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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Basil said:

Bobby the Pilot, how hard is it to enter a takeoff roll with flaps retracted on a modern passenger jet?  I would think they'd engineer that to be really hard to do.

Same question when retracting flaps immediately after takeoff.  Isn't there a "yeah, might want to think twice" warning if you order flap retraction at a speed, altitude and configuration that would likely result in a stall?

Depends on the plane. The Airbus give you a configuration  warning if the flaps are not in takeoff configuration or if they’re not in a configuration matching the flight management computer. 
 

It doesn’t not, however, care if that is the incorrect flap setting  for the takeoff as long as it’s in one of the valid positions and matches the computer data.

Similarly, short of triggering the alpha lock I mentioned earlier it doesn’t care if you select the wrong level of flap retraction either.  

Boeing might be the same. 

Edited by Bobby_Batronic
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Posted

fwiw, the survivor stated that there was a "loud noise" that preceded the crash.

Quote

“Thirty seconds after takeoff, there was a loud noise and then the plane crashed,” he told the Times from his hospital bed. “It all happened so quickly."

 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

A sudden loud noise doesn't really jive with the consistent descent we saw before crash, imo. 

a movie clip from movieclips.com shows a woman talking to a man on an airplane

Edited by bolverk
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Posted
5 minutes ago, sidis said:

fwiw, the survivor stated that there was a "loud noise" that preceded the crash.

 

Considering that the poor dude just stumbled away from a fiery plane crash in which 200+ other people died (including his brother who was sitting in the next seat), and he's laying in a hospital bed physical pain and shock...I'd say not a whole lot.

Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, chainsaw said:

jesus they really just plopped a runway in the middle of a densely developed area

Have you seen Reagan airport? It like literally a block or two from the Pentagon and civilization all around it.

Edited by 'stache
Posted
40 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Have we ruled out DEI?

I went to Twitter for the first time in a long time, and one of the first posts from some dumb woman was that exact question. probably a Russian bot. 

There is also a video circulating that a guy on the plane two hours earlier showed that nothing electronic on the flight was working. AC, entertainment system, attendant lights, etc  

 

Posted
25 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Have you seen Reagan airport? It like literally a block or two from the Pentagon and civilization all around it.

yeah but at least there's a terminal and roads separating the runway from the development. And the Potomac

Posted
1 hour ago, sidis said:

 

 

 

i just don't understand how an inadvertent flap retraction occurs unless a bug in the electronics causes it in an automated way or unless the pilot is severely drunk. The controls in a 787-8 cockpit are pretty fucking clear.

23028009943_161c3c29bb_b.jpg

They are also shaped like the things they control, but it happens

Posted
6 minutes ago, Blotto said:

The fact that some people even briefly entertained thoughts that the lone survivor managed to do so by jumping to safety from an airborne 787 had me checking whether or not I had somehow been transported to texags. good lord.

He upgraded to the ejection seat.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Blotto said:

The fact that some people even briefly entertained thoughts that the lone survivor managed to do so by jumping to safety from an airborne 787 had me checking whether or not I had somehow been transported to texags. good lord.

More likely than aggy ever winning a title 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Blotto said:

The fact that some people even briefly entertained thoughts that the lone survivor managed to do so by jumping to safety from an airborne 787 had me checking whether or not I had somehow been transported to texags. good lord.

My God ..

That's Jason Bourne

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Posted
50 minutes ago, Blotto said:

image.thumb.png.749d13ae6c8b105494e0bdeb45fc8b5c.png

Was just about to post that - I, unfortunately, fly too much through MDW - a few years ago had to sit on the runway burning off fuel because the main (long) runway was out of service.  They really need a couple of catapults and some catch wires to make that place safer.

Posted
2 hours ago, Blotto said:

The fact that some people even briefly entertained thoughts that the lone survivor managed to do so by jumping to safety from an airborne 787 had me checking whether or not I had somehow been transported to texags. good lord.

I was skeptical but the NYT reported on the survivor. Absolutely stunning that someone lived. He should play the fucking powerball.

Posted
Just now, 'stache said:

I was skeptical but the NYT reported on the survivor. Absolutely stunning that someone lived. He should play the fucking powerball.

Why? He already used up all his luck.

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Posted

welp ...

Shortly before the fatal crash of Air India flight AI171 in Ahmedabad, two British nationals waiting to board the plane were seen joking and smiling in what would become their final video.

In a story posted to their wellness page, Wellness Foundry, founders Jamie Ray Meek and Fiongal Greenlaw-Meek appeared in good spirits as they waited to board their flight.

Fiongal ended the clip saying, “Going back happly happily, happily calm,” in a tone that was upbeat and cheerful.

https://x.com/aviationbrk/status/1933174528185598160?s=46&t=cH-LvFrUDSIxqTdoyXUTxg

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Posted

Watched a video of a guy who was on the plane the flight before. There was all kinds of things broken. A/C, in flight entertainment, call button. I heard India is supposed to be very tough on maintenance and security since the 80's but it sounds like this plane wasn't getting any.

Posted

Crew oxygen cylinders are under the flight deck, any crew-initiated logbook items were likely related to low fill, which is only a problem in the event of cabin depressurization above 10,000 ft. I’ll eat my hat if this was in any way related to crew O2.

Not saying maintenance wasn’t an issue here, but this feels like media grasping at straws.

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Posted
32 minutes ago, CycleTex87 said:

More likely a human error cause than a latent defect in the aircraft. Though you can't rule out some bizarre combination of events that line up to cause both engines to shut down.

Some of our 787 pilots have suggested that the altitude window controlling the flight directors might have been accidentally been set close to field elevation not unlike the Emirates 777 that buzzed Dubai at 50 feet and 300 knots. There’s a fleet bulletin out about this issue. Basically, the aircraft will settle at the selected altitude (at or just above field elevation) and selected speed (V2..single engine safety speed) with the engines retarding to maintain speed and altitude and kinda mush back in if the engine response isn’t quick enough. 

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Posted
51 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Some of our 787 pilots have suggested that the altitude window controlling the flight directors might have been accidentally been set close to field elevation not unlike the Emirates 777 that buzzed Dubai at 50 feet and 300 knots. There’s a fleet bulletin out about this issue. Basically, the aircraft will settle at the selected altitude (at or just above field elevation) and selected speed (V2..single engine safety speed) with the engines retarding to maintain speed and altitude and kinda mush back in if the engine response isn’t quick enough. 

Does that explain leaving the gear down?

Posted
52 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Some of our 787 pilots have suggested that the altitude window controlling the flight directors might have been accidentally been set close to field elevation not unlike the Emirates 777 that buzzed Dubai at 50 feet and 300 knots. There’s a fleet bulletin out about this issue. Basically, the aircraft will settle at the selected altitude (at or just above field elevation) and selected speed (V2..single engine safety speed) with the engines retarding to maintain speed and altitude and kinda mush back in if the engine response isn’t quick enough. 

 

Just now, ClubWhatever said:

Does that explain leaving the gear down?

If you squint hard enough, I can see the rumored extreme failure of maintenance instigating the loss of power during the takeoff, which deploys the RAT and doesn't leave enough hydraulic power to raise the gear. No idea on the flaps being up though

Posted
34 minutes ago, ClubWhatever said:

Does that explain leaving the gear down?

It could if the startle factor precluded their raising the gear as the plane leveled off and power reduced drastically. Or EGPWS procedures could have made that a non factor. Gear and flaps generally stay in the selected position for that and Windshear escape procedures until out of the situation. 

32 minutes ago, Captainant said:

 

If you squint hard enough, I can see the rumored extreme failure of maintenance instigating the loss of power during the takeoff, which deploys the RAT and doesn't leave enough hydraulic power to raise the gear. No idea on the flaps being up though

That’s my problem with that theory. It’s hard to see the RAT. It appears to be down, but it’s not hard to hear it, and it sounds like it’s deployed as the plane flies past. 

Posted
2 hours ago, RPM said:

Watched a video of a guy who was on the plane the flight before. There was all kinds of things broken. A/C, in flight entertainment, call button. I heard India is supposed to be very tough on maintenance and security since the 80's but it sounds like this plane wasn't getting any.

There's no way a large company would be able to bribe safety regulators into looking the other way. Not in India!

Posted
1 hour ago, ClubWhatever said:

Does that explain leaving the gear down?

It was 40c, they’d normally leave them down to 2000 to cool off. But in the video you can see they are in the forward position so stopped closing when the engines lost power. 

Posted
53 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

 

I believe the gear lever is pretty far above the flap lever on the the 787.  That would be a really egregious error - way worse than the one a couple of years ago on the ATR.

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