will be the morning of November 6, 2024, once they confirm the vote counts.

Brainwashing isn't stupidity.

Posted
On 5/19/2024 at 11:48 PM, TDunk said:

Tik tok seems to play more favorable trump shit for "some" reason. Social media is awesome and sucks. 

Look at this site. That's why.

Posted
1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Allowing yourself to be brainwashed is.

How so?

Goods cost more and incomes haven't kept up.

Layoffs headline every business section.

Interest rates are higher than they were four years ago.

Homes are expensive and in short supply.

Those are the headlines. Why shouldn’t people believe the economy is bad, even though it’s erroneous?

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Posted
On 5/20/2024 at 10:19 AM, Nice Guy Eddie said:

It's always fair to say that you are unhappy with the results of someone that you previously gave your vote but it's something else to throw the vote to the other candidate based on that disappointment. 

 

On another note, the S&P 500 is up 58% from the last election date. Anyone with money in the stock market is a fool to not continue with Biden. Why rock the boat.

NVDA is on fire. Thanks, White Obama.

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Posted
10 minutes ago, The Dog said:

How so?

Goods cost more and incomes haven't kept up.

Layoffs headline every business section.

Interest rates are higher than they were four years ago.

Homes are expensive and in short supply.

Those are the headlines. Why shouldn’t people believe the economy is bad, even though it’s erroneous?

It would help tremendously if the liberal media would stop with the erroneous headlines.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Goredho said:

there are a lot of voters who aren't dumb but love Trump.  I know a few of these, and they have kind of given up all pretenses if they trust you.  They think the federal government is fatally flawed and needs to be broken and rebuilt no matter the cost.

No, those voters you are talking about are fucking stupid. As mentioned, Trump had his chance to do that and didn’t.

It’s like the Qanon idiots that actually believed Trump was going to lock up Hillary. He had four years to try something, but those morons didn’t understand that Hillary was useless behind bars, and that Trump was never going to try and even attempt to do anything about her.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Surly Bevo said:

What's astounding is that it has never been easier to get information.

It’s also never been easier to get misinformation that supports your preconceived beliefs.

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Posted

It's not (just) a brain/stupidity thing.

It's a heart and inhumanity thing.

They weren't just "brainwashed." They were conditioned to become evil. Indifferent to the wellbeing of others.

It's not a shortcoming that intellect alone could solve.

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Posted
29 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

It's not (just) a brain/stupidity thing.

It's a heart and inhumanity thing.

They weren't just "brainwashed." They were conditioned to become evil. Indifferent to the wellbeing of others.

It's not a shortcoming that intellect alone could solve.

 

Posted
2 hours ago, The Dog said:

How so?

Goods cost more and incomes haven't kept up.

Layoffs headline every business section.

Interest rates are higher than they were four years ago.

Homes are expensive and in short supply.

Those are the headlines. Why shouldn’t people believe the economy is bad, even though it’s erroneous?

Why shouldn’t people use their brains instead of believing clickbait headlines? That’s your question?


 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Some surly poster called this months ago.

You mean every surly poster called this months ago because this is always what was going to happen. Kiss the ring or die.

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Posted
4 hours ago, Goredho said:

What I don't think people fully appreciate is that while yeah, there are some dumb fucking voters out there, there are a lot of voters who aren't dumb but love Trump.  I know a few of these, and they have kind of given up all pretenses if they trust you.  They think the federal government is fatally flawed and needs to be broken and rebuilt no matter the cost.  They know completely well that Trump has some horrific traits competing for dominance -- narcissism, sociopathy, stupidity and criminality.  They do not care.  They view his hatchet-man governance as the opportunity to remake the federal government to be something from before the New Deal and all the progressive measures enacted in the last half of the 20th century (civil rights, gay marriage, etc...).IThat is their vision of a better America.  And they don't sport swastikas tattoos or shaved heads.  They are directors or VPs at companies whose names you would recognize in Austin, Dallas and Denver.  They are some of the parents of the kids that your kids are friends with.  You've sat next to them at little league games, maybe even laughed together at a (non-political) joke among the circle of dad's at the neighbor kid's birthday party.

 

I used to run with some of these folks and higher (not so much these days as I'm semi-retired).  At the end of the day it's mostly about how much they pay in income tax...oh, and regulations!

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Posted
1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Why shouldn’t people use their brains instead of believing clickbait headlines? That’s your question?


 

Because most people don't read beyond the headlines?

Remember how stupid the average person is and that half of everyone is dumber than that.

They are being manipulated.

Posted
1 hour ago, BevoAbyss said:

Guess what. You know some fascists.

They don't give a shit about the millions American women, people of color, LGBTQIA, educators, medical workers harmed by the cruelty, violence, and wholesale destruction of MAGA policies. That's why they are not good people. 

And I don't give a crap who they are ... or what companies they work for ... or what their spoiled ass kids do ... or what lame ass McMansion neighborhood they inhabit. 

They are just as narcissistic and sociopathic as Trump, only under the table.

All they care about is protecting and justifying their little slice of White Corporate Capitalist Heaven ...  And if fascism is the way to do it, they will do it. Hell, they are doing it. 

But, please continue to chum and laugh with the "circle of dads" fascists at the golf course and little league game. 

I disagree with this.  These people aren’t all Fascists and they all don’t want bad things to happen to the groups you mentioned.  Some are like that but many unfortunately and simply just watch Fox News and believe the country is falling apart because of the Democrats and Biden. Are there racists that vote for Trump?  Yes and they are pieces of shit.  Are there people that vote for Trump that are greedy and just care about their personal possessions and making more money?  Yes and they are pieces of shit, but to lump everyone that votes for Trump in one category is actually incorrect.  There is a large group of Republicans that have a different/incorrect view of the world because Fox News, right wing media, and the Republican politicians push that on them as the truth.

 It has probably always been this way but now it is amped up even more with social media and media in general but it’s quite amazing to see propaganda and lies and how it steers the views of people in this country.

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Posted
17 hours ago, The Dog said:

 

The messaging from the Democrats is beyond awful if this poll is accurate. You have millions of dollars in the bank. Start spending it to shift the message before it is too late. Maybe it doesn't make a bit of difference but do what Republicans do. Flood the fucking zone. 

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Posted
I disagree with this.  These people aren’t all Fascists and they all don’t want bad things to happen to the groups you mentioned.  Some are like that but many unfortunately and simply just watch Fox News and believe the country is falling apart because of the Democrats and Biden. Are there racists that vote for Trump?  Yes and they are pieces of shit.  Are there people that vote for Trump that are greedy and just care about their personal possessions and making more money?  Yes and they are pieces of shit, but to lump everyone that votes for Trump in one category is actually incorrect.  There is a large group of Republicans that have a different/incorrect view of the world because Fox News, right wing media, and the Republican politicians push that on them as the truth.
 It has probably always been this way but now it is amped up even more with social media and media in general but it’s quite amazing to see propaganda and lies and how it steers the views of people in this country.

Sure. They’re not fascists who want to exterminate minorities and the opposition. They’re just willing to support fascists who want to exterminate minorities and the opposition if it will reduce their taxes by $1.
That’s even more evil. That’s our point. It would be one thing if they wanted to kill my family because they truly believe that we are an existential threat to the American way. It’s even sicker that they’re willing to have us exterminated to save $1.
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Posted
2 minutes ago, mdmost said:

The messaging from the Democrats is beyond awful if this poll is accurate. You have millions of dollars in the bank. Start spending it to shift the message before it is too late. Maybe it doesn't make a bit of difference but do what Republicans do. Flood the fucking zone. 

A series of Fact vs Fiction ads would be nice, although who knows if it would accomplish anything. 

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Posted

Oh I see we have talked about about that crappy Harris Poll.

The one that shows the GOP with 50% approval among all voters and 18-24 with 63% approval of the GOP and 47% of blacks approving of the GOP. 

Trump is at 50% approval in that poll (LMAO).  Elon Musk is at 48% (LMFAO).  RFK is at 46% (FUCKING DYING)

Why do you people believe this shit? 

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Posted
15 minutes ago, hookem2010 said:

I feel like this is how many of us rationalize friends and family who continue to support Trump. "They're not bad people, they've just been duped!"

My parents are in this group. While I would love to believe they care about more than money and are not that  racist, I can't blame Fox News alone for their beliefs. I can put a good amount of blame on right-wing media, but my parents are smart enough to not be let off the hook so easily 

I still love them and I'm not ready to cut them out of my life, as some people on here like to suggest. But I'm not about to give them a free pass on their shitty beliefs because of brainwashing, and if they bring them up around my family or me, we're going to have problems. 

your folks are the that third that sits and watches the minority rule take over with all its cruelty and then wonder, how did we get here?

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

This is something I've really grappled with over the last year or two.

I think there's a desire to create simple "good" and "bad" labels for everyone and it's just not that simple.

I have friends who would drop everything at a moment's notice to help me, no questions asked.  They are generous, donate to charities, and are raising what seem to be solid, well-adjusted children.  They are also almost assuredly voting for Trump.  Does this make them "bad?"

My parents would give up their lives in a second for those that they love.  The household we grew up in was full of warmth and love and is the example I am trying to replicate for my family.  They are also almost assuredly voting for Trump.  Does this make them "bad?"

I have brilliant co-workers who are phenomenal at building up a team, always make sure to share credit, and thrive in a culturally diverse work environment.  They are also almost assuredly voting for Trump.  Does this make them "bad?"

Meanwhile, I know plenty of rude, self-centered Biden-voters who couldn't care less about those around them and take no responsibility for their actions.  Just because they pull the same lever as me in November, does that make them "good?"

The closest rationalization I've been able to conclude is that some people are able to treat politics kind of like sports.  There's a team they root for and they'll continue to root for that team, regardless of the players involved.  I obviously don't agree with this and wish they saw what I see, but simply labeling all Trump voters as bad people oversimplifies the issue to a degree that ensures it will never get fixed.

But... on the other hand, how can a "good" person look at Trump and not be immediately repulsed?  Even given what I said in the paragraph above, this still seems unbelievable to me.

I don't have a solution, just a rant from someone who has struggled with this since he realized that the list of people who my wife and I would trust to raise our children if something happened to us is almost exclusively comprised of (likely?) Trump voters.

What if we replace "bad" with "idoit" -  does that work?

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Posted

There are only three types of Trump voters. You are either ignorant, bigoted, or just plain dumb. Anyone who votes for him fits in one of those buckets. Some fit in more than one, but all fit in at least one.

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Posted
42 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

This is something I've really grappled with over the last year or two.

I think there's a desire to create simple "good" and "bad" labels for everyone and it's just not that simple.

I have friends who would drop everything at a moment's notice to help me, no questions asked.  They are generous, donate to charities, and are raising what seem to be solid, well-adjusted children.  They are also almost assuredly voting for Trump.  Does this make them "bad?"

My parents would give up their lives in a second for those that they love.  The household we grew up in was full of warmth and love and is the example I am trying to replicate for my family.  They are also almost assuredly voting for Trump.  Does this make them "bad?"

I have brilliant co-workers who are phenomenal at building up a team, always make sure to share credit, and thrive in a culturally diverse work environment.  They are also almost assuredly voting for Trump.  Does this make them "bad?"

Meanwhile, I know plenty of rude, self-centered Biden-voters who couldn't care less about those around them and take no responsibility for their actions.  Just because they pull the same lever as me in November, does that make them "good?"

The closest rationalization I've been able to conclude is that some people are able to treat politics kind of like sports.  There's a team they root for and they'll continue to root for that team, regardless of the players involved.  I obviously don't agree with this and wish they saw what I see, but simply labeling all Trump voters as bad people oversimplifies the issue to a degree that ensures it will never get fixed.

But... on the other hand, how can a "good" person look at Trump and not be immediately repulsed?  Even given what I said in the paragraph above, this still seems unbelievable to me.

I don't have a solution, just a rant from someone who has struggled with this since he realized that the list of people who my wife and I would trust to raise our children if something happened to us is almost exclusively comprised of (likely?) Trump voters.

If you replaced "Trump" with "Hitler" how do you feel about your statements? Honest Question. 

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Posted
55 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

My parents would give up their lives in a second for those that they love.

Giving up all you have for those you love is just basic. Good means you'll help even those who are outside of your family, peer group, company, etc.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Chuckie Finster said:

This is something I've really grappled with over the last year or two.

I think there's a desire to create simple "good" and "bad" labels for everyone and it's just not that simple.

I have friends who would drop everything at a moment's notice to help me, no questions asked.  They are generous, donate to charities, and are raising what seem to be solid, well-adjusted children.  They are also almost assuredly voting for Trump.  Does this make them "bad?"

My parents would give up their lives in a second for those that they love.  The household we grew up in was full of warmth and love and is the example I am trying to replicate for my family.  They are also almost assuredly voting for Trump.  Does this make them "bad?"

I have brilliant co-workers who are phenomenal at building up a team, always make sure to share credit, and thrive in a culturally diverse work environment.  They are also almost assuredly voting for Trump.  Does this make them "bad?"

Meanwhile, I know plenty of rude, self-centered Biden-voters who couldn't care less about those around them and take no responsibility for their actions.  Just because they pull the same lever as me in November, does that make them "good?"

The closest rationalization I've been able to conclude is that some people are able to treat politics kind of like sports.  There's a team they root for and they'll continue to root for that team, regardless of the players involved.  I obviously don't agree with this and wish they saw what I see, but simply labeling all Trump voters as bad people oversimplifies the issue to a degree that ensures it will never get fixed.

But... on the other hand, how can a "good" person look at Trump and not be immediately repulsed?  Even given what I said in the paragraph above, this still seems unbelievable to me.

I don't have a solution, just a rant from someone who has struggled with this since he realized that the list of people who my wife and I would trust to raise our children if something happened to us is almost exclusively comprised of (likely?) Trump voters.

 

28 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

If you replaced "Trump" with "Hitler" how do you feel about your statements? Honest Question. 

This.

Make the phrase even more pointedly accurate: "They are also almost assuredly voting for the man/party that has promised to deliver a 'final solution' to the 'jewish problem.'"

Yes.  It makes them bad.  In fact, if the point is that they aren't REALLY for mass extermination of the jews, they just like the other things the nazis are for, so they're willing to put the nazis in power (where they will commit genocide) because hey, lower taxes.....that is actually fucking WORSE.

If you kill me because you think you HAVE to in order to protect your family and way of life, I can at least UNDERSTAND that.  It's wrong, and super-bad, but I can at least grasp it.

If you kill me because your income will go up 2%....Jesus Tapdancing Christ, that's some sick fucking shit.

And if you 're willing to do the above....foolishly thinking that they won't eventually turn on you (for being too close to jews/mexicans...for being a secret jew/mexican, as they alone decide....for being insufficiently loyal to the regime...for pissing off the Supreme Leader by failing to deliver his coffee hot enough, etc.)....you're sick, evil, AND breathtakingly stupid.

Evil and stupid.  That's what Trump supporters are.  All of them.  Yes, including your family.  

There's plenty of stories of nazis commiting acts of kindness....Mengele was a decorated combat medic.  He was outwardly kind to many children in the camps.  Before he conducted horrific medical experiments on them, of course.  We grade people in the balance, and there are some things that cannot be overcome.  Supporting Trumpism and fascism, specifically this Trumpist regime that is built on a proud foundation of who all it is going to hurt, punish, and exact retribution on, is one of those things.  I don't give a fuck if Rudolf Hess went out in the cold rain to save puppies, was scrupulously honest in all of his business dealings, treated all women he dated and married with respect and decency, was a prince to his household staff, regularly stopped to help strangers change a tire, donated lots of money to charity, etc.....he fucking commanded a goddamned death camp.  He facilitated pure evil.  If you knowingly facilitate pure evil, your personal balance sheet will ALWAYS end up in the red.

Edited by Brisketexan
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Posted
2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Evil and stupid.  That's what Trump supporters are.  All of them.  Yes, including your family.  

Understand this and you figure out how it came to be so many people around the world hate America.

Throw in some poverty and a belief that God conquers all and baby you got yourself a movement.

Throw in some Saudi money and baby you got yourself an existential threat.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

Giving up all you have for those you love is just basic. Good means you'll help even those who are outside of your family, peer group, company, etc.

Agree, and there are plenty of Trump voters who are exemplary in that arena, as uncomfortable and contradicting as it may seem.

 

18 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

If you replaced "Trump" with "Hitler" how do you feel about your statements? Honest Question. 

i think this is basically the entire premise of "The Zone of Interest."  Obviously the main characters in that movie were legitimately running Auschwitz so not comparing apples to apples here, but there were absolutely individuals in Germany who checked all the boxes of a stereotypical "good" person (helped families in need, rescued stray animals, donated blood).... and also voted for Hitler.  I'm in no way saying those are "good" people, but I think painting a caricature of "evil" oversimplifies the situation to a dangerous degree.

To be very clear, I'm in no way trying to defend a Trump (or Hitler) vote, nor the people who cast them.  And I'm sure there will be replies that state that a vote for Trump outweighs any other good deeds a person may do, which is probably something I agree with more than I don't.  These are merely the confused ramblings of a man who is trying to understand how most of the people who he loves most in the world are able to see the world so differently.  

 

 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Agree, and there are plenty of Trump voters who are exemplary in that arena, as uncomfortable and contradicting as it may seem.

 

i think this is basically the entire premise of "The Zone of Interest."  Obviously the main characters in that movie were legitimately running Auschwitz so not comparing apples to apples here, but there were absolutely individuals in Germany who checked all the boxes of a stereotypical "good" person (helped families in need, rescued stray animals, donated blood).... and also voted for Hitler.  I'm in no way saying those are "good" people, but I think painting a caricature of "evil" oversimplifies the situation to a dangerous degree.

To be very clear, I'm in no way trying to defend a Trump (or Hitler) vote, nor the people who cast them.  And I'm sure there will be replies that state that a vote for Trump outweighs any other good deeds a person may do, which is probably something I agree with more than I don't.  These are merely the confused ramblings of a man who is trying to understand how most of the people who he loves most in the world are able to see the world so differently.  

 

 

I understand, and I wasn't trying to be critical of you or how you view the people you've grown to care about. 

What I was attempting to do was simply to color the situation with a comparison to one in which we 100% have the advantage of hindisght. Becaue we do. Another way to look at it is, if 20 years down the road, where the country is a shitshow and women, non white people, and certainly LGBTQ+ rights have taken massive steps back, as well as a move towards a theocratic autocracy...if all of those worst fears come true, will look back with such understanding of those who facilitated and allowed those changes to be ushered in? 

Or would you curse their names becuase you had a daughter who died because of an easily preventable medical procedure?

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Agree, and there are plenty of Trump voters who are exemplary in that arena, as uncomfortable and contradicting as it may seem.

i think this is basically the entire premise of "The Zone of Interest."  Obviously the main characters in that movie were legitimately running Auschwitz so not comparing apples to apples here, but there were absolutely individuals in Germany who checked all the boxes of a stereotypical "good" person (helped families in need, rescued stray animals, donated blood).... and also voted for Hitler.  I'm in no way saying those are "good" people, but I think painting a caricature of "evil" oversimplifies the situation to a dangerous degree.

To be very clear, I'm in no way trying to defend a Trump (or Hitler) vote, nor the people who cast them.  And I'm sure there will be replies that state that a vote for Trump outweighs any other good deeds a person may do, which is probably something I agree with more than I don't.  These are merely the confused ramblings of a man who is trying to understand how most of the people who he loves most in the world are able to see the world so differently.  

I hear you, and feel you.  And it's really hard.  It's REALLY fucking hard.

The hardest part is reaching that final conclusion: that on balance, these people have chosen evil.  For whatever the reason, they have chosen it.  And that is, in the end, unacceptable and unforgivable.

6 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I understand, and I wasn't trying to be critical of you or how you view the people you've grown to care about. 

What I was attempting to do was simply to color the situation with a comparison to one in which we 100% have the advantage of hindisght. Becaue we do. Another way to look at it is, if 20 years down the road, where the country is a shitshow and women, non white people, and certainly LGBTQ+ rights have taken massive steps back, as well as a move towards a theocratic autocracy...if all of those worst fears come true, will look back with such understanding of those who facilitated and allowed those changes to be ushered in? 

Or would you curse their names becuase you had a daughter who died because of an easily preventable medical procedure?

Great post.  And yeah, the bolded -- or 1,000 questions like it, like "when your child's spouse, who is tainted with minority blood, is rounded up and deported to a country they've never even been to even though they are a natural born US citizen but the future regime has abolished that retroactively and a crooked SCOTUS happily went along with it, how will you feel?" or "when the man who gunned down your child and her entire family when he went hunting 'invaders' at the local Wal-Mart is pardoned by the Regime because he was doing God's Work, how will you feel?"  And on and on and on.

Evil shit like the Holocaust didn't happen because Hitler and a few dozen bad dudes had some really shitty ideas.  These things happen because millions of people EMPOWER, EXCUSE, AND PROTECT those evil fuckers, so that they can do their evil unimpeded.

Edited by Brisketexan
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Posted

One thing Trumpism/Maga movement has definitely done over the past decade is pull the curtain back on just how many people in America are dumb/racist/sexist/ignorant etc

 

 

To vote for Trump, you definitely have to be one of those things, if not all

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Posted
27 minutes ago, GreenspointTexas said:

just how many people in America are dumb/racist/sexist/ignorant etc

It still surprises me that people hadn't figured this out during the W years.

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Posted
2 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

This is something I've really grappled with over the last year or two.

I think there's a desire to create simple "good" and "bad" labels for everyone and it's just not that simple.

I have friends who would drop everything at a moment's notice to help me, no questions asked.  They are generous, donate to charities, and are raising what seem to be solid, well-adjusted children.  They are also almost assuredly voting for Trump.  Does this make them "bad?"

My parents would give up their lives in a second for those that they love.  The household we grew up in was full of warmth and love and is the example I am trying to replicate for my family.  They are also almost assuredly voting for Trump.  Does this make them "bad?"

I have brilliant co-workers who are phenomenal at building up a team, always make sure to share credit, and thrive in a culturally diverse work environment.  They are also almost assuredly voting for Trump.  Does this make them "bad?"

Meanwhile, I know plenty of rude, self-centered Biden-voters who couldn't care less about those around them and take no responsibility for their actions.  Just because they pull the same lever as me in November, does that make them "good?"

The closest rationalization I've been able to conclude is that some people are able to treat politics kind of like sports.  There's a team they root for and they'll continue to root for that team, regardless of the players involved.  I obviously don't agree with this and wish they saw what I see, but simply labeling all Trump voters as bad people oversimplifies the issue to a degree that ensures it will never get fixed.

But... on the other hand, how can a "good" person look at Trump and not be immediately repulsed?  Even given what I said in the paragraph above, this still seems unbelievable to me.

I don't have a solution, just a rant from someone who has struggled with this since he realized that the list of people who my wife and I would trust to raise our children if something happened to us is almost exclusively comprised of (likely?) Trump voters.

It is indeed not as simple as "good" and "bad" people. But I do think there's reason to argue that anyone who supports Trump at this point can't be "good," regardless of the best elements of their character.  The difference between your "good" friends and co-workers who will nevertheless vote for Trump and truly good people is that the "good" people you're thinking about at a very fundamental level don't regard people who aren't like them as fully human. It may not even be an entirely conscious belief system, but they don't regard a black woman or an hispanic man or a white atheist as deserving of the same fundamental rights and dignities as they are (and usually they don't think white women are either).  

Even when it's not just blatant racism, there's some evolutionary tribal component to this. We all prioritize families and friends over strangers. Some of us are conscious of that bias and view it as a failing and try to push back against it (and often fail).  Others embrace it as, in their view, a fundamental part of human nature (and tend to view this as ordained by God).

As I and many other posters have noted here countless times the past few years, the nazis themselves weren't all comic book villains, most were normal, decent-seeming people who loved their families, helped out friends, etc. That's the lesson we should've learned from WW2. Instead we mythologized them as some sort of unique, ultimate evil that the world would never see again.  But they weren't, they were just regular people who tended to lean reactionary in their politics and personality, who had they been born in another time and place could've been Rockefeller Republicans.

Many/most Trump voters today (at least the ones who aren't consciously proudly racist) are similar, though they have less excuse. Fascism was new to the world in the 1930s and nobody understood the horrible harm it would inflict on the world. We know better now, but it seems a lot of "good" people don't care. 

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Posted
9 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

It is indeed not as simple as "good" and "bad" people. But I do think there's reason to argue that anyone who supports Trump at this point can't be "good," regardless of the best elements of their character.  The difference between your "good" friends and co-workers who will nevertheless vote for Trump and truly good people is that the "good" people you're thinking about at a very fundamental level don't regard people who aren't like them as fully human. It may not even be an entirely conscious belief system, but they don't regard a black woman or an hispanic man or a white atheist as deserving of the same fundamental rights and dignities as they are (and usually they don't think white women are either).  

Even when it's not just blatant racism, there's some evolutionary tribal component to this. We all prioritize families and friends over strangers. Some of us are conscious of that bias and view it as a failing and try to push back against it (and often fail).  Others embrace it as, in their view, a fundamental part of human nature (and tend to view this as ordained by God).

As I and many other posters have noted here countless times the past few years, the nazis themselves weren't all comic book villains, most were normal, decent-seeming people who loved their families, helped out friends, etc. That's the lesson we should've learned from WW2. Instead we mythologized them as some sort of unique, ultimate evil that the world would never see again.  But they weren't, they were just regular people who tended to lean reactionary in their politics and personality, who had they been born in another time and place could've been Rockefeller Republicans.

Many/most Trump voters today (at least the ones who aren't consciously proudly racist) are similar, though they have less excuse. Fascism was new to the world in the 1930s and nobody understood the horrible harm it would inflict on the world. We know better now, but it seems a lot of "good" people don't care. 

Arendt's banality of evil.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The difference between your "good" friends and co-workers who will nevertheless vote for Trump and truly good people is that the "good" people you're thinking about at a very fundamental level don't regard people who aren't like them as fully human. It may not even be an entirely conscious belief system, but they don't regard a black woman or an hispanic man or a white atheist as deserving of the same fundamental rights and dignities as they are (and usually they don't think white women are either).  

 

15 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

As I and many other posters have noted here countless times the past few years, the nazis themselves weren't all comic book villains, most were normal, decent-seeming people who loved their families, helped out friends, etc. That's the lesson we should've learned from WW2. Instead we mythologized them as some sort of unique, ultimate evil that the world would never see again.  But they weren't, they were just regular people who tended to lean reactionary in their politics and personality, who had they been born in another time and place could've been Rockefeller Republicans.

Bolded the killer takeaways.

As just one example, people with a last name like mine aren't...you know.... "real Americans."  And with that judgment/decision, we can be cast to the depths of hell without a second thought.

Hannah Arendt's observation of "the banality of evil," and how evil outcomes were made possible by a lack of empathy, was and remains dead-on, balls accurate (EDIT: Twice even beat me to the Arendt reference by a second):

Quote

Arendt found Eichmann an ordinary, rather bland, bureaucrat, who in her words, was ‘neither perverted nor sadistic’, but ‘terrifyingly normal’. He acted without any motive other than to diligently advance his career in the Nazi bureaucracy. Eichmann was not an amoral monster, she concluded in her study of the case, Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil (1963). Instead, he performed evil deeds without evil intentions, a fact connected to his ‘thoughtlessness’, a disengagement from the reality of his evil acts. Eichmann ‘never realised what he was doing’ due to an ‘inability… to think from the standpoint of somebody else’. Lacking this particular cognitive ability, he ‘commit[ted] crimes under circumstances that made it well-nigh impossible for him to know or to feel that he [was] doing wrong’.

Arendt dubbed these collective characteristics of Eichmann ‘the banality of evil’: he was not inherently evil, but merely shallow and clueless, a ‘joiner’, in the words of one contemporary interpreter of Arendt’s thesis: he was a man who drifted into the Nazi Party, in search of purpose and direction, not out of deep ideological belief.

A dehumanizing lack of empathy for our fellow humans who don't look exactly like us, or don't think or worship God exactly like us, is absolutely how we have ended up where we are, and it's why we are inexorably heading towards an inhuman hell that none of us can or want to imagine.

In the end, we are going to implement and empower a movement that will do inhuman things to other humans because they simply don't believe that those other humans are actually human.  A tale as old as humanity itself, and we are doomed to repeat it on a loop.  Oh, and that those fucktards DARE to stand on "antisemitism is wrong!" as some supposed principled stance they take (as members of their own movement actively attack jews and (((globalists))) and the like) is the fucking cherry on top.

Edited by Brisketexan
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