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A story about a pathetic man's downfall


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When you've lost Andy McCarthy....

Story is paywalled, but here's the upshot:

 
Quote

 

Former president Trump is likely to be charged with obstruction of justice and causing false statements to be made to investigators.

That is the upshot of a court submission filed by the Justice Department on Tuesday night, in response to the Trump camp’s belated motion for the appointment of a special master to review materials seized three weeks ago from the former president’s Mar-a-Lago estate.

 

 

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that shit is printed on that kinda paper (not sure the term) that cannot be photocopied and can blur itself to a photographic lens and/or flash.  

However, yeah I'm starting to tilt towards that he's just smart enough to understand that there's really nobody to throw under the bus when you wrongfully take SCI docs.  Unlike in business or even some parts of his Presidency, you can't blame it on somebody who literally in the physical world we find ourselves, could ever be in possession of those papers, ever.

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Showing them off to feed his ego, blackmailing, and offering to avoid jail are all too dangerous because you're letting someone else know you are yourself engaged in a very grave crime. You have to show the things to somebody in all of those cases. 
Selling them to foreign agent or turning them over to Putin because Trump was being blackmailed is a closed transaction. 
Writing this makes me think of something else. There was originally talk of nuclear secrets. We don't have any word that such documents were found. Trump and his boys are now making a thing of that. 
But...
I wonder if Trump doesn't have them because they've already been sold and handed over. Once a transaction is complete, holding onto a copy only serves to possibly incriminate you. Trump doesn't hold onto to things that can hurt him. If there are nuclear documents missing that may have been taken by Trump, I think the conclusion is obvious.
 
 

He also keeps talking about it. Which is sort of a tell.
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10 minutes ago, lemonlime said:


Really. The only things he understands are greed and his own ego. And he’s spent an entire lifetime committing crimes and getting away with them. And I doubt he knows how to read a coloring book, never mind State secrets. He took the papers with intent to sell them. I’m just not certain if it’s been proven that he did in fact sell them.

Selling state secrets is a little different that racially discriminating against tenants.

If the FBI had credible intel that he was selling them, they wouldn't have waited 18 months while NARA kept passive aggressively asked for them back.

Obviously, he didn't take the documents to read them or for sentimentality. And holding onto them to brag to your sycophants or for potential blackmail are serious damn crimes in their own right that should (but probably won't) come with some jail time. I just lean heavier towards the stupid than evil scale with all things Trump.

Don't get my wrong: he's fucked. But it's not going to be as satisfying as we all hope.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Selling state secrets is a little different that racially discriminating against tenants.

If the FBI had credible intel that he was selling them, they wouldn't have waited 18 months while NARA kept passive aggressively asking for them back.

Obviously, he didn't take the documents to read them or for sentimentality. And holding onto them to brag to your sycophants or for potential blackmail are serious damn crimes in their own right that should (but probably won't) come with some jail time.

Don't get my wrong: he's fucked. But it's not going to be as satisfying as we all hope.

 

 

I tend to agree re: outright selling them.

But granting access to someone like MBS, that he thinks he knows, for some favor or quid pro quo, or even just "admiration," is not beyond him.

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20 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

That's an example of the damned hyperbole that the anti-Trump press and pundits always seem to go for, without any basis in fact, that winds up undermining legitimate investigations and feeds talking points to the pro-Trump morons.

We are probably never going to know exactly what the documents covered.

There very well could be nuclear secrets in those documents. 

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Maybe I haven't followed this closely enough but has anyone given any reason or defended why he had documents with human intelligence assets (people spying for the US in other countries) in his possession?  He took that information for a reason, and I can't believe it was an accident that happened to be in the documents in Maro Lago.  If this part was just rumor then disregard this post but I thought that info was part of what he had taken. 

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Just glanced through the DOJ Brief, and there were a couple of interesting things I did not know:

  • When the 15 boxes were returned earlier in the year, NARA found classified documents that had been "unfoldered" (i.e. taken out of their folders containing the classified markings) and were intermingled with other records.  It is an accepted rule of nature that documents are inanimate and do not remove themselves from folders  and envelopes.
  • Some of the papers had been "torn up." 
  • The DOJ had  "multiple sources" of information that classified records remained at MAL after the attorney's certification to the contrary. 

Per Chuck Rosenberg (former federal prosecutor) on MSNBC last night, not only are classified documents maintained in the brightly-colored large-font-labeled folders, but the documents themselves have individual classification markings for each paragraph.  Once they are removed from the marked folders, anyone looking at the documents has immediate knowledge of their classification status.  

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5 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

Maybe I haven't followed this closely enough but has anyone given any reason or defended why he had documents with human intelligence assets (people spying for the US in other countries) in his possession?  He took that information for a reason, and I can't believe it was an accident that happened to be in the documents in Maro Lago.  If this part was just rumor then disregard this post but I thought that info was part of what he had taken. 

There is reporting that says documents containing the names of spies were intermingled with his personal stuff. Last night’s DOJ filing also said secrets were stored in “containers.” Those documents were in a damn box.

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When considering what Trump would or wouldn't do, keep the following in mind:

1. The intelligence agencies were the enemy.  They were out to get him from the start. 

2. Trump is insane and stupid.

It would take about ten minutes for Putin or MBS to convince him that intel contacts in the Russian or Saudi government were a threat to Trump and that he needed to provide their names to avoid being unfairly persecuted by the Deep State. 

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57 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

That's an example of the damned hyperbole that the anti-Trump press and pundits always seem to go for, without any basis in fact, that winds up undermining legitimate investigations and feeds talking points to the pro-Trump morons.

We are probably never going to know exactly what the documents covered.

Correct, “We can neither confirm nor deny” is the only allowable response to the public for any of this stuff. 

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46 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

There very well could be nuclear secrets in those documents. 

I'm going with the nuclear "bombshell" being disinfo surfaced by Trump or someone on his side to try to bait his adversaries into making it all a media-driven conversation about nuclear secrets, Rosenbergs, treason and the possibility of execution.  And then when it turned out to have nothing to do with nuclear secrets, he would look politically persecuted in the harshest degree.  "It was all a nothingburger, just like the russia hoax, the perfect phone call, all of it to persecute your favorite president, to even have me executed -- murdered -- when all I am guilty of is making America great again.  They will stop at nothing in their attempt destroy me, and they will stop at nothing in their attempt to destroy you.  So what are you going to do about it?"

Except no one really took the bait.  The only person trying to keep "nuclear" injected into the conversation is Trump, and there is no way he would be doing that if he had nuclear secrets at Mar-A-Lago.

Edited by Goredho
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4 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

Correct, “We can neither confirm nor deny” is the only allowable response to the public for any of this stuff. 

Oh, and you know that'll sit real fucking well with MAGA-nation.  

"What are they hiding?!?  This is all bullshit!  They can't even tell us what he stole so it was probably nothing but library plans!"  

-uh, it's sensitive national security intel.  aren't you a patriot?-

"Fuck you queer!"  

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10 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I'm going with the nuclear "bombshell" being disinfo surfaced by Trump or someone on his side to try to bait his adversaries into making it all a media-driven conversation about nuclear secrets, Rosenbergs, treason and the possibility of execution.  And then when it turned out to have nothing to do with nuclear secrets, he would look politically persecuted in the harshest degree.  "It was all a nothingburger, just like the russia hoax, the perfect phone call, all of it to persecute your favorite president, to even have me executed -- murdered -- when all I am guilty of is making America great again.  They will stop at nothing in their attempt destroy me, and they will stop at nothing in their attempt to destroy you.  So what are you going to do about it?"

Except no one really took the bait.  The only person trying to keep "nuclear" injected into the conversation is Trump, and there is no way he would be doing that if he had nuclear secrets at Mar-A-Lago.

Selling/providing espionage agents info is worse than documents on nuclear material. That's as old school treasonous as it gets. Benedict Arnold shit. 

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41 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

Maybe I haven't followed this closely enough but has anyone given any reason or defended why he had documents with human intelligence assets (people spying for the US in other countries) in his possession?  He took that information for a reason, and I can't believe it was an accident that happened to be in the documents in Maro Lago.  If this part was just rumor then disregard this post but I thought that info was part of what he had taken. 

 Most likely he just liked those documents and wanted to keep them

 

 

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1 hour ago, TexasEd said:

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/ishethough.png

But did they?  The fact they got a search warrant and went back to get the rest is kinda proof they did not accept it as indication of compliance with the subpoena. 

My guess is he was monitored closely at that point and they came to his house the moment he committed a major crime--like espionage.  

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7 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

 Most likely he just liked those documents and wanted to keep them

 

 

I don't buy it.  I mean, yeah, keep the documents that show we captured aliens at Roswell, faked the moon landing or who really killed Kennedy but taking the names of human assets just for the fuck of it doesn't make sense.  That type of info was taken for a reason.  Knowing what Trump really is all about, I would guess the reason was to make money in some way but that is just a guess.

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1 minute ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

I don't buy it.  I mean, yeah, keep the documents that show we captured aliens at Roswell, faked the moon landing or who really killed Kennedy but taking the names of human assets just for the fuck of it doesn't make sense.  That type of info was taken for a reason.  Knowing what Trump really is all about, I would guess the reason was to make money in some way but that is just a guess.

I think I said upthread but Cohen said in an interview that he thinks Trump kept this in order to blackmail anyone who tried to prosecute him for his many legal issues. 

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1 hour ago, Beau Vine said:

Get serious.  You wouldn't last two hours, let alone two days.

Change that to seconds and minutes, and who are you, my wife?

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Plus, non-refundable REEETAINERS are prima facie unethical.  But you could probably justify it for Trump.

Oh, the first few thousand are a reflection of my time at the prevailing market rates.  The remaining $19,995,000 is for "the sale and complete destruction of my personal and professional reputation for the rest of my days."  100% justified in this circumstance.

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I tend to agree re: outright selling them.
But granting access to someone like MBS, that he thinks he knows, for some favor or quid pro quo, or even just "admiration," is not beyond him.

That fits in with his MO and similar to how his mentor Roy Cohn handled things. You trade in favors and access and Uncle Sam wont be the wiser. And you let other people break laws. And you speak in non-absolutes and use buffers.
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Guy now lives in South Florida where what happens a lot this time of year?  
Guy spent four years monitoring natural disasters even though he ignored the uptick in them.  
Guy thinks nuclear warheads can breakup hurricanes.  
Guy is scared shitless a hurricane could damage his resort or his hair.  
Guy had access to nuclear warhead documents. 
 

I gotta draw you guys a sharpie picture here.  He stole the Nuke docs to protect us from hurricanes. 
 

shit now that I type that, I think that may end up being a defense strategy they viably consider.  Fucking simulation. 

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16 minutes ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

I don't buy it.  I mean, yeah, keep the documents that show we captured aliens at Roswell, faked the moon landing or who really killed Kennedy but taking the names of human assets just for the fuck of it doesn't make sense.  That type of info was taken for a reason.  Knowing what Trump really is all about, I would guess the reason was to make money in some way but that is just a guess.

Mentioned it on the other thread, but Trump is up to his eyeballs in debt to shady Russians. He may not have "Sold" anything, but he could have had a few guests over, left his desk drawer open, and left the room to take a piss for a few minutes.

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9 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

Mentioned it on the other thread, but Trump is up to his eyeballs in debt to shady Russians. He may not have "Sold" anything, but he could have had a few guests over, left his desk drawer open, and left the room to take a piss for a few minutes.

Hell, it probably takes at least twenty minutes of fumbling through his FUPA to find his mushroom.  

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18 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

Mentioned it on the other thread, but Trump is up to his eyeballs in debt to shady Russians. He may not have "Sold" anything, but he could have had a few guests over, left his desk drawer open, and left the room to take a piss for a few minutes.

My hope is there is some kind of evidence of this being the case.

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1 hour ago, Tuco said:

When considering what Trump would or wouldn't do, keep the following in mind:

1. The intelligence agencies were the enemy.  They were out to get him from the start. 

2. Trump is insane and stupid.

It would take about ten minutes for Putin or MBS to convince him that intel contacts in the Russian or Saudi government were a threat to Trump and that he needed to provide their names to avoid being unfairly persecuted by the Deep State. 

We don’t talk enough about #2 being the cause of our ongoing national dilemma.

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