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Posted
3 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I like that Texas has taken a Lia Thomas situation off the table, limited as that may be to this state and location of competition in collegiate postseasons, and the sheer (lack of) volume of Lia Thomas type incidents. Period. 

So one athlete competing for a school in… checks notes… Pennsylvania warranted the full might of our state government, the one with a legislature that meets once every two years for 140 days, to spend the time and resources to pass a law banning trans athletes? And people bitch that our government doesn’t get anything done? 

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Posted
23 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Pedantry doesnt make a good substitute for an actual point.

I dont know which hospital you went to, but the doctors knew the gender before my child was born, there was no declaration needed after delivery.

Please explain the process the doctors followed to identify the gender of your child before it was born.

Posted
14 minutes ago, hornbri said:

 

Ehhh, I think they are wrong but this is not the main point, arguing that she is not the best player so it should be allowed is dumb. 

If you are against her playing, you don’t care if she is the best player or worst player. You are against it all the time and would not wait for it to be a dominate player.

The entire reason for this being a topic is that a bunch of disingenuous political people are presenting it as a big bad bearded man dressed as a woman dominating a bunch of helpless women.

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Posted (edited)

here's where this will go, i'm 99% certain. trans athlete bans will continue to occur in states that also block childhood transition. where it should go is kids with the help and guidance of medical and psychological should be allowed to transition making this all a moot point - even in college and pro ranks. Will that happen? not in my lifetime. Will the bans be lifted when kids are allowed to access medical care for gender dysphoria? they should, will they? I'm afraid probably not.

I hope the federal government stays out of it and let's the athletic governing bodies handle it and when the right course of action is adopted - broad allowance for kids to transition with medical and psychological guidance that those trans girls and women are treated no differently given the fact that they went through only one puberty.  While I think steadfastly an interim solution can be found while we wait for the tidal wave of hate to pass so trans health care can be routinized free from political hate, in the end, the answer is let trans kids receive the treatment they deserve and all of this becomes unnecessary. and I, an adult transitioner would gladly accept that's just life for those who transition later if early transition was accessible everywhere for those that needed. Because in the end that gives trans athletes an objective path and right to compete - do these things and you can compete in the class aligned with your gender, that's the only thing we really want and need is a clear path that we can control in order to participate. right now it's unsettled, unfair, and fraught with discrimination and fear of retaliation and causes athletes to give up, to hide, and more.

and with that, I really have said all I can say on the topic. so as Rooster Cogburn said when the trail ran cold, "Our engagement is terminated. I bow out."

 

Edited by troph
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Posted
22 minutes ago, Rex Kramer said:

I like that Texas has taken a Lia Thomas situation off the table, limited as that may be to this state and location of competition in collegiate postseasons, and the sheer (lack of) volume of Lia Thomas type incidents. Period. 

I’m just not gonna opine on abortion. I’ll just say I’m pro choice. 

You should really ask yourself why you're glad about that. It was a non issue for you and pretty much every other Texan. It didn't need a law at all. You need to see this exactly for what it is. You're promoting hate whether you realize it or not. 

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

You should really ask yourself why you're glad about that. It was a non issue for you and pretty much every other Texan. It didn't need a law at all. You need to see this exactly for what it is. You're promoting hate whether you realize it or not. 

Gotta love people who have been given every advantage in life, everything is great for them, yet they still have a need to constantly complain about everything.

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Posted
54 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Fucking....THIS.

Any issue/problem, even a small one, deserves a fair solution.

None of the dialogue about it is driven by that desire.  None.  Zero.  Sure, what athletic governing bodies are trying is driven by that goal, but none of the "ZOMG we HAFTA DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS IMPORTANT ISSUE!" crowd acknowledge or accept that.

And the amount of energy and attention this is getting, in relation to how big an issue it actually is?  Shit, it would make about as much sense to shut down the entire country to protect against bee stings (which actually KILL 50-100 people a year).  Wouldn't you agree that something that KILLS 50-100 people a year is more important than something that tilts perhaps a handful of amateur athletic competitions each year?  WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE BEE STINGS??????

Stupid. Pure manipulation of the rubes, who are so feverishly dancing the music played for them they can't see how foolish they look.

You are simply too reasonable.

Posted
22 minutes ago, immamac said:

https://sjsuspartans.com/watch

Tonight at 8PM. Watch and provide screenshot or you can no longer participate in thread. 

If you can't even be bothered to watch you can't possibly have a real opinion. If you don't have a real opinion you are trolling. 

Can someone photoshop this guy on a volleyball court with a bunch of wimmenz? Maybe he will calm down.  

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Posted
13 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

i don't understand how or why this is the next political culture war.

If something does not change, Republicans are about to be destroyed at the ballot box by suburban moms.  You know, those women that turn into cocaine bear when someone looks crossly at their cubs.  This is about trying to distract their attention from Roe V Wade and their daughters right to personal health autonomy being taken away by Republicans.  Just like they want them focused on their pets being eaten by immigrants.

JD Vance said it at the debate, they will exaggerate and fabricate to get people talking about what they want.  Unsaid in that is an implication that they will exaggerate and fabricate to get people to stop talking about what they don’t want them to talk about.  This is all an attempt at distraction in the lead up to November 5th.

95iwg6.jpg

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

You should really ask yourself why you're glad about that. It was a non issue for you and pretty much every other Texan. It didn't need a law at all. You need to see this exactly for what it is. You're promoting hate whether you realize it or not. 

We all understand why these guys want to hold their positions in a vacuum. I don't even bemoan their desire to do so. 

...it's just completely unrealistic.

As troph has stated far more eloquently than I can: this isn't just about sports. Governments and school boards aren't suddenly taking an interest in this issue because of their unrelenting pursuit of fairness and protecting women. It's a culture war, and this is an attainable first step since, simplistically speaking, most do agree that born males generally shouldn't be competing in female sports. It's just getting their foot in the door though. These groups have made it plainly clear that removing these communities from polite society and keeping them as outcasts is their end goal. "There are only two genders!" "What is a female?"

Like others, I have seen firsthand how many people seem to suddenly, passionately care about transsexuals run amok in our schools and LGTBQ+ grooming because of what they hear on TV and podcasts. It's disturbing. And it's stoked and encouraged by an entire political party. Troph should be fearful of the future.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Stupid. Pure manipulation of the rubes, who are so feverishly dancing the music played for them they can't see how foolish they look.

I think it's as simple as being one of the few 'MAGA' positions where there is likely pretty clear majority support to the extent there was actually an issue.  If, in reality, you had biological males playing against biological females across all sports for 2 or 3 teams in every district with many of those biological males being really good players and dominating games, it would be an actual issue that would be unpopular as the majority (even non-MAGA) would take the position that seems inherently unfair.  Of course, that's not happening in the real world.   But trying to pretend it is an issue is a political winner and we live in the year 2024 where online outrage about shit like this gets people fired up. It is what it is.

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Posted
16 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Guess again

image.png.3830b753331ee17bef7e87124c6c512a.png

Birth sex only! 

Remember,  @52-80 approves of that result where the trans boy destroyed non-transitioning girls in competition because the doctor saw a vajayjay.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

Texas

Florida

 

Maybe you are trying to quibble about the qualifier of “young” but these rules affect jr high and freshmen which as a father of daughters I absolutely consider young.
 

Its not a quibble to point out that none of us are legislators in the middle of writing laws.

You’re on this message board now, with us, arguing our positions. I stand by mine so if you’re gonna debate it I’d rather you stick to that, or those of other members, but not extraneous parties whose opinion I dont care to defend. 

 

Posted
12 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Birth sex only! 

Remember,  @52-80 approves of that result where the trans boy destroyed non-transitioning girls in competition because the doctor saw a vajayjay.

Non sequitur!!!

-52-80, probably 

Posted
2 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Its not a quibble to point out that none of us are legislators in the middle of writing laws.

You’re on this message board now, with us, arguing our positions. I stand by mine so if you’re gonna debate it I’d rather you stick to that, or those of other members, but not extraneous parties whose opinion I dont care to defend. 

 

So you want to pretend that laws directly pertaining to this discussion don’t exist for the purposes of argument on this board? 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

In case anyone needed any more proof that the forfeits are nothing more than political theatrics. 

Like Mike Pence showing up at a Colts game just so he could storm out when athletes knelt during the national anthem. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, hornbri said:

 

Ehhh, I think they are wrong but this is not the main point, arguing that she is not the best player so it should be allowed is dumb. 

If you are against her playing, you don’t care if she is the best player or worst player. You are against it all the time and would not wait for it to be a dominate player.

They’re not actually against her playing. They’re against her existing. In case you hadn’t figured that out yet. 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

So you want to pretend that laws directly pertaining to this discussion don’t exist for the purposes of argument on this board? 

Seriously. If we were to follow the OP--as I'm sure was the intention (wink, wink)--the argument shouldn't be about transsexuals' place in sports, but rather if we think the Wyoming State government overstepped in pressuring the University to forfeit.

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Posted
23 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

It is so ridiculous this is an issue. And I was told this wasn’t an issue. A fabricated deal. Glad that 25 (26 I thought) states have barred males from participating in women’s sports. Glad my daughters and I live in Texas. 

It's not an issue, as evidenced by the fact that the one time it occurs it causes national headlines and prompts a six-page (and counting) thread on the Surl.

If it were an issue, then it would be so commonplace that it wouldn't even earn your (or any other poster's) notice.  You'd be like "pfft--another one.  That's some bullshit."

Kind of like how Americans are about school shootings now.  That's an issue.  And Americans' callousness and non-recognition of when another one happens tells you just how big an issue it is.

This, however, is completely fabricated.

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

So you want to pretend that laws directly pertaining to this discussion don’t exist for the purposes of argument on this board? 

I dont pretend youre speaking on someones elses behalf and id rather you try do the same.

The purpose of the direct reply is to address someone. If you want make a general commentary on the law, do it without quoting me.

I asked who in here argued for excluding kids. You joked around it and then dropped a link to Florida. Do you see the disconnect?

 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

I asked who in here argued for excluding kids. You joked around it and then dropped a link to Florida. Do you see the disconnect?

 

Even ignoring your categorization of trans athletes as cheaters, it takes some real mental gymnastics here to convince yourself that you're not ultimately okay with excluding kids, even if deemed for the "greater good."

 

Quote

“What about people who are truly biologically dimorphic or socially nonbinary/trans in completely earnest manner and genuinely arent trying to cheat”. Compete in the open category. If your condition represents 1% of the population you should not get to supercede 50% of the population. Nothing against you in any other respect.

 

Posted
4 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

asked who in here argued for excluding kids

This is the direct quote I responded to with pertinent links:

2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

 

Now would you explain who is floating the idea of blocking young girls from playing sports? Are they in the room with us now?

Now I’m sure you are going to try to say “are they in the room with us now?” Was a legitimate way to frame the discussion as limited to posters rather than sarcasm

 

as I said, stupid or a troll 

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Posted
17 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

It's not an issue, as evidenced by the fact that the one time it occurs it causes national headlines and prompts a six-page (and counting) thread on the Surl.

If it were an issue, then it would be so commonplace that it wouldn't even earn your (or any other poster's) notice.  You'd be like "pfft--another one.  That's some bullshit."

Kind of like how Americans are about school shootings now.  That's an issue.  And Americans' callousness and non-recognition of when another one happens tells you just how big an issue it is.

This, however, is completely fabricated.

Nonsense! According to Rex, 90%+ of the population agree that the government should continue stepping in and defining gender to stop these huge, frequent injustices, and he's lucky to live in one of the 25 states with the courage to do so! And I'm sure if I were to list those 25 states, it wouldn't seem politically fabricated at all.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Even ignoring your categorization of trans athletes as cheaters, it takes some real mental gymnastics here to convince yourself that you're not ultimately okay with excluding kids, even if deemed for the "greater good."

 

 

I didnt call them cheats. Thats your characterization. 

I said the class of biological males have undisputed athletic advantages over biological females, and therefore thats how they should be grouped. 

I said kids can play whatever they want. It’s low-stakes competition. Nothing lost nothing gained. 

Finally, I said that the ultimate authority belongs to the participants and organizers — the actual stakeholders. But as individuals we are entitled to have and express an opinion on it. 

Of course you of all people would misrepresent those points and distort it as hating kids and etc. Thats as predictable as the globetrotters beating the generals. 

Posted (edited)

In regards to those advocating sports being completely co-ed and solely based on performance.

I'd think about the psychological damage that would do to girls starting about the age of 13 when they will inevitably in large numbers get demoted from the advanced teams.

From my personal kids sports viewing I would think 100% performance based teams to be quite mixed gender until around that point.

 

Edited by Incredulity
Posted
21 hours ago, Brisketexan said:


Watching men’s 3 on 3 is damned near as bad - it’s a terrible game. That’s not because of gender, it’s because the game sucks.

You are partially right - Although, I've enjoyed watching a few games with guys like Carmelo who were unstoppable in a 3on3 setting. The difference is that the men are jacking up shitty 3s and throwing bad alley-oops. The women are all below the rim, missing layups, dribbling the ball out of bounds, passing out of bounds, and slow...

Posted
Just now, Bevo said:

missing layups, dribbling the ball out of bounds, passing out of bounds, and slow...

Sounds like a Shaka Smart Texas team 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Sounds like a Shaka Smart Texas team 

image.gif.6faa4d20b4978de9568cbbbb97344448.gif

 

What I really needed was a laugh, cry and fuck you analogy. Too much emotion to your point.

Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

I didnt call them cheats. Thats your characterization. 

What? YOU posted this verbatim: 

Quote

“What about people who are truly biologically dimorphic or socially nonbinary/trans in completely earnest manner and genuinely arent trying to cheat”. Compete in the open category. If your condition represents 1% of the population you should not get to supercede 50% of the population. Nothing against you in any other respect.

I haven't seen anyone else use the word "cheat" to describe these athletes. You introduced it. I don't think you meant anything malicious by it, but you did. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

In your example above--the "truly biologically dimorphic" athlete that fits better in most metrics as a female--and lives their life as a female--they aren't getting excluded because they can't physically hack it in the men's/open division?

23 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

Of course you of all people would misrepresent those points and distort it as hating kids and etc.

I've done no such thing. I don't think you hate kids. I agree with a lot of what you've said here. You just distance yourself from why this discussion is happening so much more often, and the public manipulation taking place that's purposely bringing undo hate and discrimination upon vulnerable groups because it's the convenient thing to do. I mean, I get it. I don't even blame you. But it--and your schtick in general--is just tiring, dude. 

Edited by aggie08
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Posted

Unlike Immamac, I see this thread as important. This discussion is not about the volleyball game. It’s not about transgender participation in athletics. It’s about how the mind of the public is manipulated for political gain. 

The current Republican formula for successfully gaining support is to take an emotional issue, like this or immigration for example, and establish a very simple idea that people can rally around. “Of course no one wants to see transgender men unfairly have advantages over women in sports, they say. Of course we don’t want millions of people pouring across the border, they say.”

In a two minute sound bite society, most people have no time or interest to explore an issue further. Some of those people are bigots, racists, or misogynists.  But many aren’t. They just have a simple viewpoint based upon a ten second reflection. So better border control sounds good  banning men from women’s sports sounds reasonable.

Then the people who are more educated on the topic call those people racists, misogynists, and bigots. And in the meantime, the issue being raised often is not addressed over time, elevating its visibility. Those actions then harden the other group, cementing their tribe. No one wants to be called bigots, racists, or misogynists when they aren’t. It’s offensive. So then you hear the tribe cry “We will not be woke!”

To be honest, I’m a simple cave man often caught in the middle. It’s a tiring story plot that plays out a million times a day.  Yet almost everyone gets drawn into that same play all the time.  That’s the only thing I’ve really taken away from this thread  

 

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Posted
25 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

This is the direct quote I responded to with pertinent links:

Now I’m sure you are going to try to say “are they in the room with us now?” Was a legitimate way to frame the discussion as limited to posters rather than sarcasm

 

as I said, stupid or a troll 

Post #284, even predating that one

Quote

 

I don't see how anything you wrote, or anybody wrote, suggests in anyway that results in young girls being denied to playing sports....and all the other baggage accompanying that.

If you misread both of those, you dont even get credit as a troll. 

never mind the fact that ive not once referenced libs, gops, conservatives, karens, ted cruz, or any other starring characters. i challenged the posts of people here, on their words.

you want to talk vaguely at me but at some strawman at the same time to gain some moral authority, enjoy your crown. 

Posted
7 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

What? YOU posted this verbatim: 

I haven't seen anyone else use the word "cheat" to describe these athletes. You introduced it. I don't think you meant anything malicious by it, but you did. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

In your example above--the "truly biologically dimorphic" athlete that fits better in most metrics as a female--and lives their life as a female--they aren't getting excluded because they can't physically hack it in the men's/open division?

You are correct actually. The way I wrote that implied there exists a class of intentional cheaters. 

I made the distinction to put the focus on the meaningful group - the ones I sympathize for. The point I was leading to was in the paragraph that followed: who has a set of fair and pragmatic rules? without one, my default inclination is to stick to the birth cohort. 

In truly gray zone, like with dismorphism, if we cant come up with a sensible rule, is it wrong to weight that 1 person wishes against all of their competitors? If its the discomfort of 1 person against 2 female competitors…or 5… or 10? thats essentially democracy isnt it. 

Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

The point I was leading to was in the paragraph that followed: who has a set of fair and pragmatic rules? without one, my default inclination is to stick to the birth cohort. 

In truly gray zone, like with dismorphism, if we cant come up with a sensible rule, is it wrong to weight that 1 person wishes against all of their competitors? If its the discomfort of 1 person against 2 female competitors…or 5… or 10? thats essentially democracy isnt it. 

I get it. Can't possibly make everybody happy. I'm just skeptical of those 2 or 5 or 10's actual discomfort in truly gray area cases. Will the issue be them or their parents?

Edited by aggie08
Posted
30 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

 

In a two minute sound bite society, most people have no time or interest to explore an issue further. Some of those people are bigots, racists, or misogynists.  But many aren’t. They just have a simple viewpoint based upon a ten second reflection. So better border control sounds good  banning men from women’s sports sounds reasonable.

 

This 100%.  The reason this is an effective strategy is because the concept of inequity as it comes to sports is absolutely a winner at a base level without gender issues layered on top.   Are some of people against this super transphobic? I'm sure.   But we had a little league game earlier this week where our 2nd grade boys team played a team with a bunch of known 3rd graders on it that were mashing and a bunch of the moms got all pissy about it.   Kind of like Highland Park parents (among others) are purportedly notorious for kindergarten "redshirting" their boys for sports purposes and enjoying that advantage in youth sports (which similarly gets people outside of highland park all pissy as I've heard this get brought up/bitched about in 3 or 4 different settings).   So you take a concept like sports inequity that draws people offsides anyways, slap transgender on top of it, and of course it accomplishes exactly what they want.

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Posted
11 minutes ago, safe sex said:

@PRONG HORN must have forgotten to write his thoughts down. He's got a lot of thoughts about trans kids playing sports, but he only ever seems to post transphobic cartoons about them. Weirdo 

He got banned for a month for racism so he'll get back to you in November at 8AM Moscow time.

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Posted
14 minutes ago, safe sex said:

If you're arguing that trans people shouldn't get to participate in sports as children/teens and you haven't read the WaPo article in the queer thread, please cease your participation until you've read it. 

https://www.surlyhorns.com/board/topic/26441-lbgtq/?do=findComment&comment=6493544

That doesn't matter within the parameters @52-80 has set for purposes of this discussion!

 

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