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SmokeyBear1861

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14 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Not sure if this goes here or the Ukraine thread, but IMO he is dead on with his analysis.  

I'm probably being a little reactionary, but I truly believe we are headed toward a world war.  And I worry it will come with a side of civil war.  The Russians have their hooks in tight on the American right. 

r/WhitePeopleTwitter - The crisis is escalating due to Putin.

I volunteer to be responsible for assessing exacerbated cleavages. 

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14 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

DT is our own little texags.

Please explain how on the Ukraine or Israel-Hamas thread people have been acting like Texags? Those few who have have been shot down pretty quickly by people like @atomheartbevo, @Brisketexan and quite a few more. 

Relax, have some tea. 

And I was one who suggested @cactusflinthead bring it over here and we had a good discussion. Don't want the overlords to ban a good poster, this shit is moving fast, it is complicated and @blacklabmade it clear. This is for politics, the other thread is for news. Same as Ukraine. 

Edited by InkaUtexas
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Just now, InkaUtexas said:

Please explain how on the Ukraine or Israel-Hamas thread people have been acting like Texags? Those few who have have been shot down pretty quickly by people like @atomheartbevo, @Brisketexan and quite a few more. 

Relax, have some tea. 

Settle down, it's a joke about DT being the conservative CR.

Sheesh.

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2 minutes ago, Hagbard Celine said:

i don't have bandwidth to catch up on 44 pages....

can someone tell me if the following have been cited/mentioned/discussed

balfour

sykes-picot

oslo

No, apparently this is an ancient problem dating back to Esau and Jacob.

 

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Just now, F250 said:

No, apparently this is an ancient problem dating back to Esau and Jacob.

 

But the Vikings in Iceland and some dude named Cyrus, or was it Marcus, were involved. Oh, and there was a sea with some scrolls. 

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Sometimes GIF

Those two threads have been solid. 

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Interesting note overnight. CNN was able to get into Gaza. Israel stated they were warning occupants via text of targets. This was a standard SOP in the past. Palestinians are saying no warnings were given. 

Break down in comms? Lying on either or both sides? This is a shit fest. 

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4 hours ago, bolverk said:

Macklemore/Icono's repeated Right Wing talking point that anyone showing any sort of support in the West is part of a "fifth column" (enemy from within), focusing on Middle Easterners. I'm not going to go looking for it, but he outright stated or strongly implied that Europe shouldn't have let Muslims/Middle Easterners in, which is rich, given his ethnicity. Also, his ongoing lie about his identity.

Yes, a couple of his posts show people who appear to be celebrating the Hamas attacks, but he also groups in protesters who might just be generally supportive of Palestinian liberation. From a few of the clips, you can't tell the difference between the two motivations -- although I would also argue that protesting for Palestinian liberation during all of this is definitely in very poor taste. But calling them a "fifth column" goes too far.

But I also take into account his body of work here and previously on Shaggy where he shows absolute contempt for anyone who's darker in complexion than he is, along with his well-established islamophobia.

Then, of course, we have Frank Drebin/Johnny Sack (why do they keep changing handles?) chiming in with the racially/ethnically/religiously tinged comment that protestors in NY are "vermin." Again, I'm considering his posting history when remarking on that comment.

I've got to say, I'm very uncomfortable with this type of stereotyping from both of those two absolute knobheads, and it's the kind of shit that I truly wish would be moderated better.

Then you have the poster (Porterhouse aka the former Dr. Beeper) who got butthurt here when he was told by multiple people he was wrong, basically called for wiping out Palestinians that didn’t leave if they were told to, then when he got called out for it, asked to have his account wiped.  All because I negged him. Insert rolling eyes emoji here.  These folks don’t care about engaging in honest, civil discourse.  They have a world view that does not reflect reality, want an echo chamber, and cannot stand being called on their bullshit.

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A few have alluded to this, but I am increasingly in belief that the intelligence on how to get around Israel’s defense was one of the many things I am 99.9% certain ole DJT let his buddy Putin know about.  Russia tells, Iran, Iran lets their useful idiots Hamas know, and BAM.  More destabilization.  

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7 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

With a little more digging, I'm sure we can find plenty of examples of other hard-right politicians in Israel expressing the same thoughts. But long before they began openly admitting it, the fact that Likud and Hamas had common interests and were aligned against peace was still obvious:

Not long after that, Rabin was assassinated by a Netanyahu supporter.

Much like the plot of Star Trek 6 if you think about it.

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Props to the posters who’ve brought into the thread what appear to be pretty credible reports of the Israeli government departing privately in action from the public position of supporting a Palestinian state in exchange for recognition. That’s a pretty big deal.

It may be that the fighting over the recent years has simply hardened the positions of both sides to the point where there is really no way back to the negotiating table.  If true, it’s a chilling thought for what comes next.

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1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Then you have the poster (Porterhouse aka the former Dr. Beeper) who got butthurt here when he was told by multiple people he was wrong, basically called for wiping out Palestinians that didn’t leave if they were told to, then when he got called out for it, asked to have his account wiped.  All because I negged him. Insert rolling eyes emoji here.  These folks don’t care about engaging in honest, civil discourse.  They have a world view that does not reflect reality, want an echo chamber, and cannot stand being called on their bullshit.

One of the interesting sociological types of observations is the lack of awareness among posters that we all have a rather immutable "voice" that others can pick up on fairly easily if only paying a little attention. You see it in a number of conservative posters who change their handles on a regular basis, and I'm not only talking about the ones who get negged out of existence before building up the rep to survive the storm.

There's a certain je-ne-sais-quoi that's simply a tell. I'm not exactly sure what it is, but within only a post or two, I know exactly who the latest incarnation of GRHorn is, for example. That's not braggadocio; it's simply what it is, whether that be the Twitter accounts they follow or solely because of their "voice." I don't know.

Is there a certain blind spot that conservative posters have that leads them to believe they can put on a ruse? Again, I don't know, but it seems to happen with a regularity.

Edit: It's always also laughable when they stick with it. Rex/Beeper/Porterhouse is a good example. Everyone fucking knows who you are. Then, there's the absolutely pathetic Macklemore claims that he's not Iconoclast when it's patently obvious.

Edited by bolverk
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These two are going to have a large fight every decade or two. And since both are becoming more and more conservative and religious, the fighting will just get worse in the future. Hamas knew exactly what the Israeli response would be, and they’re counting on the rest of the Middle East or some countries to react.

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1 hour ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

A few have alluded to this, but I am increasingly in belief that the intelligence on how to get around Israel’s defense was one of the many things I am 99.9% certain ole DJT let his buddy Putin know about.  Russia tells, Iran, Iran lets their useful idiots Hamas know, and BAM.  More destabilization.  

100% aligned on this speculation - we do KNOW that trump shared Israeli intelligence with Lavrov in the oval office, but we don't know what he shared. It was a BFD at the time that was handwaved away and drowned out by the all the other crazy shit going on

https://www.npr.org/2017/05/15/528511980/report-trump-gave-classified-information-to-russians-during-white-house-visit

No telling what sort of knock on effect that sort of shit will have moving forward - we've already seen a bunch of CIA spooks get got, I wonder if our nuke info left in the shitter had anything good on it 

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32 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

These two are going to have a large fight every decade or two. And since both are becoming more and more conservative and religious, the fighting will just get worse in the future. Hamas knew exactly what the Israeli response would be, and they’re counting on the rest of the Middle East or some countries to react.

That's likely true, but there may also be the chance they're just so steeped in their own shit they can't see the obvious. It's unfathomable to me that they thought killing/kidnapping raving kids, grandmas, or just moms would be a productive move.

Like I've said a few times and feel like I've made clear (I hope), I'm generally supportive of the Palestinian plight, but this kind of barbarous, murderous shit goes far beyond what any sort of legitimate resistance should be even considered. They've brought wrath and vengeance upon themselves along with any innocents.

It's sickening. I'll shed no tears for Hamas, but I've already let a few out for what's happening to the people.

Edited by bolverk
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20 minutes ago, bolverk said:

It's unfathomable to me that they thought killing/kidnapping raving kids, grandmas, or just moms would be a productive move.

Call me crazy, but what if they weren't ordered to do atrocities and it's more a matter of the extremist radicalized fighters making the most of an opportunity to pay back generations of wrongs - real or propaganda. Once that match was lit, no telling what millennia of sectarian violence was going produce in terms of atrocities. 

 

20 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Like I've said a few times and feel like I've made clear (I hope), I'm generally supportive of the Palestinian plight, but this kind of barbarous, murderous shit goes far beyond what any sort of legitimate resistance should be even considered. They've brought wrath and vengeance upon themselves along with any innocents.

It was a tactic in WWII imperial Japan to force their soldiers to do atrocities so that it would remove all other options but to fight to the death or suffer reprisals from the enemy. I really do think there's an element of that at work here too from Hamas. Remove all other options for the Palestinians and local islamists, even if they wanted nothing more than to be at peace

 

Edit: I realize these two things are somewhat at odds with each other. I'm just thinking out loud and seeing what fits

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Mention of imperial Japan is a reminder that they did not quit until faced with complete extinction, while Nazi Germany was reduced to complete rubble and all resistance killed, fled the country or taken prisoner.  Now they are among the world leaders in production and policy.  Maybe the same "cure" is the only possibility left now, not only for Hamas, the Palestinians, Iran but for every other POS group shouting "Death to Fill in the Blank".

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9 hours ago, bolverk said:

One of the things that really bugs me about the DT thread right now is that many of its participants could not give one single solitary fuck about atrocities committed by Russia on Ukrainian civilians. I'd bet there are several on there who've now posted more on a day-old, 8-page thread than on a 5-year-old, 1,500-page one.

Is that because of who the victims are (speaking only about Israelis since Saturday vs Ukranians)? Or is it more about who the aggressors are (Muslims vs. Putin/Russia)?

There is a ton of connection between Israel's Likud and Putin's Russia.  Both use the power of government and military to control and oppress the "others."  This is why DT, fox news loons, and trumpists align in their support with both.  Trumpists love the idea of an ethno-state imposing apartheid.  This is what they want in the US.  They want to use government to control culture and oppress.  They see both Bibi and Putin as heroes and see Trump as the same.  

The fact that Hamas is so incredibly terrible and literal terrorists gives a ton of cover to the trumpists to push their true desires - see the DT - genocide, oppression, ethnic cleansing. 

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25 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Call me crazy, but what if they weren't ordered to do atrocities and it's more a matter of the extremist radicalized fighters making the most of an opportunity to pay back generations of wrongs - real or propaganda. Once that match was lit, no telling what millennia of sectarian violence was going produce in terms of atrocities. 

 

It was a tactic in WWII imperial Japan to force their soldiers to do atrocities so that it would remove all other options but to fight to the death or suffer reprisals from the enemy. I really do think there's an element of that at work here too from Hamas. Remove all other options for the Palestinians and local islamists, even if they wanted nothing more than to be at peace

 

Edit: I realize these two things are somewhat at odds with each other. I'm just thinking out loud and seeing what fits

I’m pretty sure copying the Japanese tactics in WW2 probably isn’t a great idea based on how it ended for them.  

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1 hour ago, bolverk said:

That's likely true, but there may also be the chance they're just so steeped in their own shit they can't see the obvious. It's unfathomable to me that they thought killing/kidnapping raving kids, grandmas, or just moms would be a productive move.

Like I've said a few times and feel like I've made clear (I hope), I'm generally supportive of the Palestinian plight, but this kind of barbarous, murderous shit goes far beyond what any sort of legitimate resistance should be even considered. They've brought wrath and vengeance upon themselves along with any innocents.

It's sickening. I'll shed no tears for Hamas, but I've already let a few out for what's happening to the people.

Same

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9 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Also, if that Haaretz story is true (re Likud and Bibi purposefully supporting Hamas to sabotage chances at peace)….he should hang. For real, the Israeli people should execute him - flat-out treason.
This story being true would not surprise me at all. Bibi is a shit human being, the Israeli Trump.

If there's a shred of truth to this, the media needs to be all over it.  

The "legacy media" is already talking about the massive intelligence failure of the Israeli government.  If those two are linked, there should be pure hell to pay.

CNN: In times of crisis, Israelis rally around their leaders. This time is different. 

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5 minutes ago, South Austin said:

If there's a shred of truth to this, the media needs to be all over it.  

The "legacy media" is already talking about the massive intelligence failure of the Israeli government.  If those two are linked, there should be pure hell to pay.

CNN: In times of crisis, Israelis rally around their leaders. This time is different. 

They would never do that no matter what is learned. Western leaders are required to say in unison “We Stand With Israel” without anything deeper or more nuanced into why this conflict keeps escalating with no end in sight.

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9 hours ago, DixonHur said:

Not sure if this goes here or the Ukraine thread, but IMO he is dead on with his analysis.  

I'm probably being a little reactionary, but I truly believe we are headed toward a world war.  And I worry it will come with a side of civil war.  The Russians have their hooks in tight on the American right. 

r/WhitePeopleTwitter - The crisis is escalating due to Putin.

That is the most disappointing use of the word ‘cleavages’ I’ve ever read.

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I never saw this discussed anywhere but here is the story about how Biden's suspended Iranian envoy Robert Malley helped fund/support an intelligence operation inside the US.  https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/iran-spy-ring-robert-malley-lee-smith

And here's the story about Iran getting $6billion in a prisoner swap that won't be used for anything other than "food/agriculture"

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/10/us/politics/iran-us-prisoner-swap.html

And then here's the story about Iran being behind the terrorist actions of Hamas 

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iran-israel-hamas-strike-planning-bbe07b25

 

Don't think Iran (or Russia) was too fired up about the potential peace and defense deal between SA/Israel/US.  

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10 hours ago, DixonHur said:

... I'm probably being a little reactionary, but I truly believe we are headed toward a world war.  ...

To the surprise of no one, Senator Graham is broadcasting calls for war with Iran if things escalate.  Anyone think things are not going to escalate?

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Anyone doubt that the embattled criminal enterprise that is the GOP would happily start a war with anyone to "unify" the people" and change the domestic focus?

They could give a shit about who dies, what it costs, or how much it harms the remaining shreds of the republic.

They could give a shit. They should give a shit. But they don't. 

If they are willing to sacrifice lives to save their own skins, shouldn't they pay for that abhorrent crime with their own skins? I'm debating whether I mean that literally. It's a close call.

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33 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

...Don't think Iran (or Russia) was too fired up about the potential peace and defense deal between SA/Israel/US.  

This is the angle that intrigues me.  Saudi Arabia was noticeably drifting away from American influence since Obama's term when we refused to be their proxy in slapping Iran/Syria around.  KSA has gotten more aggressive since MbS came to power (brazen Khashoggi murder and oil production cuts designed to hurt USA at election time).  They even went so far as to re-establish diplomatic relations with Iran (talks of re-opening embassies) at China's behest so they might join the BRICS.

It really seems like there is a tug of war happening between the West and the BRICS for Saudi Arabia's favor and the BRICS could not allow an Israeli/USA - Saudi accord.

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3 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

Rereading the carrier group movement. Interesting to me that A10s are part of the package. Tells me we are ready for ground support along with air support. 

USAF is happy to run those things into the ground so they can finally sundown the program - they really don't hang anymore in the modern threat environment

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19 minutes ago, bernorange said:

To the surprise of no one, Senator Graham is broadcasting calls for war with Iran if things escalate.  Anyone think things are not going to escalate?

Well the world looks like a neocons wet dream ATM, with proxy war against Russia and another proxy war about to pop off with Iran, so of course graham is ecstatic. 

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53 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Took you a few days longer than I thought to make it Biden’s fault 

Man, you post very insightful analysis of actual political races and then completely ignore or discount those articles that are actually relevant to what is going on.  Why? 

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11 minutes ago, Captainant said:

USAF is happy to run those things into the ground so they can finally sundown the program - they really don't hang anymore in the modern threat environment

The USAF has always hated the low glamour of the A-10. If they don't want to fly them, turn the program over to the Army and Marine Corps. I recall Air Force generals saying the A-10 shouldn't be funded because the more expensive planes could do with interdiction what the A-10 did on the battlefield. Absurd when said decades ago. Still so.

The USAF doesn't want to risk the enormously expensive new airframes just as the Army doesn't like to lead with the expensive Abrams tanks. The A-10 will, IMHO, be viable for at least as long as we have helicopters over the battlefield. If choppers can survive, surely the warthog can.

I doubt the USAF is enthusiastic about unmanned fighters for the same reason: glamour. Pilots are an elite group of fighting men/women. It's a club most of us wish we had the stuff for. Still, there's no reason to maintain that club once technology renders its members a constraint on battlefield/sky performance.

Shit. I'm sidetracking this again. What should we name the A-10s? 

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