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3 minutes ago, F250 said:

I was addressing the IC discussion because it has merit and it was quashed pretty quickly because it was automatically interpreted as a defense of Trump which happens a lot here.

 

The IC are cops and cops are by their nature authoritarians immunized by the state to trample on people’s rights, but the American IC as it currently exists is pretty far from as bad as it could be considering the powers at their disposal, and at least they’re not literal goddamn traitors.

If your focus in this moment in time is on replacing them and not replacing Trump, you’re worse than a cop. Even Anastasis knows Trump doesn’t plan to replace the current IC with people more respectful of anyone’s rights, so his bullshit rings hollow when he says he won’t vote for the only person who can replace Trump.

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17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, and back to this.  No we don't.  We are really good at mythologizing shit, but let's be clear -- without oil, we'd be a bigger Mississippi with decent Mexican food.

The TexMex and BBQ scores a lot of points for me.  But of course if you want to look at the confederacy and all of that it's not pretty.  

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Anastasis is a douche.  He's very cagey with his replies and all but like I've said earlier, anyone who doesn't see the threat in Trump and won't do anything -- even something as simple as voting* -- to save our country is an asshole.  Anastasis is an asshole.

*I know, voting isn't as easy as it should be.

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29 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The villages may be the whitest place in America. 

 

I thought the old white guy yelling out white power while riding in a fucking golf cart was a nice touch.

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For those who are loath to support a Democrat, I’ll use a different ww2 metaphor: Think of Biden in the terms of Normandy. 
 

We need to get off the fucking beach. And the beach is keeping a functioning democracy.  Because right now, it’s not clear if we can hold on past Jan.  2021 as a democracy. 

 Let’s just get off the beach and get some ammo, K-rations, and water.  We can deal with the rest later. And if that means the formally GOP members of this board need to take it out on the Dems in 2022 as retribution, that’s fine.

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Have you eaten Mexican food in, say, Colorado or Iowa or Virginia?

Arizona does it right as well, New Mexico was ok from what I experienced, but definitely below Tx and AZ.

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Posted (edited)

I don’t give a shit who y’all vote for. I’m white and wealthy. Elections can never touch me. (Dies of Covid-19)

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz

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Just now, Nivek said:


Arizona does it right as well, New Mexico was ok from what I experienced, but definitely below Tx and AZ.

That’s why I didn’t mention those places or California.  

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37 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Have you eaten Mexican food in, say, Colorado or Iowa or Virginia?

Iowa is surprisingly good actually. A shit load better than the other 4 states I've lived in. 

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Ah the Death Spiral is back. 

The math told me in 2008 to vote for Obama because I thought having a minority for POTUS was > trying to bitch and complain about the two party system. I will sadly vote for Biden again because not getting nuked > bitching about the two party system. Anastasis will hopefully come around. 

hey @Anastasis how bout this. I don't want to be nuked from Jan 21, 2021 to Jan 20th 2025. Can you help a brotha out? Getting nuked before - well we all lose my man. Getting nuked after 2025 - hey you win. Deal?

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3 minutes ago, ISUCyclones said:

Iowa is surprisingly good actually. A shit load better than the other 4 states I've lived in. 

It’s really not, you just don’t know any better.

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Pretty humorous watching some of you guys unpack your straw man.  

I guarantee you that I have voted for fewer Republicans in my life than @Brisketexan. He feels really bad about that though, performing a projecting flagellation for his own history of political short comings. 

I have made two political donations since 2016, one national, one state level. Both to democratic candidates. Prior to that, one fringe Republican candidate. The only person I would have considered a donation this presidential election cycle after the nominations played out was Amash, but he bowed out with the quickness.  

While some have suddenly found the cat birds seat from West Austin to project, pointing out the pain and suffering and cruelty inflicted by American politics on others WHILE PEOPLE DIE, there have been some of us who have been calling out the reality of American foreign policy for decades across multiple administrations.  Glad that a few of you have seem to come around to the plight of the situation, if only because of Trump. Hope that you guys find a way to stick around after January 2021.  But to be honest, I sincerely don't expect much in the way of persistence.  Much like all the STOP WAR NOW signs mysteriously disappeared from my former central Austin hood circa 2008, I expect much the same when Biden is in office. 

It literally takes the worst person in the history of American politics for some of you guys to pull your heads out of your ass and say hey, maybe there is a problem here. But you still fail to recognize the root of the problem. Insisting that any objection to our two party system, captured by the military and intelligence industrial complex, is really a step into the abyss. While you just goosestep right into the turns of the death spiral.  

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Just now, conVINCEd said:

It’s really not, you just don’t know any better.

Eh, I've been to Texas plenty, apparently you hit a bad place. 

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Just now, conVINCEd said:

It’s really not, you just don’t know any better.

You never know. I was raised on Joe Cotten's BBQ but I've had pretty good BBQ in Newark (NJ, not DE).  

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Posted (edited)

I dunno. The discourse here has gotten way too deep. I’m checking out for now. 

Edited by JimmyJames

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2 minutes ago, Bullneck said:

You never know. I was raised on Joe Cotten's BBQ but I've had pretty good BBQ in Newark (NJ, not DE).  

 

i still miss that place. that was the goto 'special' lunch/dinner place during my college years

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5 minutes ago, staboner said:

Ah the Death Spiral is back. 

The math told me in 2008 to vote for Obama because I thought having a minority for POTUS was > trying to bitch and complain about the two party system. I will sadly vote for Biden again because not getting nuked > bitching about the two party system. Anastasis will hopefully come around. 

hey @Anastasis how bout this. I don't want to be nuked from Jan 21, 2021 to Jan 20th 2025. Can you help a brotha out? Getting nuked before - well we all lose my man. Getting nuked after 2025 - hey you win. Deal?

I don't want to be nuked either my no nuke Sunday friend. I think that best way to reduce that risk substantially is to go a completely different direction with our foreign policy. 

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Yea gotta be honest here guys, as someone who often disagrees with @Anastasis about a lot of stuff, and as someone who believes that there is only one choice in the upcoming election, this is still America. I understand the argument that this is for the greater good. I understand that trump threatens our country’s very existence. I understand that we have a firm two party system and any vote that isn’t Biden’s name does in fact help Trump. All of that said to say, vote for who you want for the reasons you find important.

I hope we have more votes for Biden and we bring an end to this shit show.

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No, I'm not calling out Anastasis for his criticism of the IC.  Follow me here: I'm criticizing him because he has stated in plain terms that he won't be voting for the only person who can remove Trump from power.
So, to go with the metaphor, Anastasis isn't just criticizing Bolsehvism, he's actively denying them the tools they need to defeat the imminent threat to the world (you know, the guy who conquered Europe and was working on a nuke of his own).  All while sitting in a smug West Austin house, mostly immune to the worst cruelty, death, and suffering that Trump inflicts.  It's cowardly bullshit.  He cloaks it in intellect, but it's just old-fashioned cowardice -- he refuses to make tough choices.  When confronted with bad choices, always make the less shitty one that provides the best result of the choices.  Ending an existential threat to the country and humanity -- well, that seems like a good choice.
But go ahead and vote for Willie, and watch Trump win Texas by a single-digit number of votes over Biden.  This race can be that close.  A vote for Willie is a vote for Trump to stay in office.  That's it.  That's the math.  That's a coward's way, but I won't let him slink under a rock and try to wish it away.

He’s just representative of the well heeled socially acceptable face of “I like the status quo because I benefit from the status quo.”

The basest of that ilk aren’t smart enough to hide behind pseudo intellectual arguments like he is. They try with their “economic anxieties” and false deflections about tax cuts and the like but they aren’t smart enough to keep the mask from falling off an revealing their real motivations.

The smarter ones mask it with seemingly appealing deflections like pointing at the problems of the intelligence community and federal overreach into the privacy of Americans; a real issue to be sure and one that most thinking people agree with.

When those arguments are used as a cudgel to defend Trump then anyone who pushes back gets accused of defending “the corruption of the intelligence community” despite the fact that it’s a totally separate discussion.

And to top it off it’s used as a reason to bolster their claim of “both sides” and a reason to not vote against Trump.

Frankly, I find those libertarians up on their high horse about problems that are about 674th on the list of bad shit we need to deal with much more odious than the dumb Trumpers.

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Pretty humorous watching some of you guys unpack your straw man.  

I guarantee you that I have voted for fewer Republicans in my life than [mention=593]Brisketexan[/mention]. He feels really bad about that though, performing a projecting flagellation for his own history of political short comings. 

I have made two political donations since 2016, one national, one state level. Both to democratic candidates. Prior to that, one fringe Republican candidate. The only person I would have considered a donation this presidential election cycle after the nominations played out was Amash, but he bowed out with the quickness.  

While some have suddenly found the cat birds seat from West Austin to project, pointing out the pain and suffering and cruelty inflicted by American politics on others WHILE PEOPLE DIE, there have been some of us who have been calling out the reality of American foreign policy for decades across multiple administrations.  Glad that a few of you have seem to come around to the plight of the situation, if only because of Trump. Hope that you guys find a way to stick around after January 2021.  But to be honest, I sincerely don't expect much in the way of persistence.  Much like all the STOP WAR NOW signs mysteriously disappeared from my former central Austin hood circa 2008, I expect much the same when Biden is in office. 

It literally takes the worst person in the history of American politics for some of you guys to pull your heads out of your ass and say hey, maybe there is a problem here. But you still fail to recognize the root of the problem. Insisting that any objection to our two party system, captured by the military and intelligence industrial complex, is really a step into the abyss. While you just goosestep right into the turns of the death spiral.  

A lot of words that boil down to 1) I admit that Trump is the worst leader ever, and 2) I’m not going to vote to remove him.

 

Pretty impressive.

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1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

I hope we have more votes for Biden and we bring an end to this shit show.

More votes is not a question. The only angle is how many votes will trump lose by in the popular vote. 

The electoral college is not really in question either at this point. 

It's going to be a landslide. 

Not sure why some of you guys are so worried about compelling the N of 1. 

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8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Pretty humorous watching some of you guys unpack your straw man.  

I guarantee you that I have voted for fewer Republicans in my life than @Brisketexan. He feels really bad about that though, performing a projecting flagellation for his own history of political short comings. 

I have made two political donations since 2016, one national, one state level. Both to democratic candidates. Prior to that, one fringe Republican candidate. The only person I would have considered a donation this presidential election cycle after the nominations played out was Amash, but he bowed out with the quickness.  

While some have suddenly found the cat birds seat from West Austin to project, pointing out the pain and suffering and cruelty inflicted by American politics on others WHILE PEOPLE DIE, there have been some of us who have been calling out the reality of American foreign policy for decades across multiple administrations.  Glad that a few of you have seem to come around to the plight of the situation, if only because of Trump. Hope that you guys find a way to stick around after January 2021.  But to be honest, I sincerely don't expect much in the way of persistence.  Much like all the STOP WAR NOW signs mysteriously disappeared from my former central Austin hood circa 2008, I expect much the same when Biden is in office. 

It literally takes the worst person in the history of American politics for some of you guys to pull your heads out of your ass and say hey, maybe there is a problem here. But you still fail to recognize the root of the problem. Insisting that any objection to our two party system, captured by the military and intelligence industrial complex, is really a step into the abyss. While you just goosestep right into the turns of the death spiral.  

I’ve been bitching about the IC since Hornfans when the NSA’s warrantless surveillance came to light (also quite a bit about torture and our policies of rendition and indefinite detention). A Biden administration won’t fix many of our IC’s myriad problems. Hell, it may not address any of them.  But you know, you know beyond a shadow of a doubt, that if Trump gets another four years we won’t have this IC or even the horrible bunch of assholes we had after 9/11, we’ll have something much closer to the KGB, the Stasi, or the gestapo.

Refusing to vote for Biden in a swing state is the same as a vote for replacing the current intelligence community with an American gestapo. So your protestations ring extremely fucking hollow.

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5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

It literally takes the worst person in the history of American politics for some of you guys to pull your heads out of your ass and say hey, maybe there is a problem here. But you still fail to recognize the root of the problem. Insisting that any objection to our two party system, captured by the military and intelligence industrial complex, is really a step into the abyss. While you just goosestep right into the turns of the death spiral.  

Thats not true. I think most of us do in some regard. The issue on your end is the belief that electing Biden just perpetuates the greater problem. Which I agree with. So we need an end.  

Is the end now? or do we need to burn the motherfucker to the ground? Some would argue we are there. I would argue that with the great digital divide and somewhere/anywhere cultural gap - that maybe there is no end. If there is no end then maybe we can force change with the mass we have around us. Yes, that is optimistic, but somewhere in here we have to be.

I know, no power structure self regulates. But something man. Something has to be new now. 

The current threat is life or death IMO. Its not even a threat about "saving the republic" or some other fairy tale shit. Its about staying alive. And Trump and his ilk want death and destruction at worst, and at best they are so inhuman and incapable of doing anything coherent that they are going to help cause death and destruction. 

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3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

A lot of words that boil down to 1) I admit that Trump is the worst leader ever, and 2) I’m not going to vote to remove him.

Only a few words to deflect some of the realities realized in that post. 

 

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16 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

 Much like all the STOP WAR NOW signs mysteriously disappeared from my former central Austin hood circa 2008, I expect much the same when Biden is in office. 

I was right there with you in 2008. 

This is different. Maybe just 10% different. But its different. 

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2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Refusing to vote for Biden in a swing state is the same as a vote for replacing the current intelligence community with an American gestapo. So your protestations ring extremely fucking hollow.

Histrionics aside, Texas is not a swing state.  

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4 hours ago, Anastasis said:

I know, anything less than uncritical acceptance of thinly sourced reports coincidentally timed for release as pivotal junctures related to withdrawal from Afghanistan is trolling.

 

Cause I mean, this stuff could never influence political posturing related to troop withdrawals from Afghanistan, right?

 

In a statement in response to questions, Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the majority leader, said he had long warned about Russia’s work to undermine American interests in the Middle East and southwest Asia and noted that he wrote an amendment last year rebuking Mr. Trump’s withdrawal of forces from Syria and Afghanistan.

“The United States needs to prioritize defense resources, maintain a sufficient regional military presence and continue to impose serious consequences on those who threaten us and our allies — like our strikes in Syria and Afghanistan against ISIS, the Taliban and Russian mercenary forces that threatened our partners,” Mr. McConnell said.

Take the fucking loss and move on already.  You’re better than this.

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3 minutes ago, staboner said:

Thats not true. I think most of us do in some regard. The issue on your end is the belief that electing Biden just perpetuates the greater problem. Which I agree with. So we need an end.  

Is the end now? or do we need to burn the motherfucker to the ground? Some would argue we are there. I would argue that with the great digital divide and somewhere/anywhere cultural gap - that maybe there is no end. If there is no end then maybe we can force change with the mass we have around us. Yes, that is optimistic, but somewhere in here we have to be.

I know, no power structure self regulates. But something man. Something has to be new now. 

The current threat is life or death IMO. Its not even a threat about "saving the republic" or some other fairy tale shit. Its about staying alive. And Trump and his ilk want death and destruction at worst, and at best they are so inhuman and incapable of doing anything coherent that they are going to help cause death and destruction. 

This is a little hyperbolic, imo. 

I think Biden is a lock.  I don't think anything really changes in a transformative way. 

I don't see Hope and Change Part Deux, Two Party Boogaloo really shaking out any different than the first verse. 

Sorry bro.  I was raised by a disappointing latch key. I hope that I am wrong.  But I wouldn't bet against it. 

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Just now, Fudge Nuggets said:

Take the fucking loss and move on already.  You’re better than this.

No, he's not.  

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12 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

Sooo, we can surmise that the IC 100% agrees with the report and that pence knew as well. Awesome. 

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Only a few words to deflect some of the realities realized in that post. 

 

One doesn’t need to deflect from red herrings. They are self-deflecting as irrelevant to the thread topic: you admit that Trump is the worst leader we’ve ever had, and as some pointless display of masturbatory moral superiority, you are effectively going to take action to re-elect him. On topic, asinine, and embarrassing for you.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

you are effectively going to take action to re-elect him.

What positive action, outside of your imaginary forced dichotomy, am I taking to re-elect Trump?

Edited by Anastasis

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25 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

More votes is not a question. The only angle is how many votes will trump lose by in the popular vote. 

The electoral college is not really in question either at this point. 

It's going to be a landslide. 

Not sure why some of you guys are so worried about compelling the N of 1. 

I hope you change your mind and vote for Biden. I also hope you’re right because this level of chaos is unsustainable.

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What positive action, outside of your imaginary forced dichotomy, am I taking to re-elect Trump?

In what is polling as a swing state, which could be decided by a very few votes, instead of voting for the opponent who could defeat him, you will vote for some symbol that gives you a meager superiority boner.

Or, TLDR version: math.

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24 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I’ve been bitching about the IC since Hornfans when the NSA’s warrantless surveillance came to light (also quite a bit about torture and our policies of rendition and indefinite detention).

Blame Bush for that shit, not the IC. 

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2 hours ago, F250 said:

He is a level headed poster and has been consistent with his views regarding American foreign policy and the IC. It's not like he suddenly pulled this opinion out of his ass. This thread is very much prone to group think and there isn't any room for nuance when it comes to anything surrounding Trump. It is possible to be critical of Trump and other things at the same time, acting as if it isn't possible is a clear indication that someone isn't a level headed poster.

You can get fucked too.  Just kidding.  Maybe.

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Have you eaten Mexican food in, say, Colorado or Iowa or Virginia?
Nothing wrong with Colorado Mexican food. Try Washington.

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1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

The idea that someone would happily risk the future of the country because they don't like the way the federal cops do things is lunacy.  There are two choices:  help Trump stay in power and take your chances that we devolve into an authoritarian cesspool with no say on anything whatsoever, or help get him out of office and cement the possibility that you could effect change down the road.

He’s apparently a single issue voter that picked one of the dumbest fucking issues ever to get fired up about.

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Best Tex-Mex I ever had outside of Texas was in Canton, Ohio. It was as if they opened a portal and transferred an entire restaurant along with the staff from the Southside of San Antonio.
There's a place like that in El Dorado Kansas.

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Just now, Beau Vine said:
1 hour ago, conVINCEd said:
Have you eaten Mexican food in, say, Colorado or Iowa or Virginia?

Nothing wrong with Colorado Mexican food. Try Washington.

Colorado's okay if you don't mind green chile smothered all over everything. Which is fucked, and which is why Colorado Mexican food can get fucked. 

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1 hour ago, F250 said:

I was addressing the IC discussion because it has merit and it was quashed pretty quickly because it was automatically interpreted as a defense of Trump which happens a lot here.

 

Well that and this is not a fucking IC thread. You know, the main rule of all message boards.

You want to lay out all the issues with our IC? Have at it. But when you repeatedly distract people from the conversation about Donald Trump in the Donald Trump thread then it makes it look like you're, uh, distracting people from Donald Trump in the Donald Trump thread. Anastasis deserves every bit of shit he gets about that after today's performance.

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36 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

intel is not to be trusted.  unless they're telling me about something they didn't tell me because they found the information not to be credible.  in those cases, they are straight-shooters with upper-management written all over them.

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2 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:
1 hour ago, conVINCEd said:
Have you eaten Mexican food in, say, Colorado or Iowa or Virginia?

Nothing wrong with Colorado Mexican food. Try Washington.

 

giphy.gif

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2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Well that and this is not a fucking IC thread. You know, the main rule of all message boards.

You want to lay out all the issues with our IC? Have at it. But when you repeatedly distract people from the conversation about Donald Trump in the Donald Trump thread then it makes it look like you're, uh, distracting people from Donald Trump in the Donald Trump thread. Anastasis deserves every bit of shit he gets about that after today's performance.

Meh, this is a meandering meta-thread of almost 400 pages. Some of y'all need to wring out your panties. 

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Colorado's okay if you don't mind green chile smothered all over everything. Which is fucked, and which is why Colorado Mexican food can get fucked. 
Something is wrong with you if you don't like green chile.

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18 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I hope you change your mind and vote for Biden. I also hope you’re right because this level of chaos is unsustainable.

I can appreciate that.  

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