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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez 

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On 7/23/2020 at 2:44 PM, SydneyCarton said:

I'm not sure what your point is, but she literally said in her video (which clearly you didn't watch) she's been called that before many times, and had people escorted from her bar before for calling her that...so exactly what is the point you're trying to make here?

My initial comment was based on an article where AOC said she’s never had a confrontation like this before, so I assumed it meant she had never been called a “fucking bitch” before until she came to Congress. I thought this was a pretty big deal considering she used to be a bartender, and people can be real assholes when they drink. That was the point I was trying to make. That a woman who worked in a bar had never been called a “fucking bitch” until she became a member of Congress. 

It turns out, that’s not the case. She’s been called a “fucking bitch” plenty of times at the bar where she worked and in public places like the subway. It’s become such a common thing for men to do to women, it even happens to a Congresswoman on the steps of the Capitol by one of her colleagues in front of the press. 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, MrBig said:

My initial comment was based on an article where AOC said she’s never had a confrontation like this before, so I assumed it meant she had never been called a “fucking bitch” before until she came to Congress. I thought this was a pretty big deal considering she used to be a bartender, and people can be real assholes when they drink. That was the point I was trying to make. That a woman who worked in a bar had never been called a “fucking bitch” until she became a member of Congress. 

It turns out, that’s not the case. She’s been called a “fucking bitch” plenty of times at the bar where she worked and in public places like the subway. It’s become such a common thing for men to do to women, it even happens to a Congresswoman on the steps of the Capitol by one of her colleagues in front of the press. 

I believe she was referencing being verbally assaulted by a literal work colleague in public. Out of curiosity, how do you feel about calling women Fucking Bitches? Sounds like you feel like it’s normal shit and not a big deal. 

Edited by SydneyCarton

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55 minutes ago, MrBig said:

That a woman who worked in a bar had never been called a “fucking bitch” until she became a member of Congress. 

Do you think there is a difference in perception in being insulted by a drunk too drunk to stand, vs. a colleague who has takeny an oath and is bound by a code of conduct to not act like an asshole?

1. A Member, Delegate, Resident Commissioner, officer, or employee of the House shall behave at all times in a manner that shall reflect creditably on the House.

You fucking bitch-ass dolt.

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19 minutes ago, Underdog said:

Hahaha...  he's toast! 

Wonder what the Men's Rights speaking circuit pays.

In Florida, probably a lot.

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1 hour ago, tantric superman said:

Do you think there is a difference in perception in being insulted by a drunk too drunk to stand, vs. a colleague who has takeny an oath and is bound by a code of conduct to not act like an asshole?

1. A Member, Delegate, Resident Commissioner, officer, or employee of the House shall behave at all times in a manner that shall reflect creditably on the House.

You fucking bitch-ass dolt.

You are talking to the guy responsible for the Over Gold epidemic.

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Can I still call a guy a fucking dickhead? Cause if I can’t I really don’t have any vocabulary left. Oh, and what if I was a senator and said it to Rand Paul?

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1 hour ago, Underdog said:

Hahaha...  he's toast! 

Good. You know he and those like him think he's just saying what everybody else thinks. He got called out by AOC who refused to sink to his level and modeled what Yoho should have been himself. Fuck that smug sexist. The Texas Congressman with him should be equally ashamed for not separating himself from Yoho in that moment.

I expect the right wing hate engine to take umbrage in the same way they don't like that black people can use the N-word but they can't. 

Shit needs to change. Thanks, Congresswoman Ocasio-Cortez.

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22 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Can I still call a guy a fucking dickhead? Cause if I can’t I really don’t have any vocabulary left. Oh, and what if I was a senator and said it to Rand Paul?

Illallowit.gif

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2 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

Wonder what the Men's Rights speaking circuit pays.

In Florida, probably a lot.

proud boys have an award for him 

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17 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

 


So after being accused of “doing the same thing to Sarah Sanders I went back and looked at all 1,897 posts in the SHS thread.

Here’s all my posts about her -

0f7a9ab36895fb7b31ef3aa21c858b2b.jpg
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(Commenting on the brouhaha when she got kicked out of that restaurant.)

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(Playing off the “Stephen Miller is Hannibal Lecter” joke but still kind of mean)

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0a17cfdc668817fb6748b67c8c1dc6e8.jpg
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6062b4f53971ce5f7f1cfa485dbd5859.jpg
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(Called her “Huckabeef”; weight adjacent insult. All other insults are gender neutral.)
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31a932939d591ac3d6e1380c5525049c.jpg
0cdae3a1063a0984d8d523955b11d313.jpg
(No insults just sympathy for their poor dogs.)
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(Comments on her not being attractive or thin enough for Fox News and being surprised they hired her.)
e637ef80989882e8dd56c5cdb8b09f87.jpg
(Called her Huckabeef again.)
f2cd02eee9404c2b947b05b1986d891f.jpg
(Commenting on her unprofessionalism.)
40bad668357c2d272936a15c24da2370.jpg
(Repost of a tweet insulting her intelligence.)
5fa2133738c6e1b4d51d9a8356955e03.jpg
(Angry that she’s the kind of woman this administration promotes.)
6e8de3d5867f2ff71120fd4301521a2e.jpg
(Called her a whale; mean comment.)
2f5122385b584835a539a0e496ac8344.jpg
(Surprise at her age.)
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(Joke)
016f9cee75e9f134fc6c1d60e1672023.jpg
(Confirming she has spawned.)

The implied weight jabs were probably over the line but I never once called her a “cunt”, “fat”, “twat”, “bitch” etc. or insulted her intelligence.

So I’m perfectly comfortable about my comments about SHS contrasted about the comments made about AOC.

I mean I never even said she only got her jobs because of who her father is!

There is nothing wrong with calling fat people fat because they are actually fat and yeah you called her fat. Nothing wrong with insulting someone's intelligence if they are stupid and yeah you called her stupid.

The only thing that was probably over the line was calling her wonkyeyed because that isn't something people can change. Being fat and/or stupid is a choice.

 

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Yep, if the person can't control it, it's off limits.  Like an ugly face or glandular disorder or mental retardation or being a child.  If the person chooses to be fat and/or ignorant and/or a liar, it's totally fair game.  That's been the first rule of public forum critique and the first rule of comedy for millennia.  

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24 minutes ago, F250 said:

Being fat and/or stupid is a choice.

 

You forgot drunk. 

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Can we go back to shitting on Penelope and Homesick because this conversation is fucking stupid?

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7 hours ago, Lobo said:

Yep, if the person can't control it, it's off limits.  Like an ugly face or glandular disorder or mental retardation or being a child.  If the person chooses to be fat and/or ignorant and/or a liar, it's totally fair game.  That's been the first rule of public forum critique and the first rule of comedy for millennia.  

I am completely okay with making fun of Stephen Miller's appearance. 

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As someone who's also fat, I'm okay with calling SHS fat.  We're allowed to say it to each other.  It's only not okay when skinny people say it.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/25/2020 at 6:18 PM, F250 said:

There is nothing wrong with calling fat people fat because they are actually fat and yeah you called her fat. Nothing wrong with insulting someone's intelligence if they are stupid and yeah you called her stupid.

The only thing that was probably over the line was calling her wonkyeyed because that isn't something people can change. Being fat and/or stupid is a choice.

 

I don't think I agree with the police work here, F250.

I think calling people fat is pretty much not allowed. It's body shaming, if the media has taught me anything, and discriminatory and a micro-aggression and actually feeds into the patriarchal system which is built upon women (and increasingly men) being in shape or being of Hollywood/media standards and if they are fat they are worth less as a person (e.g.both in hard costs make less money, don't get the job, viewed as less valuable, etc and in soft costs, not appreciated or held to the same standards as pretty people).

Also, I think that for women who would fight against misogyny and bodyshaming, they should be held to a better standard of allyship. There are many, many other real and valid reasons to criticize and even make fun if you have an itch to make hurtful comments online and want to scratch it, for someone like Sarah Huckabee. 

Be Better.

Edited by Rougarou

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Posted (edited)

@Rougarou, you remind me of a poster from the old site. I can't recall his handle specifically, but it was like DS-something. Is that you?

Edited by trauma babe

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

I don't think I agree with the police work here, F250.

I think calling people fat is pretty much not allowed. It's body shaming, if the media has taught me anything, and discriminatory and a micro-aggression and actually feeds into the patriarchal system which is built upon women (and increasingly men) being in shape or being of Hollywood/media standards and if they are fat they are worth less as a person (e.g.both in hard costs make less money, don't get the job, viewed as less valuable, etc and in soft costs, not appreciated or held to the same standards as pretty people).

Also, I think that for women who would fight against misogyny and bodyshaming, they should be held to a better standard of allyship. There are many, many other real and valid reasons to criticize and even make fun if you have an itch to make hurtful comments online and want to scratch it, for someone like Sarah Huckabee. 

Be Better.

Calling a fat person fat is fine. The issue is when it's used to imply that they're a less worthy person because they're fat. Which, admittedly, is 99% of the time someone calls someone else fat.

But if you asked me to describe Mark Mangino, fat (or more accurately, extremely morbidly obese) would be part of the description. It's a fact and it's an obvious identifier.

Ugly is less defensible as it's far more subjective.

Edited by Huckleberry
Damn voice to text

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Calling a fat person fat is fine. The issue is when it's used to imply that their a less worthy person because they're fat. Which, admittedly, is 99% of the time someone calls someone else fat.

But if you asked me to describe Mark Mangino, fat (or more accurately, extremely morbidly obese) would be part of the description. It's a fact and it's an obvious identifier.

Ugly is less defensible as it's far more subjective.

I see your point. I agree it should be an obvious and neutral identifier.

My wife used to comment that I had a habit of saying "the black lady or the asian man" or otherwise referencing someone's race when pointing out and specifying someone in a crowd, especially where there was only one "black lady" or "asian man" in a group. She said that is probably not very politically correct and I should use other descriptions, even if not the most efficient, e.g "the lady with the black hair and brown hat or the man with the black hair and yellow shirt", etc. for the benefit of our kids and their not seeing race as a differentiation in people. 

If the above is in anyway true and good and right, then I think "fat" also lives in that space in 2020.

Edited by Rougarou

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Page 225 is going hard in the paint with what's acceptable, what's over the line, and what's skating it.  I'm paying close attention.

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5 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

y'all are so fucking dumb and easily distracted. and yes, I hope you're offended

Actually, the people who allow themselves to get suckered into wasting time making comments on people like Huckabee's appearance are the dumb and easily distracted ones. Instead of focusing on her shortcomings as a spokesperson, thinker, liar, and human being the personal appearance attacks enable her supporters to ignore the substantive issues and dismiss the critics as hateful jerks with middle school mentalities. 

But you do you if it's just for online catharsis. 

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Posted (edited)

It just gets tiresome wading through dozens (sometimes hundreds) of unrelated posts to find anything that remotely pertains to the subject at hand. I like to come to surly a couple times a day and get updates. I don't want to spend hours scrolling through useless bullshit. I have better shit to do with my time, like masturbate.

Edited by Longhorn_Fan68

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37 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

y'all are so fucking dumb and easily distracted. and yes, I hope you're offended

Sometimes I feel dumb.y wife has ADHD and is easily distracted.  You have shamed us sir.  I demand satisfaction 

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On 7/25/2020 at 7:54 PM, Nivek said:

Can we go back to shitting on Penelope and Homesick because this conversation is fucking stupid?

Agreed and nsiap

spacer.png

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51 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

I like to come to surly a couple times a day and get updates. I don't want to spend hours scrolling through useless bullshit.

Does not compute. Surly exists for useless bullshit

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On 7/27/2020 at 8:21 AM, Rougarou said:

I see your point. I agree it should be an obvious and neutral identifier.

My wife used to comment that I had a habit of saying "the black lady or the asian man" or otherwise referencing someone's race when pointing out and specifying someone in a crowd, especially where there was only one "black lady" or "asian man" in a group. She said that is probably not very politically correct and I should use other descriptions, even if not the most efficient, e.g "the lady with the black hair and brown hat or the man with the black hair and yellow shirt", etc. for the benefit of our kids and their not seeing race as a differentiation in people. 

If the above is in anyway true and good and right, then I think "fat" also lives in that space in 2020.

This is an interesting point.

I guess I subconsciously(or I have been trained by society) to avoid race descriptions in situations where people are needing to be described.  I also wouldn’t refer to someone as fat if asked to describe them out of general manners.

A couple years ago I was at a restaurant outside Atlanta for a completely unremarkable evening.  At the end of the meal the waitress stopped showing up.  After 15 min of waiting I went to the hostess and asked to pay our bill.  I had picked up when we were seated that we were at table 15(or some such). So I explain to the hostess that we were wanting to leave and would like to pay our bill.  She asked for a description of our waitress.  She was a short, heavyset black lady. So I give her a description being as polite as I know how with description(hair color, general height, gender and the table we were at).  After a few back and forths and the hostess still unable to identify the waitress or produce a bill I said politely that she was heavyset and black.  The hostess recoiled as if I had used a slur to describe her.  I still don’t know if it was the weight description or race that caused the reaction.  Very bizarre situation overall.

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17 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

This is an interesting point.

I guess I subconsciously(or I have been trained by society) to avoid race descriptions in situations where people are needing to be described.  I also wouldn’t refer to someone as fat if asked to describe them out of general manners.

A couple years ago I was at a restaurant outside Atlanta for a completely unremarkable evening.  At the end of the meal the waitress stopped showing up.  After 15 min of waiting I went to the hostess and asked to pay our bill.  I had picked up when we were seated that we were at table 15(or some such). So I explain to the hostess that we were wanting to leave and would like to pay our bill.  She asked for a description of our waitress.  She was a short, heavyset black lady. So I give her a description being as polite as I know how with description(hair color, general height, gender and the table we were at).  After a few back and forths and the hostess still unable to identify the waitress or produce a bill I said politely that she was heavyset and black.  The hostess recoiled as if I had used a slur to describe her.  I still don’t know if it was the weight description or race that caused the reaction.  Very bizarre situation overall.

It was heavyset.  Never call someone heavyset.  There is nothing wrong with using race as an identifier in cases like that. Or weight if you use it more tactfully. 

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6 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

It was heavyset.  Never call someone heavyset.  There is nothing wrong with using race as an identifier in cases like that. Or weight if you use it more tactfully. 

Honest question, whats a more tactful weight description?  It obviously is subjective but I would find all these synonyms more objectionable (perhaps stocky is better).

In this page you can discover 12 synonyms, antonyms, idiomatic expressions, and related words for heavyset, like: blocky, chunky, compact, dumpy, squat, stocky, stodgy, stubby, stumpy, thick and thickset.

 

 

 

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I vote "Dumpy" and then see how many times your order will get pissed in at that restaurant for the rest of your life.  

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11 minutes ago, Lobo said:

I vote "Dumpy" and then see how many times your order will get pissed in at that restaurant for the rest of your life.  

Actually it would be the other, right?

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9 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Honest question, whats a more tactful weight description?  It obviously is subjective but I would find all these synonyms more objectionable (perhaps stocky is better).

In this page you can discover 12 synonyms, antonyms, idiomatic expressions, and related words for heavyset, like: blocky, chunky, compact, dumpy, squat, stocky, stodgy, stubby, stumpy, thick and thickset.

 

 

 

All are tough.  You generally want to avoid negative descriptors and stick with neutral or positive descriptors.  You wouldn't say she was the ugly one or the one with all the acne.

If her twin is there and the only difference between them is that one is heavyset.  Stocky is better.  Maybe say a little bit bigger or slightly overweight.

Or just say she was dumpy and ugly as homemade sin.

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13 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

All are tough.  You generally want to avoid negative descriptors and stick with neutral or positive descriptors.

Got it, going with “well utilized teeth” from here on out.

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36 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Honest question, whats a more tactful weight description?  It obviously is subjective but I would find all these synonyms more objectionable (perhaps stocky is better).

In this page you can discover 12 synonyms, antonyms, idiomatic expressions, and related words for heavyset, like: blocky, chunky, compact, dumpy, squat, stocky, stodgy, stubby, stumpy, thick and thickset.

 

 

 

Thick, that way it is actually more of a compliment. But really I would avoid it all together. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Thick, that way it is actually more of a compliment. But really I would avoid it all together. 

I tried to.  For an extended conversation.  I honestly had internal dialogue during my efforts to describe the waitress that the situation was a put-on or some sort of gag.

Edited by Incredulity

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Posted (edited)

"she was built when meat was cheap" usually gets the point across.

Edited by Blotto

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Curvy would be the nicest way but could come of as sexualized.

Obviously in a restaurant setting the servers are usually wearing the same clothing but in pretty much every other situation describing a person’s clothing or something like their hairstyle would be just as effective.

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3 hours ago, Incredulity said:

This is an interesting point.

I guess I subconsciously(or I have been trained by society) to avoid race descriptions in situations where people are needing to be described.  I also wouldn’t refer to someone as fat if asked to describe them out of general manners.

A couple years ago I was at a restaurant outside Atlanta for a completely unremarkable evening.  At the end of the meal the waitress stopped showing up.  After 15 min of waiting I went to the hostess and asked to pay our bill.  I had picked up when we were seated that we were at table 15(or some such). So I explain to the hostess that we were wanting to leave and would like to pay our bill.  She asked for a description of our waitress.  She was a short, heavyset black lady. So I give her a description being as polite as I know how with description(hair color, general height, gender and the table we were at).  After a few back and forths and the hostess still unable to identify the waitress or produce a bill I said politely that she was heavyset and black.  The hostess recoiled as if I had used a slur to describe her.  I still don’t know if it was the weight description or race that caused the reaction.  Very bizarre situation overall.

i mean this kindly, so please do not take this the wrong way.

but this is a very, very small case of institutionalized, unintentional racism.

imagine this situation, but with a white waitress. how would you describe her? 

i'll answer for myself, which is similar to where you started. i would start with hair color and style, maybe height. i wouldn't say "white girl" because it just wouldn't occur to me. i would probably say "i dunno, about 5 foot 8, curly red hair that was cut pretty short." that would get the hostess started and it probably wouldn't take long to find her.

i think as white people, we see black people as black people sometimes. it's a time honored joke that "they all look the same." most of us that did not grow up around black people are not trained to distinguish unique black characteristics, and it's something i've been working on more recently, but have largely failed.

i guess in your case, i would work on something about her hair. black folks' hair is a thing and probably the best place to start. what was her hair like?

but honestly, it is a weird situation, because the hostess should have known from your table alone who was waiting on you. i mean, that's her fucking job, to seat tables to spread out the workload for waitstaff. so i wouldn't feel too badly, except for the heavyset descriptor. that's always going to backfire.

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4 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

but this is a very, very small case of institutionalized, unintentional racism.

Why is red, brown or blonde hair or height any different than white, black or brown skin? Seems to perpetuate racism to think that identifying somebody by their skin color is somehow racist by default.  There is an implicit judgement there, that the value of an individual is determined by the shade of their skin color baked into that position. It's the thing that cannot be mentioned, because the implicit judgement exists. 

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