Dallas officer kills man after mistaking apartment for her own, police say

[dcbc 14179]

3 hours ago, hookem17 said:

Wow. 

I dragged a rather jaded former prosecutor into my office and made her watch that.  She was a mess of tears.  And she and I have had some heated (yet rational) discussions about this case.  That was something I've not seen before.

[BigDHornfan 6504]

Group of protesters marching through downtown tonight antagonizing DPD over the fact she had not got 10 years.
That young man didn’t get through to enough people today.
Unreal.

[TwiceHorn 30715]

1 hour ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I don’t know what to think of her. Clearly she murdered the guy and a jury made their assessment and I’m good with it. I don’t know if she’s racist or an immature dipshit, and don’t care. Her contrition and wailing when he hugged her was genuine and sad. 

Yeah, this troubles me.  I think we all agree that her actions were unreasonable.  But unreasonable does not directly equate to the worst kind of murder.  The people combining "unreasonable" with "intentional" and "murder" to arrive at that place are being facile.  There's some kind of gray area in there that's beyond my ability to describe or rudimentary psychological understanding.

Whatever her mental state at the time, or psychological makeup, I saw evidence of real remorse and that probably spells an ability to make herself a better person, to "rehabilitate" and not repeat the same mistakes.

Defining culpability and an appropriate sentence is hard work and requires some serious thought free from being self-righteous or all lathered up about black/white cop/civilian man/woman and the various things that put people in high dudgeon about this case.  However they arrived at their sentence, I think the jury did a very fair job.

Edited October 3, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[GRHorn 105]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

 

I did, and it's plenty fair.  I made the call at the time based on history and known evidence....damned glad to be wrong.  Not the first time for me, won't be the last (I mean, I'm SURE all of y'all just KNEW Texas was gonna beat the Huskers in the first Big 12 championship, right?)

 

Very much agreed.  Our social trend is so much towards separation, and villification.  Seeing an outward example of kindness, forgiveness, and acknowledgment that we all live in community with each other -- including with the people who have wronged us -- is really big.

It reminds me of the aftermath of the Amish school shooting back in 2006.  https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=14900930

The Amish family members of actual shooting victims not only forgave the shooter, but some of them even attended his funeral.  They offered love and assistance to his widow and his family.  They walked the fucking walk.  It was one of the most powerful displays of Christ-like behavior I've ever seen, and it sticks with me to this day.

A lot of us are angry at law enforcement.  And we have every right to be.  But what do we really WANT?  We want them to do their jobs.  We want them to do it with kindness and human decency, with awareness and respect for the gravity of their power, and the decisions they may be called upon to make.  We actually DO want them to "make it home safely."  And we want them to deliberately balance the life and safety of others when they make life-changing decisions.  We want them to be like Deputy Dahliwal...and we want him and the rest of them to go home to their family at the end of their shift.  I don't hate cops.  I hate what they've allowed themselves to become, and I hate that so many of them resist reform.  

Do we want Amber Guyger to suffer now?  Maybe.   Maybe somewhat.  Because it does send a powerful cautionary message.  But what would we RATHER have had happen? 

I think most of us would prefer to have seen her grow up to be a decent woman with compassion, not fear masked with callous bravado.  We'd rather have seen her be capable of doing her job in a cool and professional manner.  That way, even if she did goof in showing up at the wrong apartment, upon hearing movement inside, she would have backed up, and assessed the situation....looked at the doormat....looked at the apartment number....and realized it wasn't her own apartment.  Maybe she even would have been a good neighbor, knocking on the door to tell her downstairs neighbor that "man, I am really tired, and found myself in front of the wrong door, but I saw that it was ajar, so I wanted to tell you so you could close it and be safe.  Have a nice evening."

I'm sick of people being so fragile and hostile that they resort to violence and hurting others.  I'm sick of people being hurt and killed because violence is such a common reaction among people we should be able to trust.  I'm sick of society HAVING to call for justice, and strong sentences to serve as a warning.  I'm sick of losing good people like Botham Jean.  I'm sick of people like Amber Guyger never developing into a good person, for whatever reasons may have led her down the wrong path.  I'd like a society where Botham got to enjoy his ice cream and go to bed, and a good cop named Amber got to have a laugh about how tired she was, and get a good night's sleep.

We can and should exact our punishment.  But we must also figure out a way to heal who we are.  Because who we are right now hurts a shitload of people, for no damned good reason at all.

Kind of makes you wanna walk back from the ledge doesn’t it?

[Slade 263]

I'm sorry, I don't want to see another 18 year old on the stand burdened with the responsibility to forgive. I don't fault Jean's little brother, that's his personal journey to forgiveness but the judge hugging her does not sit well with me. 

[SDG 3319]

1 minute ago, Slade said:

I'm sorry, I don't want to see another 18 year old on the stand burdened with the responsibility to forgive. I don't fault Jean's little brother, that's his personal journey to forgiveness but the judge hugging her does not sit well with me. 

I may be mistaken but it looked like the judge was speaking to the victims family right before she went over to Amber.  It looked like she was relaying a message from the parents.  

[TwiceHorn 30715]

3 minutes ago, Slade said:

I'm sorry, I don't want to see another 18 year old on the stand burdened with the responsibility to forgive. I don't fault Jean's little brother, that's his personal journey to forgiveness but the judge hugging her does not sit well with me. 

To the extent that it could symbolize one part of the "system" embracing another, I can see your point.

A bailiff was also filmed comforting Guyger after the conviction.

The more humanity exhibited by "cogs in the machine," the better, but to the extent it reflects actual or merely perceived "favoritism," it's a problem.

 

[Deej 76080]

Hopefully, if she has truly been moved, Amber will spend her time using her experience as a teaching moment for those that wear the badge. She has a lesson to give. Maybe the sympathy and forgiveness she was shown today will allow her to pay it forward 

[Quagmire 2139]

Group of protesters marching through downtown tonight antagonizing DPD over the fact she had not got 10 years.
That young man didn’t get through to enough people today.
Unreal.

Shouldn’t they be antagonizing the jury that handed out the punishment ?

[rantanamo 143]

57 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

That one demonstration of forgiveness will go further to change any ingrained thoughts of hate more than 100 years in prison would.

Black people have been praying and forgiving our way to subjugation.  Hate to say that as a Christian, but while we forgive, the applicable reality has not followed not had it been reciprocated.  Can't even get people to acknowledge racism.

[Brisketexan 103139]

Kind of makes you wanna walk back from the ledge doesn’t it?

Naaah. I still think we’re too far gone. But maybe it’ll keep me from scooting further out there today.

[Brisketexan 103139]

Black people have been praying and forgiving our way to subjugation.  Hate to say that as a Christian, but while we forgive, the applicable reality has not followed not had it been reciprocated.  Can't even get people to acknowledge racism.

And damn if that ain’t a fair thing to say.

Way to remind me that we’re too far gone, and we steadfastly refuse to fix shit.

[Zepol87 9015]

Shouldn’t they be antagonizing the jury that handed out the punishment ?

No they are protesting the system that has shown everyone that 10 years for murdering a black man is fair. Fuck that

[immortal13 4059]

I'm not buying this was a racial issue

[Slade 263]

7 minutes ago, rantanamo said:

Black people have been praying and forgiving our way to subjugation.  Hate to say that as a Christian, but while we forgive, the applicable reality has not followed not had it been reciprocated.  Can't even get people to acknowledge racism.

Thank you, we've been showing grace and forgiveness for centuries. Forgiveness is always incumbent upon us in these kinds of instances, I'm not a subscriber to this programming.  Kalief Browder wasn't shown this kind of compassion from the system, he rotted in Rikers for years with no trial and committed suicide after he was released. The Central Park 5 (Exonerated 5) were kids, did they get hugs from the judge in their cases? No. 

Forgiveness does not negate accountability. Jean's life mattered but that is not reflected in this sentence, which is nothing new as it relates to the lives of black Americans in this judicial system. 

[Zepol87 9015]

I don't think this was either but fact is still white cop murdered black man in his home. No reason for it and only 10 years while many of my friends from and in the hood have family members locked up for close to that and longer than that for way less shot than muder. You can say different things and that is another issue but people are fucking pissed off

[tokamak 6321]

3 hours ago, msudawg said:

Renee Hall - Dallas PD chief speaking now. Said they will have IA investigate all the things brought up in the trial. 

[NoRagrets 1120]

5 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

I'm not buying this was a racial issue

I would guess the odds of her using deadly force drastically decrease if she walks into a white female’s apartment by mistake.

[Vic Mackey 46581]

I'll be fucking damned if I ever go up to someone who murdered a family member or friend of mine and give them a hug. They can fucking rot in prison and get shanked for all I give a fuck. That was fucking pathetic. You are basically telling the world it is ok for people to intrude into people's homes and kill people. That you will get a fucking hug out of it. That shit pisses me off. How can anyone be moved by that? The mom was rejoicing after being found guilty and the brother goes up and gives her a hug? That doesn't take character or bravery. That is stupidity. Spare me the religious angle of why. This murdering piece of shit entered your brother's home and shot him dead, didn't even give a shit to even try and revive him or check. And you want to hug her and say she deserves no time? All in the name of religion. Wow. So he is giving anyone out there an invitation to walk into his home or family/friends and shoot them dead and he will give us a hug. Good job guy. Way to show the world your brother's life means zero to you. That woman does not give a shit about you, your family or your deceased brother. She is only upset about the consequences of her actions, not the action itself, as most criminals are. Good job bowing down to the fucking cops. You think her family would hug your brother or you if you went into her home and shot her? Nope. Your victory would be avoiding the needle. But hey, you just told the world your brother's life means nada. And quit putting words in his mouth saying this is what he wanted. He would want to be living right now, not deceased.

This whole ordeal pisses me off. The guilty verdict was just a bone being thrown. That means zero now with this 10yr sentence and she will be out before this year's recruiting class graduates. I don't think the jury ever planned on being harsh. They wanted to play both sides of the fence. Convict but go light on her punishment. Dog and pony show is all it was. Had the roles been reversed and he killed her in her home, the jury would send his ass away for his natural life remaining. 

[immortal13 4059]

1 minute ago, NoRagrets said:

I would guess the odds of her using deadly force drastically decrease if she walks into a white female’s apartment by mistake.

She had her gun drawn before she went in and I think had it been a big white dude, she would've blasted his ass too.

[immortal13 4059]

3 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

I'll be fucking damned if I ever go up to someone who murdered a family member or friend of mine and give them a hug. They can fucking rot in prison and get shanked for all I give a fuck. That was fucking pathetic. You are basically telling the world it is ok for people to intrude into people's homes and kill people. That you will get a fucking hug out of it. That shit pisses me off. How can anyone be moved by that? The mom was rejoicing after being found guilty and the brother goes up and gives her a hug? That doesn't take character or bravery. That is stupidity. Spare me the religious angle of why. This murdering piece of shit entered your brother's home and shot him dead, didn't even give a shit to even try and revive him or check. And you want to hug her and say she deserves no time? All in the name of religion. Wow. So he is giving anyone out there an invitation to walk into his home or family/friends and shoot them dead and he will give us a hug. Good job guy. Way to show the world your brother's life means zero to you. That woman does not give a shit about you, your family or your deceased brother. She is only upset about the consequences of her actions, not the action itself, as most criminals are. Good job bowing down to the fucking cops. You think her family would hug your brother or you if you went into her home and shot her? Nope. Your victory would be avoiding the needle. But hey, you just told the world your brother's life means nada. And quit putting words in his mouth saying this is what he wanted. He would want to be living right now, not deceased.

This whole ordeal pisses me off. The guilty verdict was just a bone being thrown. That means zero now with this 10yr sentence and she will be out before this year's recruiting class graduates. I don't think the jury ever planned on being harsh. They wanted to play both sides of the fence. Convict but go light on her punishment. Dog and pony show is all it was. Had the roles been reversed and he killed her in her home, the jury would send his ass away for his natural life remaining. 

Man, I really can't disagree with you. 

[Trey3216 15298]

And yet the jury consisted of 7 black, 3 Hispanic, and 2 white jurors.  I’m thinking they knew they had to convict her, but they did not want issue a super long sentence.  

[formermav43 4599]

12 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

I'll be fucking damned if I ever go up to someone who murdered a family member or friend of mine and give them a hug. They can fucking rot in prison and get shanked for all I give a fuck. That was fucking pathetic. You are basically telling the world it is ok for people to intrude into people's homes and kill people. That you will get a fucking hug out of it. That shit pisses me off. How can anyone be moved by that? The mom was rejoicing after being found guilty and the brother goes up and gives her a hug? That doesn't take character or bravery. That is stupidity. Spare me the religious angle of why. This murdering piece of shit entered your brother's home and shot him dead, didn't even give a shit to even try and revive him or check. And you want to hug her and say she deserves no time? All in the name of religion. Wow. So he is giving anyone out there an invitation to walk into his home or family/friends and shoot them dead and he will give us a hug. Good job guy. Way to show the world your brother's life means zero to you. That woman does not give a shit about you, your family or your deceased brother. She is only upset about the consequences of her actions, not the action itself, as most criminals are. Good job bowing down to the fucking cops. You think her family would hug your brother or you if you went into her home and shot her? Nope. Your victory would be avoiding the needle. But hey, you just told the world your brother's life means nada. And quit putting words in his mouth saying this is what he wanted. He would want to be living right now, not deceased.

This whole ordeal pisses me off. The guilty verdict was just a bone being thrown. That means zero now with this 10yr sentence and she will be out before this year's recruiting class graduates. I don't think the jury ever planned on being harsh. They wanted to play both sides of the fence. Convict but go light on her punishment. Dog and pony show is all it was. Had the roles been reversed and he killed her in her home, the jury would send his ass away for his natural life remaining. 

The foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 

[NoRagrets 1120]

I know letter of the law is that it is murder, but I think the charge really should’ve been “manslaughter because of really shitty judgement and systemically bad police training to shoot first and ask questions later.” I think ten years was definitely appropriate. There was not criminal intent. She used really bad judgement combined with some really bad luck of parking on the wrong floor. She is not a threat in any way to society. I hope she goes on to teach police departments about the pitfalls of over zealous training and the importance of good judgement in policing.

[Zepol87 9015]

She had her gun drawn before she went in and I think had it been a big white dude, she would've blasted his ass too.

If she killed Todd in Frisco bet she would have gotten more than 10 years for a lesser charge

[Tailgate 2972]

10 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

I'll be fucking damned if I ever go up to someone who murdered a family member or friend of mine and give them a hug. They can fucking rot in prison and get shanked for all I give a fuck. That was fucking pathetic. You are basically telling the world it is ok for people to intrude into people's homes and kill people. That you will get a fucking hug out of it. That shit pisses me off. How can anyone be moved by that? The mom was rejoicing after being found guilty and the brother goes up and gives her a hug? That doesn't take character or bravery. That is stupidity. Spare me the religious angle of why. This murdering piece of shit entered your brother's home and shot him dead, didn't even give a shit to even try and revive him or check. And you want to hug her and say she deserves no time? All in the name of religion. Wow. So he is giving anyone out there an invitation to walk into his home or family/friends and shoot them dead and he will give us a hug. Good job guy. Way to show the world your brother's life means zero to you. That woman does not give a shit about you, your family or your deceased brother. She is only upset about the consequences of her actions, not the action itself, as most criminals are. Good job bowing down to the fucking cops. You think her family would hug your brother or you if you went into her home and shot her? Nope. Your victory would be avoiding the needle. But hey, you just told the world your brother's life means nada. And quit putting words in his mouth saying this is what he wanted. He would want to be living right now, not deceased.

This whole ordeal pisses me off. The guilty verdict was just a bone being thrown. That means zero now with this 10yr sentence and she will be out before this year's recruiting class graduates. I don't think the jury ever planned on being harsh. They wanted to play both sides of the fence. Convict but go light on her punishment. Dog and pony show is all it was. Had the roles been reversed and he killed her in her home, the jury would send his ass away for his natural life remaining. 

Ok. Has your brother, sister or family member ever been shot and killed? Mine either. How should I act? Is there a manual on what to do when it happens?

This young man just showed us what he would do and you’re saying it’s bullshit? You’re totally out of line. He stood by his belief in god and shared his true feelings with the court and those watching. This wasn’t an acting exercise for you to judge. This was a murdered mans brother showing us true emotion in the heat of the moment.

We know how you would react now. That does not justify calling someone out who acts differently than you wished they would have. And more importantly, was much more intimately involved in this trial than you and what you can imagine.

[Vic Mackey 46581]

Pathetic. This murdering bitch has all their sympathy. Good job.

[immortal13 4059]

1 minute ago, Zepol87 said:

If she killed Todd in Frisco bet she would have gotten more than 10 years for a lesser charge

I don't doubt that

[SquishMitten 10368]

Group of protesters marching through downtown tonight antagonizing DPD over the fact she had not got 10 years.
That young man didn’t get through to enough people today.
Unreal.

One case, one verdict, one act of forgiveness isn’t going to heal decades of pain. It’s a start, not the end.

[Deej 76080]

13 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Pathetic. This murdering bitch has all their sympathy. Good job.

When was the last time a convicted murderer got a hug from the judge?

Aside from the victim's brother, the other two pics kind of seem to be the system forgiving of her crime. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Deej

[Js1 82350]

1 minute ago, Deej said:

When was the last time a convicted murderer got a hug from the judge?

White women lives matter 

[Deej 76080]

1 minute ago, Js1 said:

White women lives matter 

"We're so sorry that the system failed you."

[Fondren & Main 6548]

Man, y’all are some angry motherfuckers on this site.

[Skipper 5952]

Anyone expecting anything commentary remotely resembling nuanced thought or analysis from Vic Mackey should know better, LOL

[Brisketexan 103139]

Anyone expecting anything commentary remotely resembling nuanced thought or analysis from Vic Mackey should know better, LOL

Thoughtful analysis from Vic?

 

Fat chance....

 

[naija 2804]

2 hours ago, rantanamo said:

Black people have been praying and forgiving our way to subjugation.  Hate to say that as a Christian, but while we forgive, the applicable reality has not followed not had it been reciprocated.  Can't even get people to acknowledge racism.

you can't say it enough.

you have posters who have vilified Black people and the "Black community" for years on these forums going on about how his display was more effective than X number of year of jail time would ever be.

sure it looks like a Hollywood movie, because it's the type of scene that has been shoved down throats for years now in movies..

[gsoda3 3187]

Are you talking about me? When have i ever done that?

[4th and 5 4903]

12 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yeah, this sudden passion thing has a lot of roots in common law homicide.  

Typically, it would nullify the premeditation requirement for "1st degree" type murder.  Since Texas law doesn't take into account premeditation, this is how that's dealt with.

It comes from common law manslaugher.

13 hours ago, smuggs said:

Sudden Passion absolutely has to be on Sex Cop's debut album.

Along with the chart topping single: Mi Casa es Su Casa!

[Zepol87 9015]

Man, y’all are some angry motherfuckers on this site.

Yep and rightfully so, 10 years is bullshit compared to what I’ve seen many people get for less charges

[4th and 5 4903]

13 hours ago, ajax said:

So what. Who fucking cares. I was molested as a kid too. I didn't murder anyone. Fuck her.

Yet

8 hours ago, Tailgate said:

Question for lawyers. If they appeal this case and the process opens back up could she gamble and end up getting a higher sentence?

Yes

8 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Texas restores firearm rights five years after completion of sentence.

At residence.

federal law prohibits it and has serious penalties

 

 

7 hours ago, RPM said:

So when they included time served to reduce her sentence, does that include time out on bond?

No. She has credit for the day or her arrest and the last two days. 10 years, credit 3 days.

4 hours ago, dcbc said:

I dragged a rather jaded former prosecutor into my office and made her watch that.  She was a mess of tears.  And she and I have had some heated (yet rational) discussions about this case.  That was something I've not seen before.

Good. I hate jaded prosecutors.

[4th and 5 4903]

I Had a bunch of hearings today so I missed the trial today and am just taking a moment to learn the sentence and what happened at trial today here on surly

I see some heavy shit in court on a daily basis

I'm shocked. I’ve never seen anything like it.

Bramdt Jean is an amazing person.

[Pato del Muerto 51913]

Idk from sentencing guidelines but a murder conviction should result in more than 10 years. 

Murder is an intentional act, and the jury thought the evidence met the standard. 20-25 please. 

7-10, in protection?  Or in genpop?

Edited October 3, 2019 by Pato del Muerto

[Nicole44 21941]

7 hours ago, Fondren & Main said:

Man, y’all are some angry motherfuckers on this site.

Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them.

[Iceman 2576]

8 hours ago, Fondren & Main said:

Man, y’all are some angry motherfuckers on this site.

yeah, we need to work on being more receptive to people being shot in their own homes, while completely minding their own fucking business..

Edited October 3, 2019 by Iceman

[Asithappens 974]

8 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

I'll be fucking damned if I ever go up to someone who murdered a family member or friend of mine and give them a hug. They can fucking rot in prison and get shanked for all I give a fuck. That was fucking pathetic. You are basically telling the world it is ok for people to intrude into people's homes and kill people.

I don't think that's the message at all.

You need a hug from Mr. Brandt Jean.

And more importantly, you need to hug him back.

[Pancho 41815]

 

 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

9 hours ago, immortal13 said:

I'm not buying this was a racial issue

It is more about her being blue than it is her being white or him being black. 

This would have been a straightforward murder trial, conviction, and sentencing had she not been a cop. And no media circus. 

[Fondren & Main 6548]

7 hours ago, Zepol87 said:

Yep and rightfully so, 10 years is bullshit compared to what I’ve seen many people get for less charges

Are you saying that because other people have been treated unjustly that we should keep doing that?  If that’s what you’re saying then I sort of have to disagree with you there.

[smuggs 9304]

10 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

I'll be fucking damned if I ever go up to someone who murdered a family member or friend of mine and give them a hug. They can fucking rot in prison and get shanked for all I give a fuck. That was fucking pathetic. You are basically telling the world it is ok for people to intrude into people's homes and kill people. That you will get a fucking hug out of it. That shit pisses me off. How can anyone be moved by that? The mom was rejoicing after being found guilty and the brother goes up and gives her a hug? That doesn't take character or bravery. That is stupidity. Spare me the religious angle of why. This murdering piece of shit entered your brother's home and shot him dead, didn't even give a shit to even try and revive him or check. And you want to hug her and say she deserves no time? All in the name of religion. Wow. So he is giving anyone out there an invitation to walk into his home or family/friends and shoot them dead and he will give us a hug. Good job guy. Way to show the world your brother's life means zero to you. That woman does not give a shit about you, your family or your deceased brother. She is only upset about the consequences of her actions, not the action itself, as most criminals are. Good job bowing down to the fucking cops. You think her family would hug your brother or you if you went into her home and shot her? Nope. Your victory would be avoiding the needle. But hey, you just told the world your brother's life means nada. And quit putting words in his mouth saying this is what he wanted. He would want to be living right now, not deceased.

[Uncle Nate 2097]

It wouldn't have mattered if they sentenced her to 10 days, 10 years, or 100 years.

She's a cop going to prison.  She is going to die there, or be beat so terribly she wishes she would die. It's a death sentence no matter the length. Even if they have her in "protective" whatever, she's going to get killed in prison. They always find a way.