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Charlie Kirk assassinated at an event in Utah (by a 22 YO groyper)


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Posted
34 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Huh. Okay. I am not on SM so I missed that, but being the moments of silence thing doesn’t make much of an impression on me. Most folks are polite-ish.

the NFL is very much about virtue signaling with patriotism. Was there also a moment of silence at the UT game? I would think Belmont would want to avoid the controversy mainly in terms of some students booing.

Posted
1 hour ago, BurdineBandit said:

I was counting on Arch to give me some great distractions this year.

You were putting your eggs in the MAGA basket? Interesting strategy.

Posted
You’re mentioning 1/6 is something that is easily missed. He bussed people in. He was willing to overthrow our democracy. 
Not just bussed people in, funded much of the entire Stop The Steal movement. On top of using his platform and influence to push the lie the election was stolen. He made such a difference, Trump owed him and knew it... Which is another reason they are trying to canonize the dude.

Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

At this point, I don't think we will ever know the political leanings of the shooter/murderer. If his world is more about memes and phrases for the lulz, he could very well make comments that show him to be on the other side of his true feelings. Applying logic to a few comments here or there or looking at the scribblings on the shell casings, is not the same as reading the Unabomber manifesto in 1995.

And both side will claim a false flag op if anything comes out contradicting their desire of the shooter's beliefs.

Yeah. He was an internet brained freak. Almost identical to the guys who tried to kill Trump. Former MAGA types who got caught up in the conspiracy theories and internet nonsense. Trying to portray them as left or right is a fool's errand. And to the extent they are leftist or rightist it is in some bizarre fringe way that doesn't really reflect at all on any normal version of those things. 

But that only makes things worse really, as you say.

By the way I called this almost immediately that is was going to some weirdo nut, which we had people out there in the national media saying this had all the hallmarks of a professional hit and other LOL nonsense. And it wasn't because I am some genius, it is because that is who all these murderers tend to be these days. The media is just too deranged and click-bait obsessed to report obvious trends.

Edited by Valmy77
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Posted
1 hour ago, Enchubben said:

I’m willing to listen to others and reconsider my opinion of Kirk if people can point to specific things he has done or said that make him a bad person. I just haven’t seen anything that indicates that.

 

1 hour ago, Enchubben said:

Can you explain which ones are reprehensible?

 

1 hour ago, Bojack said:

No offense but I feel like you must be willfully ignoring what's been posted here repeatedly or what's available otherwise. Here it is again. This is by no means all of it. Seriously, do you agree with him or is it still somehow inconclusive?

 

@Enchubben, you posted the first two quotes and Bojack provided this video. Did you listen to it and "reconsider your opinion of Kirk" as a result? You have fallen off the thread ever since people started adhering to your requests. Can you let us know if any of it moved you in any way?

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

 

Yeah, I mean I cited the moment of silence but it's not just that specific act.  It's the fact that a moment of silence was even deemed appropriate in the first place.  

Stephen Miller isn't running the stadium operations of the Green Bay Packers.  Laura Loomer didn't make the call to use State Farm stadium for the memorial.  The average American feels that a good man died last week, a man worthy of national mourning, and the longer we ignore that reality the deeper the hole will grow (and I'm not sure it matters much anymore, anyway.)

I don't know that that's the case, because I think the average American didn't know who the hell Charlie Kirk was, but they're certainly being told by every prominent institution in this country that he was a good man.  That's the problem. 

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Posted
Trump won with a plurality, not a majority, and Democrats routinely get more votes than Republicans overall in congressional elections.
The MAGA point of view isn't anywhere close to being held by a majority of people in this country. 

2024
Not Trump-77,897,589
Trump-77,303,568
In my book that’s a MANDATE for Not Trump
Posted
1 minute ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

At this point, I don't think we will ever know the political leanings of the shooter/murderer.

This is one of the most insane parts to me. We have a nation sitting here, on the edge of their seats, to see if one nut is right or left leaning so we can blame everyone that shares some of his political beliefs.

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Posted

I had forgotten about Charlie Kirk's finger pointing at the Austin fire chief and blaming him for some of the Kerr County flood deaths.  The SHORTEST line one can draw between Camp Mystic and the City of Austin is over 100 miles, but that doesn't matter, black guy responsible.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I had forgotten about Charlie Kirk's finger pointing at the Austin fire chief and blaming him for some of the Kerr County flood deaths.  The SHORTEST line one can draw between Camp Mystic and the City of Austin is over 100 miles, but that doesn't matter, black guy responsible.

I hadn't. Kirk really hated black people. Or at least hated when one of them was in charge of something. Or, probably more accurately that was his schtick. It was almost comical how he would instantly react the same way every time, which is why I think it was totally performative. It probably says something that being racist is now something you pretend to be for clout and clicks.

Edited by Valmy77
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Posted
6 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I don't know that that's the case, because I think the average American didn't know who the hell Charlie Kirk was, but they're certainly being told by every prominent institution in this country that he was a good man.  That's the problem. 

Again, this is what I thought before Wednesday of last week, but it became very, VERY clear that a lot of people who I suspected were "offline conservatives" knew who Charlie was and cared deeply about him.   He is the mainstream, and this country is much further gone than I think any of us realized before last week.

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Posted
9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I had forgotten about Charlie Kirk's finger pointing at the Austin fire chief and blaming him for some of the Kerr County flood deaths.  The SHORTEST line one can draw between Camp Mystic and the City of Austin is over 100 miles, but that doesn't matter, black guy responsible.

I think this is why @RollLeft supports him. He really hates Black people 

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Posted
46 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

The combination of widespread moments of silence at generally apolitical events like football/baseball games (without any kind of pushback) and the number of people who never talk politics on social media feeling the need to mourn Charlie publicly has completely reshaped my perception of this country.

This isn't just the MAGA folks who whine about everything, it's the mainstream.

Yep, it's human nature if things are allowed to get bad enough. If hate speech is allowed to go unchecked. 

This experience had shown me freedom of speech cannot survive in the 21st century. There has to be major consequences for spreading hate, or else you get a nation of brainwashed people calling for civil war over completely fabricated and imagined transgressions. It's not just the US. You can see signs of it in every developed western country that doesn't clamp down on speech. The UK is an insane mess of propaganda and idiocy right now as well, just not anywhere near the level of the US yet. Same with a large part of Europe. 

The US is the one that the elites actively used it to poison their own population so they can steal as much as humanly possible for themselves. Look at all of the legislation republicans have passed since Fox News and social media took hold and went in this direction. Not a single piece of it has actually helped any regular Americans. It's all been about tearing down regulations preventing monopolies, ripping apart the American social safety net, and racking up tens of trillions of dollars in deficit spending only to funnel all of that money in to the pockets of the billionaires. 

It's the world's largest shell game. Get you looking over here while they screw you over there. And "we the people" are too stupid to recognize it. 

Going forward the only countries that will thrive are ones that put major restrictions on speech and the internet. Eventually every society around the globe will do it and democracy will mostly die out because this isn't sustainable. Of course it won't only be hate speech that is banned, it will be all manner of speech that goes against the ideals of the ruling government. 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, The Hot Dog Buffet said:

Pretending to be a racist and being a racist are the same thing.

Fair enough. But the point being at how being this way is now encouraged and is acceptable.

Posted
1 minute ago, Hermanator said:

It's the world's largest shell game. Get you looking over here while they screw you over there. And "we the people" are too stupid to recognize it. 

There is just too much fraud and grifting and exploitation of the common people going on for anybody to outsmart it. You can outsmart the system 99% of the time, they still got you that other 1%.

Posted
1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Dude.  Stop with the false equivalency.  The shitty, divisive stuff about Kirk isn't his general conservative positions -- support Trump tariffs, argue for more rigid immigration controls, all the stuff.  Hasan takes plenty of "liberal" positions, but he does NOT take positions like "white women don't have the brain power," and "we should be able to whip conservatives."  He never put out a "hit list" of conservatives he didn't like, who then got subjected to a cascade of death threats.

Now, I also wouldn't support putting our flags at half staff if Hasan was killed, or putting his body on AF 2, or any of that shit.  Because he is not a government official.

But then, I'm not in a fucking cult that requires that men be made into gods. 

Fair enough. You're right.

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Posted
12 hours ago, Hayduke said:

Gave it some thought, didn't act immediately, and that was probably good. Fairly certain it wouldn't be very effective compared to other approaches, which I'm thinking about a lot right now.

Grown son (but young and in military) said he would have said something. Good that he wasn't there. We're going to need him and other thoughtful, moral and upright leaders in the military if stuff keeps moving in the current direction, but he'd probably not be in that position if he draws attention to any of his political statements.

Being friends with senior to mid-level leaders in the Army, I really feel that they hold the Constitution and love for Democracy (brought to others by beans, bombs, and bullets) more than an illegal order. And it is very satisfying to hear one and two star buddies that there are many ways to passively resist. For example, a bunch of vehicles suddenly don't work. Or, the internet keeps going out because the Army sends formal orders via the net. 

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Posted
Just now, coachherman'sgrill said:

Being friends with senior to mid-level leaders in the Army, I really feel that they hold the Constitution and love for Democracy (brought to others by beans, bombs, and bullets) more than an illegal order. And it is very satisfying to hear one and two star buddies that there are many ways to passively resist. For example, a bunch of vehicles suddenly don't work. Or, the internet keeps going out because the Army sends formal orders via the net. 

Ah ... I am suddenly viewing all of my students in a new light and gaining appreciation for their organizational leadership skills. 😆

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Posted
Just now, Biff Tannen said:

Lol,  Zeus pops in and just posts a random video with no context whatsoever.  Pass.

Here's the "groyper" discord leaks. I know you lefty boomers want to claim he's a right wing "groyper" and all but it's pathetic at this point. 

That video was Destiny calling for more violence at right wing events. 

 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I don't know who these people are or why they have an audience, but I feel very confident that the existence of this video is a 50 second summary of every single thing wrong with this country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny_(streamer)

Steven Kenneth Bonnell II (born December 12, 1988), known online as Destiny, is an American live streamer and political commentator. He was among the first people to stream video games online full-time.[5] Since 2016, he has streamed political debates with other online personalities, in which he advocates for liberal and social democratic policies.[6][7][8]

Posted
21 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

I hadn't. Kirk really hated black people. Or at least hated when one of them was in charge of something. Or, probably more accurately that was his schtick. It was almost comical how he would instantly react the same way every time, which is why I think it was totally performative. It probably says something that being racist is now something you pretend to be for clout and clicks.

There is zero doubt in my mind that CK has watched a train of black men nail his wife.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Here's the "groyper" discord leaks. I know you lefty boomers want to claim he's a right wing "groyper" and all but it's pathetic at this point. 

That video was Destiny calling for more violence at right wing events. 

 

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Thankfully, I don't know what any of this shit means.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Dude.  Stop with the false equivalency.  The shitty, divisive stuff about Kirk isn't his general conservative positions -- support Trump tariffs, argue for more rigid immigration controls, all the stuff.  Hasan takes plenty of "liberal" positions, but he does NOT take positions like "white women don't have the brain power," and "we should be able to whip conservatives."  He never put out a "hit list" of conservatives he didn't like, who then got subjected to a cascade of death threats.

Now, I also wouldn't support putting our flags at half staff if Hasan was killed, or putting his body on AF 2, or any of that shit.  Because he is not a government official.

But then, I'm not in a fucking cult that requires that men be made into gods. 

Not here to get in an argument of “what is worse” and at the current political moment, right-wing extremism is the pressing threat. But sane societies should completely reject edgelords who edgily try to recast authoritarian monsters and traffic in their aesthetic. Communism is one of the most nightmarish ideologies ever to happen to millions of real people no matter what variant you choose and these type of photos should be looked at similar to smirking in front of Mussolini or Pinochet exhibits. 

image.thumb.png.53a2c20c5bf7b765d7fcc9bfc73958f0.png

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I don't know who these people are or why they have an audience, but I feel very confident that the existence of this video is a 50 second summary of every single thing wrong with this country.

The guy in the top left is Steven Bonnell (also known as Destiny), who is famous for cosplaying as a liberal online and giving Nick Fuentes a platform, while saying absolutely heinous shit about every marginalized group in existence.

Posted
4 minutes ago, cmontexas said:

Waited all weekend for the MF 9-5 thought leaders to drop the fresh cope

It is why I call it the Cope Room.

I need to cope someplace.

Posted

You are all missing things.

Kirk is being portrayed by the right as a family man murdered over politics.

So for people like my mom, she knows who he is but doesn’t listen to him or know what he said, she can just feel for a widow and small children. She doesn’t know he loved gun violence, and advocated for the deaths of others, enjoyed other people getting hurt, and she doesn’t realize his wife is a piece of shit too. She just projects these feelings Kirk stated he was against.

For my father, he knows who he is. He listened to him a little. He is projecting him as a victim as well of the fictitious violent left. He doesn’t like to argue with me, because anything that challenges his ideas or narratives = a hit piece. He has been programmed to dislike minorities and in particular the LBGTQ+ community. It wasn’t Charlie Kirk that did it but decades of right wing propaganda broke his mind and shifted all of his values. If Trump said it was raining dollars outside he would go outside and pretend to have a bucket of cash or talk about “how what he actually meant was…” when he couldn’t spend it.

This morning my wife had on the news and there was a little blurb about the shooter. They identified that a “transgendered” person was cooperating. When have they ever felt the need to say, “Nivek, not gay, was cited for speeding.”

It is fucking bullshit and these corporate owners of local media dump this shit in their programming. How the fuck is it relevant if true or not true?

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Posted
2 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Not here to get in an argument of “what is worse” and at the current political moment, right-wing extremism is the pressing threat. But sane societies should completely reject edgelords who edgily try to recast authoritarian monsters and traffic in their aesthetic. Communism is one of the most nightmarish ideologies ever to happen to millions of real people no matter what variant you choose and these type of photos should be looked at similar to smirking in front of Mussolini or Pinochet exhibits. 

image.thumb.png.53a2c20c5bf7b765d7fcc9bfc73958f0.png

Sure - tankies and left-authoritarians are shitbags all on their own.  Shit, the differences between left authoritarianism and right authoritarianism are a lot smaller than I thought when I was younger and naive.

Of course, none of them are literally in charge of our current government, and controlling almost all media, and openly promising to use the power and apparatus of the state to punish, repress, and "exile" the political opposition.  If and when any of them threaten to do so, I'll absolutely turn my attention to them.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

So, other than the horribly racist, xenophobic, sexist, dehumanizing, and hateful things he said, you have nothing to show he was a terrible person? The 5th amendment says you can't use what he said against him, so check and mate!

Still waiting on specific examples. I watched one of the videos above, and in addition to many of them being taken out of context or cut short, most of them are valid agreements and statements.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

956 right on time to do McCarthyism as usual.

You are such a child. I have spent over a decade of my life in post-Communist countries and know exactly what those symbols mean. I have zero respect for cosplaying edgelords like Hasan or you. 

Posted
Just now, 956 Worldwide said:

You are such a child. I have spent over a decade of my life in post-Communist countries and know exactly what those symbols mean. I have zero respect for cosplaying edgelords like Hasan or you. 

Oh? Can you tell me my views on communism or Russia in general? I'll hang up and listen.

You fucking bitchass coward piece of shit. Fuck you.

Posted
7 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Not here to get in an argument of “what is worse” and at the current political moment, right-wing extremism is the pressing threat. But sane societies should completely reject edgelords who edgily try to recast authoritarian monsters and traffic in their aesthetic. Communism is one of the most nightmarish ideologies ever to happen to millions of real people no matter what variant you choose and these type of photos should be looked at similar to smirking in front of Mussolini or Pinochet exhibits. 

Capitalism has a long history of nightmarishness, too.

Just sayin'.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Enchubben said:

Still waiting on specific examples. I watched one of the videos above, and in addition to many of them being taken out of context or cut short, most of them are valid agreements and statements.

No, you aren't. You already know all of them. You can stop with the trolling because no one is buying it.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

Still waiting on specific examples. I watched one of the videos above, and in addition to many of them being taken out of context or cut short, most of them are valid agreements and statements.

Then you, are a fucking idiot.  Out of context my ass.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

Still waiting on specific examples. I watched one of the videos above, and in addition to many of them being taken out of context or cut short, most of them are valid agreements and statements.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Sure - tankies and left-authoritarians are shitbags all on their own.

Sure, but Hasan is neither of these things and it would be obvious to anyone that actually sits down to watch his content rather than clips served up by the hate machine and random tabloid-level journalists.

956 thinks everyone to his immediate left is a tankie, as if he just learned that word a month ago or something. He thinks that living in post-communist countries gives him some kind of absolute moral authority on this issue, but in reality he's just your average Pax Americana imperialist that would gladly see people like me lined up against a wall and shot for wrongthink. You'd think, considering his obvious intelligence, that the irony of him also being a full-chested supporter of all the Nazi shit Israel does wouldn't be completely lost on him, but here we are.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Not here to get in an argument of “what is worse” and at the current political moment, right-wing extremism is the pressing threat.

Totally agree with your sentence!! And anyone, please, tell me I'm an idiot and conspiracy theorist but I think the distraction continued to be pushed by politicians and the media is doing such an effective job. We will be in the "what about" and "well, the other side is worse" phase while what WE ALL should be raging about is all of our finite natural resources being used and abused. For example, Corpus is going to be the first American city to face a no shit, actual water crisis. The Colorado can't handle the water needs along its banks. The Columbia is the same. 

Next we have these tariffs in place to price farmers out of their land so they can be bought pennies on the dollar. But us consumers are the one really getting hammered. So on and so on.

I don't have my tinfoil hat on but the decisiveness is such a great distraction. Billionaires have gotten even more rich while the poor are getting hammered thanks to the Big Beautiful Bill. And they are in a position to continue to buy up most of America's resources and industries. But media owners are able to make us focus on what's not important. A good example is the cancel culture. To wit, when everyone wanted to boycott Bud Light. Anheuser-Busch owns the beers that everyone switched to. So go ahead and boycott whatever, whatever you choose instead is still owned by the same people.

I'm not saying there's some global or national conspiracy being run by billionaires but when they control the media and therefore the narrative, that paper editor or news director will generally do what their told. And this continues to distract us from private equity firms buying houses, HVAC companies, hospitals, farms, etc. 

When these national divisions happen, I always ask myself "Who benefits". 

Am I crazy? Sheesh

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

Still waiting on specific examples. I watched one of the videos above, and in addition to many of them being taken out of context or cut short, most of them are valid agreements and statements.

What year did you graduate from the Charlie Kirk School of Debate?

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Posted

With some time having passed, I have come to pity Charlie Kirk.  He was recruited/funded as a teenager by super wealthy right wing activists to be used as a tool to recruit the youth vote.  Then, by the time he was in his early 20s, he’d used that propellant to become wealthy and famous and score a beauty queen wife by humiliating college kids and curating his conversations to generate online content and promote right wing extremist views.  He didn't have the same under-the-radar conversion to adulthood that I and many others had that gave an opportunity to re-assess the belief system instilled during childhood; he was too far in the machine and had way more to lose by changing his mind than a normal person.  So even though I think he had a really negative impact on the world, I feel really sorry for him.  I will say this: one of his most used quotes is something to the effect of “when people stop talking, bad things happen”; I think that’s very telling about his worldview and also very wrong, because the reality is that bad things happen when people stop LISTENING.  Charlie Kirk was an elite level talker, but I haven’t seen any evidence that he ever really listened.  And I think that can be applied to a lot of people in today’s society and is a big reason why we are in this mess.

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Posted
17 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

Still waiting on specific examples. I watched one of the videos above, and in addition to many of them being taken out of context or cut short, most of them are valid agreements and statements.

Logan Roy Succession Oh Fuck Off GIF | GIFDB.com

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Snake Diggity said:

With some time having passed, I have come to pity Charlie Kirk.  He was recruited/funded as a teenager by his dad and his dad's friends super wealthy right wing activists to be used as a tool to recruit the youth vote.  Then, by the time he was in his early 20s, he’d used that propellant to become wealthy and famous and score a beauty queen wife by humiliating college kids and curating his conversations to generate online content and promote right wing extremist views.  He didn't have the same under-the-radar conversion to adulthood that I and many others had that gave an opportunity to re-assess the belief system instilled during childhood; he was too far in the machine and had way more to lose by changing his mind than a normal person.  So even though I think he had a really negative impact on the world, I feel really sorry for him.  I will say this: one of his most used quotes is something to the effect of “when people stop talking, bad things happen”; I think that’s very telling about his worldview and also very wrong, because the reality is that bad things happen when people stop LISTENING.  Charlie Kirk was an elite level talker, but I haven’t seen any evidence that he ever really listened.  And I think that can be applied to a lot of people in today’s society and is a big reason why we are in this mess.

 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Michael Knight said:

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Why must we track who is “honoring” an unrepentant cunt who also had a podcast?

My theory: Because he and Turning Point USA funded J6 and Trump told the world his death was a tragedy. Just like Ashli Babbitt. The NFL and others are simply bowing to the whims of the king. 
 

Trump is only going to leave office in a coffin. He won’t abdicate 

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