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2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.


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Posted
32 minutes ago, Jive Turkey said:

the polls that are skewing the numbers towards Trump are all GOP friendly and the betting markets showing Trump leading are seeing big money thrown in by big GOP supporters.  and the GOP is now telling us that the machines are rigged bc they're flipping Trump votes to Harris.  see a pattern?  the GOP needs to convince America that Trump is winning this thing bigly heading into November 5 based on the polls and betting markets.  and when he starts getting crushed on November 5, he can say, "See, the Dems are cheating.  I had this thing locked up.  The machines are flipping votes.  Rigged rigged rigged!"

i'll trust Harris's internals suggesting that she can spare a night in Houston than the polls and betting markets.

You made me think of this recent New Yorker cartoon 

 

IMG_8627.jpeg

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Posted

Biden has been campaigning for Harris. Not a ton, because he's ancient and declining, but he's been out there especially in PA. If you were in the media, who would you want to cover? A largely irrelevant POTUS, or any of the many dynamic campaigners that Harris has working for her right now?

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Posted
1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

No, they don't. Anyone who doesn't think Trump back in office would be a very real and existential danger to Muslim-Americans is not reasonable.

The current administration is funding the massacre of thousands of Muslims. Y’all conveniently always leave that inconvenient fact out, as if Trump’s white nationalist rhetoric is the only issue. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

You won’t feel sorry for desperate people who end up hurt because they misjudged a rock-and-a-hard-place situation? That’s shitty. Again: go fuck yourself.

I generally agree with your takes but excusing Muslim Americans voting for a greater evil, in essence out of petulance, for a lesser evil is ethically indefensible.  

Edited by LCHorn
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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

There is a very real thing going on in politics right now where voters who should know better are telling themselves "Yes he'll be bad, but it won't happen to me.....hur dur....Inflation....Trump"  It's wild, but also your talking about people who couldn't answer a Tonight Show current events quiz but care enough to vote.  

I mean, I kind of get it from center-rightish lifelong Republican voters who think they'll get a bunch of policies they like and however awful he makes things for others, well, that's just not something they're going to see themselves. But if you're a Muslim or Latino American? His supporters are putting fucking kill lists together with you and your families on them! You're their first target, even before Jews! Fucking think about that! They hate you even more than they hate Jews. And SCOTUS just effectively gave Trump absolutely immunity (and previously upheld the Muslim ban).  How the fuck do you think they're NOT going to be a real threat to you?

Edited by wildcat09
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Posted
4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Fucking hell.  The fucking suicidal idiocy.  It's not about opting for a better choice. 

You and everyone else debating me on this assume that your judgment call (which I share) is necessarily correct. It’s not and the opposite argument is defensible morally and logically, even though I tend to think it’s wrong. 

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Posted
42 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Remember, they did media studies that the more negative she went on Trump, the more it hurt her numbers.  Voters responded way better to her positive ads.

This is what I've been saying! Normal people have learned to stop giving Trump attention, both positive and negative. She should be shouting from rooftops about olds no longer being stuffed in nursing homes, and for some reason she has not been.

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

This board:

 

She's focusing on the states that matter!  She's not dumb like Hillary!

She's leaving the states that matter! She knows it's in the bag!

Username checks out

36 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

2. Trump wins, and society becomes completely broken for at least a generation if not more. The "civil war" won't be an actual war,

Not sure about this. The civil Cold War is well underway and skirmishes happen all the time. The question is whether it goes hot. I don’t think it’s out of the question that a red state governor with large blue cities would deploy their highway departments as police forces when cities don’t bend to their will or deploy their national guards in the event of peaceful, non-riot, non-mass protest community resistance. I don’t think it’s out of the question that travel between cities and states could become something we can’t take for granted. 
 

To me clear- I am not saying that this happens if Trump wins, or that Trump losing even makes this less likely. I am saying that history suggests our current trend is towards division and chaotic fragmentation.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Posted
14 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

You won’t feel sorry for desperate people who end up hurt because they misjudged a rock-and-a-hard-place situation? That’s shitty. Again: go fuck yourself.

There are a lot of desperate people in this country that are not Arab-American who understandably feel they will end up hurt with a Trump administration. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Bateshorn said:

If Trump wins, and the Isrealis begin to carpet bombing Gaza and Southern Lebanon, while accelerating land seizures in the West Bank, this post is going to age very, very poorly. 

Before they do that, Trump will round up Muslims here, put them in actual camps, and then ship them to Gaza.

Then Bibi will level the place.

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Posted

For what it's worth, reporting on the Arab News/Yougov poll can found on Arab News and a ton of media outlets.  Where you can't find it is on YouGov.  I'm guessing the partnership did not include YouGov designing the survey and they aren't keen to publish it it under their name.  (Or maybe they are still cleaning up the report before publication.) 

Posted
Just now, LCHorn said:

I generally agree with your takes but excusing Muslim Americans voting for a greater evil, in essence out of petulance, for a lesser evil is ethically indefensible.

They’re not voting out or petulance, unless you think desperation to try anything to end the massacre of their friends and family is “petulant.” This isn’t a fucking tantrum. It’s a direct response to policy choices by the administration that resulted in the displacement and death of thousands of their fellow Muslims. 

Jesus fucking Christ. How hard is it to understand that genocide is a serious issue and it’s not childish to take a moral stand against it (even if that requires making risky trade offs)?

I’ve had these conversations with Muslim friends who are far from petulant or unreasonable. Their decision to withhold support from Kamala or even vote Trump are measured and account for the risks and tradeoffs. Which is a lot more than I can say for the knee jerk reaction of the head-in-sand crew on this thread.

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Posted
1 minute ago, LCHorn said:

I generally agree with your takes but excusing Muslim Americans voting for a greater evil, in essence out of petulance, for a lesser evil is ethically indefensible.  

Those numbers are horseshit, but remember that stupidity and reactionary impulses are not cured simply by being a member of a persecuted group. On top of that, there's plenty of Muslim Americans who hate Gaza and Lebanon for reasons that make sense only to them. I mean, for Christ's sake, Christian Walker exists.

Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

The current administration is funding the massacre of thousands of Muslims. Y’all conveniently always leave that inconvenient fact out, as if Trump’s white nationalist rhetoric is the only issue. 

First, that's not really accurate. That money was appropriated by Congress and there's no chance in hell you'd get this Congress to strip the funding, given that the GOP controls the House. 

Second, and more importantly, even if we stopped all support Bibi would still be carrying out his genocide.  He's not Biden's puppet and Biden has spent a year trying to rein him in.  Not trying hard enough, no, but his failings are in his outdated understanding of Israel and the US/Israel alliance, not in a desire to see Palestinians annihilated. Trump will gleefully encourage Bibi to exterminate every last Palestinian and he'll deport Palestinian-Americans to give Bibi more to slaughter. There's no reasonable argument that Trump won't be an exponentially larger threat to Muslims both here and throughout the world. 

Edited by wildcat09
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Posted
20 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

They aren’t voting for their own genocide, you Reaganist twat. They’re voting AGAINST an administration that has paid for and supported their genocide, betting (maybe wrongly) that change at the top can only improve things. 

But they ARE voting for their own genocide (if they do indeed vote for Trump). They may THINK that they are just voting against an administration that (rightly) is allowing Israel to run rampant, but IN FACT they will be voting for a policy that will be EXPLICITY genocide.

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Posted
18 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

No. What they see is a slaughter that is being supported by the current US administration, and they refuse to support it. I don’t think they’re making the best choice, because I believe Democrats are more likely to come to their senses and rein in Israel. But I also can’t blame them for (a) not voting for the party whose current leader is providing material support to Israel and (b) believing a change will improve the situation, because it’s already as bad as it can get.

If you can’t understand why someone might not vote for a party that currently has the power to stop a massacre but is instead paying for it, then you’re a fucking heartless idiot.

Generally agree, but I think the bolded part is very hard to have faith in seeing as the current VP evidently cannot (or doesn't care enough to) rein in her senile boss enough to stop sending weapons to aid in a genocide.  I mean, yeah there's *some* glimmer of hope that the Dems will tire of seeing dead children on social media and tell Bibi to get fucked, but it's hard to vote based on a glimmer.  Of course the other side is a damn-near guarantee that the suffering will continue so voting for the fascists makes zero sense.  Maybe the bad poll numbers are just very angry people venting and they'll come to their senses or at least stay home on voting day.

Posted
Just now, BrickHorn said:

 

I’ve had these conversations with Muslim friends who are far from petulant or unreasonable. Their decision to withhold support from Kamala or even vote Trump are measured and account for the risks and tradeoffs. Which is a lot more than I can say for the knee jerk reaction of the head-in-sand crew on this thread.

Then please share their measured analysis on the "risks and tradeoffs." Since we're missing the calculated political analysis involved while we wail and whine.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

The current administration is funding the massacre of thousands of Muslims. Y’all conveniently always leave that inconvenient fact out, as if Trump’s white nationalist rhetoric is the only issue. 

The previous, and proposed admin has said they will increase funding and support, which Israel will use to intensify their massacre.  This isn’t some sort of Sophie’s choice.  It’s bad but negotiable vs worse and hardline.  Choose worse and you reap what you sow. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Todd Gack said:

Generally agree, but I think the bolded part is very hard to have faith in seeing as the current VP evidently cannot (or doesn't care enough to) rein in her senile boss enough to stop sending weapons to aid in a genocide.  I mean, yeah there's *some* glimmer of hope that the Dems will tire of seeing dead children on social media and tell Bibi to get fucked, but it's hard to vote based on a glimmer.  Of course the other side is a damn-near guarantee that the suffering will continue so voting for the fascists makes zero sense.  Maybe the bad poll numbers are just very angry people venting and they'll come to their senses or at least stay home on voting day.

Your contention is that Kamala should have been trying harder to convince Biden to halt all weapons to Israel? And you want her to win the election? Because those two thoughts are completely incongruous. 

We'll see what her actions are as POTUS, but, right now, she has absolutely no choice but to walk the tight rope.

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Posted

one of the most annoying things when Blacks talk about racism to non-Blacks is the non-Black person insisting something isn’t racist when the Black person is sitting there telling you “YES, SHEILA, IT IS RACIST” and they keep responding with “no it’s not”

 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, pantone159 said:

But they ARE voting for their own genocide (if they do indeed vote for Trump). They may THINK that they are just voting against an administration that (rightly) is allowing Israel to run rampant, but IN FACT they will be voting for a policy that will be EXPLICITY genocide.

You say this and I tend to agree that a second Trump term will be far more dangerous to minorities. I’m terrified of it.

But consider the other perspective: the current administration is provably a disaster for Muslims in Gaza. Meanwhile, Trump was president for four years and his anti-Muslim rhetoric ultimately amounted to ineffective bluster. 

If you’re a Muslim-American who survived the Trump presidency (despite facing frightening rhetoric and policy proposals) but whose friends or family did not survive the Biden term, which one do you view as the greater threat?

I think they’re discounting the risk of Trump, but I can understand why they might make that analytical mistake.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

The previous, and proposed admin has said they will increase funding and support, which Israel will use to intensify their massacre.  This isn’t some sort of Sophie’s choice.  It’s bad but negotiable vs worse and hardline.  Choose worse and you reap what you sow. 

este.  Biden (and Harris) for all their faults on this issue, are the only thing keeping the slaughter to war based mass murder at this point.  If Trump wins, ethnic cleansing is going to be on the table. Settlers are already engaging in low intensity cleansing in the West Bank with the Army's tacit support, but quietly due to State Department objections. How is that going to look when Rick Grennell is SoS? 

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Posted
Just now, aggie08 said:

Your contention is that Kamala should have been trying harder to convince Biden to halt all weapons to Israel? And you want her to win the election? Because those two thoughts are completely incongruous. 

We'll see what her actions are as POTUS, but, right now, she has absolutely no choice but to walk the tight rope.

That's correct.  It's the moral thing to do.  Complete weapons embargo until Israel demonstrates that they're at least trying to avoid killing innocent kids - maybe force them to stop bombing schools and refugee encampments.

Winning the election has to be about more than just getting the most aipac money they can so they can buy ads telling people how horrible Trump is... everyone already knows.

Posted
23 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

Last election there were magatards trying to intimidate voters at the highland location.

AFD cruised up in their big fucking fire truck and unleashed a fire hydrant right at them.

It was glorious.

Hell yeah. That's my AFD.

Posted
1 hour ago, babysdaddy said:

I listened to Paul Tudor Jones this morning on CNBC and he said he expects deficits to increase $500B under Trump and another $600B on top of that if Harris wins.

Sure, sure, except this NEVER FUCKING HAPPENS THIS WAY.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

You say this and I tend to agree that a second Trump term will be far more dangerous to minorities. I’m terrified of it.

But consider the other perspective: the current administration is provably a disaster for Muslims in Gaza. Meanwhile, Trump was president for four years and his anti-Muslim rhetoric ultimately amounted to ineffective bluster. 

If you’re a Muslim-American who survived the Trump presidency (despite facing frightening rhetoric and policy proposals) but whose friends or family did not survive the Biden term, which one do you view as the greater threat?

I think they’re discounting the risk of Trump, but I can understand why they might make that analytical mistake.

The Kurds in Syria would say Hi… but a lot of them died when Trump abandoned them

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Posted
13 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

If Trump wins, and the Isrealis begin to carpet bomb Gaza and Southern Lebanon, while accelerating land seizures in the West Bank, this post is going to age very, very poorly. 

For the last time: I am not saying Trump will be better on Gaza. In fact, I believe he will be worse.

I am merely saying that reasonable people, based on a reasonable assessment of the information available to them, could conclude that he can’t be worse and that a change might improve things. And those same people might reasonably conclude, as a matter of moral principles, that they cannot support someone from an administration that has supported Israel in its Gaza actions. 

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Posted
8 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

They’re not voting out or petulance, unless you think desperation to try anything to end the massacre of their friends and family is “petulant.” This isn’t a fucking tantrum.

Bullshit.  The tipping point is absolutely petulance.  The thinking is "my people are suffering, maybe you'll give me what I demand if I make EVERYONE suffer." It's fucking electoral blackmail and terrorism.  Because it is not and cannot be any logical process of "Trump will be better for muslims and Gaza."  He has literally said, and actually demonstrated, that he will not be.

 

9 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

How hard is it to understand that genocide is a serious issue and it’s not childish to take a moral stand against it (even if that requires making risky trade offs)?

It's not a "risky trade off."  The fucking Leopard said he will eat your face.

 

16 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

The current administration Longstanding bi-partisan American policy is funding the massacre of thousands of Muslims. Y’all conveniently always leave that inconvenient fact out, as if Trump’s white nationalist rhetoric is the only issue. 

FIF accuracy, and a point that - if your guys claim to be thinking rationally (they're not, it's a tantrum -- "if I can't what I want, EVERYONE must suffer") - they would fucking see because it's been a neon-bright consistency of American policy for at least two generations.

No, they know exactly what they are doing, and exactly what they are voting for: they don't see a prospect of ending Palestinian suffering and securing victory for Gaza anytime soon, under any candidate.....so they intend to make everyone else feel some measure of that same pain.  Fuck the latinos who will get fucked.  Fuck the gays.  Fuck the women.  Maybe if they suffer enough pain, they'll join us in a "coalition of the suffering" and give us the ultimate victory we want.  It is absolutely electoral terrorism, and I loathe them for it.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Your contention is that Kamala should have been trying harder to convince Biden to halt all weapons to Israel? And you want her to win the election? Because those two thoughts are completely incongruous. 

We'll see what her actions are as POTUS, but, right now, she has absolutely no choice but to walk the tight rope.

Do you agree that tightrope changes when one side says "you have my vote no matter how much you ignore my concerns"?  

Posted
1 minute ago, bluto said:

The Kurds in Syria would say Hi… but a lot of them died when Trump abandoned them

Not long before he tried criticizing the Biden admin for the pullout of Afghanistan that Trump had negotiated. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Tuco said:

Do you agree that tightrope changes when one side says "you have my vote no matter how much you ignore my concerns"?  

You're going to have to spell this one out for me. I don't follow.

Posted
For the last time: I am not saying Trump will be better on Gaza. In fact, I believe he will be worse.
I am merely saying that reasonable people, based on a reasonable assessment of the information available to them, could conclude that he can’t be worse and that a change might improve things. And those same people might reasonably conclude, as a matter of moral principles, that they cannot support someone from an administration that has supported Israel in its Gaza actions. 

Many reasonable people concluded that Reggie Bush had a better 2005 season than Vince Young, yet that doesn’t mean their opinion has any basis in reality or should be considered worthwhile.

Concluding Trump will be better for Muslims is dumb. Asinine. Stupid. Insane. Moronic. On and on. I understand that this group is facing a trying time, but that doesn’t mean we need to try and rationalize their ignorance to reality.
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Posted
2 minutes ago, Tuco said:

Do you agree that tightrope changes when one side says "you have my vote no matter how much you ignore my concerns"?  

The playing field is the playing field.  Let the other side offer a better alternative if they want the Muslim votes. That’s what would force a policy change.  The idea that Trump can get their vote despite notably worse rhetoric and history doesn’t fit either. 

Posted
5 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

I am merely saying that reasonable people, based on a reasonable assessment of the information available to them,

NO, they have been fed disinformation and propaganda to get a result.

It worked.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

if your guys claim to be thinking rationally (they're not, it's a tantrum -- "if I can't what I want, EVERYONE must suffer"

Holy shit that is the most gloriously ironic example of self-delusion I’ve ever read on this board. Are you serious? 

You understand that this entire discussion started because several posters reacted to reports of Muslim support of Trump by freaking out and wishing harm on them? 

If you’re looking for people having tantrums and demanding that anyone who doesn’t do what they want must suffer, look in the fucking mirror.

Edited by BrickHorn
Posted
5 minutes ago, bluto said:

The Kurds in Syria would say Hi… but a lot of them died when Trump abandoned them

And we just barely avoided a direct war with Iran (that Trump pretty clearly wants to get back to) thanks to... a pandemic breaking out.

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Posted
10 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

They’re not voting out or petulance, unless you think desperation to try anything to end the massacre of their friends and family is “petulant.

 

11 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

I’ve had these conversations with Muslim friends

Sorry dude, you read like someone who, by virtue of friendship, has had their reason compromised.  And I would say the same to someone who has family in Gaza-they just aren’t able to make smart decisions at the moment.  
 

It’s unfortunate that there’s so many innocents caught up in the violence, but the cold reality is the policy of the United States remains supportive of Israeli agency over alternatives and they should be voting for a Harris presidency that promises to at least show compassion to the Gazans who have lost so much.  

Posted
1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I can't speak for Arab Americans, but my experience with Iranians is that a lot of them like Trump as well. 

My stab at why: They don't necessarily have an issue with a dictatorship or a fascist, power hungry leader. They think there is a possibility of good ones and bad ones. And they think Trump would do good. 

 

 

People that emigrated from oppressive regimes, especially communist ones, seem to strongly prefer dictatorship to anything that might in some way be considered socialist. 

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Posted
11 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

You say this and I tend to agree that a second Trump term will be far more dangerous to minorities. I’m terrified of it.

But consider the other perspective: the current administration is provably a disaster for Muslims in Gaza. Meanwhile, Trump was president for four years and his anti-Muslim rhetoric ultimately amounted to ineffective bluster. 

If you’re a Muslim-American who survived the Trump presidency (despite facing frightening rhetoric and policy proposals) but whose friends or family did not survive the Biden term, which one do you view as the greater threat?

I think they’re discounting the risk of Trump, but I can understand why they might make that analytical mistake.

You're wasting your energy. Like 80% of the posters in this thread would rather not have to think about the situation in the first place or how the Biden administration is handling it.

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Posted

Nobody wished harm on them that I recall. They said they wouldn't feel bad when it happened. That's a significant difference. 

Also, you are incorrect that a reasonable assessment based only on Arab relations would result in a vote for Trump. That's an absurd thing to say, really. Your argument makes more sense when you stick to ascribing their decision to emotion (they've seen people die) than reason. Because reason doesn't explain it, not even close.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Hank Kingsley said:

I can't speak for Arab Americans, but my experience with Iranians is that a lot of them like Trump as well. 

My stab at why: They don't necessarily have an issue with a dictatorship or a fascist, power hungry leader. They think there is a possibility of good ones and bad ones. And they think Trump would do good. 

 

 

Yes, we've all met Icono. 

58 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

To share a bottle of whiskey with Brisket on the ledge, we are a few weeks a way from these 2 scenarios: 

1. Trump loses, and there will be blood in the streets again. For those of us paying attention, we were not surprised at all with what happened on January 6th.  Trump will deny election results but since he's not in power right now that will be tamped down legally fairly quickly. Eventually Trump makes the decision to run in 2028, or leave the country, or makes a deal to avoid jail time. If he goes away (inshallah), the GOP is in shambles and there is a glimmer of hope to pick up the pieces of American society and function again. 

2. Trump wins, and society becomes completely broken for at least a generation if not more. The "civil war" won't be an actual war, but a clear separation within communities that will happen swiftly and silently. People will just find their tribe and hold on for dear life. It's already kind of been happening, but it will be much more obvious and the general apathy towards each side will make a lot of institutions in this country crumble. 

 

If Trump loses, I don't think there will be fucking shit in the streets. These people are, at heart, all cowards. They won't be flocking to Washington while he's not President-elect or currently in office. They're not going to start a massive, organized protest organically somewhere else in the country. If he loses GA do we think a bunch of fucking racist whities are going to show up and try to Sherman the city of Atlanta? I don't, but holy shit I'm here to see it and will pop the fucking popcorn. Outside of my own amusement, hell, it's probably good news for the country long term for everyone to see what the R party supported. Sure, start some shit in a swing state. Or Florida. See what happens in real time and how that state votes for the next 15 years. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, mdmost said:

Or some of us know there's literally nothing Biden can do that won't lose Kamala votes. He withholds funding to Israel, he gives Trump an easy issue to rail on and he loses her Jewish votes. He doesn't do anything, he loses her Muslim votes. 

It’s lose lose and Trump/Bibi have ensured that

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Posted
Just now, Dahobbs said:

The bolded is asinine. Reasonable people cannot conclude that. Unreasonable or ignorant people, sure. Desperate and panicky people, maybe. But, based on available information, there is no reasonable, logical argument that Trump will be anything but worse for that group of people. 

Okay then. Lay out your argument. 



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