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Bevo VIII

Joel Osteen is a fraud meta thread

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IIRC his "church" was turning away people until they were called out on Twitter about it. He only did anything once it became a PR nightmare. 

Of course when so many people follow this guy it makes political sense to stay in good graces with him - and for his political donation$. 

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33 minutes ago, Radical Larry said:

I saw that on the news this morning. What a bunch of shit.

 

33 minutes ago, Radical Larry said:

I saw that on the news this morning. What a bunch of shit.

You can say that again

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This charlatan was turning people away from his church saying it wasn't to be used.  Special place in hell for people like him.   

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1 hour ago, Steamboat1874 said:

Proving once again how gullible religious people much a buncha suckups politicians can be.

Yeah, but the City of Houston ain't a church, nor religious.  This is 100% pandering to the masses.  Which is worse than gullible religious people.

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This charlatan was turning people away from his church saying it wasn't to be used.  Special place in hell for people like him.   

It was worse than that he was blaming the flood so people went there and took pictures of dry areas and space and the only part that had standing water was lower level of parking garage if I recall correctly.

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41 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

salvation is the easiest get rich scheme to sell.

Osteen isn't selling salvation. He's selling a feel good about yourself prosperity gospel and these days, it's much more profitable than selling salvation.

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And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.”

 

How many tens of millions has he racked up in the money bin over at his River Oaks mansion? A veritable mix of John the Baptist and Friar Tuck!

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If a church get's involved in politics and government, they should be taxed like any other organization that does so as well.  

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2 hours ago, Newdoc said:

Osteen isn't selling salvation. He's selling a feel good about yourself prosperity gospel and these days, it's much more profitable than selling salvation.

Did anyone at city hall or involved with the emergency response to the storm refute Osteen's claim that his church wasn't initially a refuge per the emergency plan that was in place?

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2 hours ago, crash_davis said:

tax them like any other entity.  they should have no special treatment.

They can branch off their purely charitable activities (homeless outreach, etc.) under a 501(c)(3) umbrella subject to the same requirements.  But they should pay property tax at least and other taxes same as everyone else. 

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3 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

I'd give my money to Roy Moore before I'd give it to Joel "Goat Boy" Osteen. At least you know Roy will use some of it to feed a horse.

#teamSassy

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28 minutes ago, 'stache said:

They can branch off their purely charitable activities (homeless outreach, etc.) under a 501(c)(3) umbrella subject to the same requirements.  But they should pay property tax at least and other taxes same as everyone else. 

what about the millions in donations that he gets from the thousands of idiots in his flock?

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28 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

what about the millions in donations that he gets from the thousands of idiots in his flock?

There will be some things to work out, but anything that comes in that results in his mansion and yacht are clearly taxable.  Fucking morons.

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3 hours ago, Bevo VIII said:


It was worse than that he was blaming the flood so people went there and took pictures of dry areas and space and the only part that had standing water was lower level of parking garage if I recall correctly.

That's why I've never, and will never, attend a church stadium.  Churches with parking garages and shit?!?!?!  GTFOH

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20 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

That's why I've never, and will never, attend a church stadium.  Churches with parking garages and shit?!?!?!  GTFOH

Actually, and I'm not really defending them, just clarifying, they share with the office complex next door to use their parking for the churchgoers after work hours and on weekends. 

I would know, I work and park here.  And fuck if you need to go into the office on Sunday, due the church crowds all day long.

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19 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Actually, and I'm not really defending them, just clarifying, they share with the office complex next door to use their parking for the churchgoers after work hours and on weekends. 

I would know, I work and park here.  And fuck if you need to go into the office on Sunday, due the church crowds all day long.

Ok, that makes partial sense.  It's still a church stadium.  

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57 minutes ago, 'stache said:

They can branch off their purely charitable activities (homeless outreach, etc.) under a 501(c)(3) umbrella subject to the same requirements.  But they should pay property tax at least and other taxes same as everyone else. 

You know the government will not do this.  On the grounds that it makes sense.

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Actually, and I'm not really defending them, just clarifying, they share with the office complex next door to use their parking for the churchgoers after work hours and on weekends. 
I would know, I work and park here.  And fuck if you need to go into the office on Sunday, due the church crowds all day long.

I used to work in Greenway Plaza. Sometimes overtime on the weekends. It did suck.

Oh yeah, and fuck this guy. What a piece of shit. I can’t believe people listen to him and give him money. I bet there are a few on this site.

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4 hours ago, formermav43 said:

Not a believer in separation of church and state?

yes we are, and that is why they need to be taxed like all other entities. 

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25 minutes ago, staboner said:

yes we are, and that is why they need to be taxed like all other entities. 

Not really. In most cases, it seems that those with the "tax churches" viewpoint are all for keeping the church out of the government but not the other way around. It's not a matter of principle but hostility to religion; that's implicit in the call to tax churches rather than all non-profits, for instance.

The Supreme Court has held that tax exemption is not only constitutional, but it reinforces the desired separation of church and state, where taxing churches would break that down (Walz v. Tax Commission). Taxing churches creates a relationship - the government has to assign value to what is taxed, and now the church is paying to support the government. Neither of those things is good.

The wall either works both ways or not at all.

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44 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

Not really. In most cases, it seems that those with the "tax churches" viewpoint are all for keeping the church out of the government but not the other way around. It's not a matter of principle but hostility to religion; that's implicit in the call to tax churches rather than all non-profits, for instance.

The Supreme Court has held that tax exemption is not only constitutional, but it reinforces the desired separation of church and state, where taxing churches would break that down (Walz v. Tax Commission). Taxing churches creates a relationship - the government has to assign value to what is taxed, and now the church is paying to support the government. Neither of those things is good.

The wall either works both ways or not at all.

I understand this argument, I just don't agree with it. 

A church is a property like others and by not taxing it the gov is treating the church differently than other parties, which in my mind violates the separation of church and state

if simply interacting with each other (as you note there "creates a relationship"), then what about a building code? a parking lot? special events with police working em..so what is an acceptable relationship then?

I don't have hostility to religion. On the contrary, I think the special treatment to date is holding religion practice back actually and limiting its ability to adapt and thrive. And its creating Osteens too. 

Edited by staboner

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2 hours ago, formermav43 said:

Not really. In most cases, it seems that those with the "tax churches" viewpoint are all for keeping the church out of the government but not the other way around. It's not a matter of principle but hostility to religion; that's implicit in the call to tax churches rather than all non-profits, for instance.

The Supreme Court has held that tax exemption is not only constitutional, but it reinforces the desired separation of church and state, where taxing churches would break that down (Walz v. Tax Commission). Taxing churches creates a relationship - the government has to assign value to what is taxed, and now the church is paying to support the government. Neither of those things is good.

The wall either works both ways or not at all.

The separation of church and state also applies to keeping church out of our government.  And if they try to influence our government like a PAC or any other organization then they should be taxed.    The biggest threat to our freedoms is when others try to legislate their beliefs upon others.  Have you ever lived in Utah?  I have and I've seen first hand how it creeps into the lives of everyone.  

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19 minutes ago, Shmitty said:

The separation of church and state also applies to keeping church out of our government.  And if they try to influence our government like a PAC or any other organization then they should be taxed.    The biggest threat to our freedoms is when others try to legislate their beliefs upon others.  Have you ever lived in Utah?  I have and I've seen first hand how it creeps into the lives of everyone.  

Agree completely.

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24 minutes ago, Shmitty said:

The separation of church and state also applies to keeping church out of our government.  And if they try to influence our government like a PAC or any other organization then they should be taxed.    The biggest threat to our freedoms is when others try to legislate their beliefs upon others.  Have you ever lived in Utah?  I have and I've seen first hand how it creeps into the lives of everyone.  

Well, every piece of legislation reflects beliefs.  Some are more commonly held than others.  Some are more clearly identified with religious philosophy than others.

 

The other reasons churches aren't taxes is that 99% of them, the ones you never read about, are a net social good, both for their own congregation and broader interests.  I think they should be scrutinized carefully to make sure they aren't used as profiteering or political  vehicles, but the vast, vast majority are not.

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