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Things Not Going Well for Alec Baldwin


ousuxndallas

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It wouldn't disappoint me if Alec wasn't convicted.
I think he is a talented actor.  He can be a loudmouthed asshole and I don't see eye to eye with him politically.  
This situation is horrible and I can't imagine being in his position.  just awful.

Libs are so fucking pwned.
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He fucking punted on Jack Ryan, that enough is a gauge of his over-self worth.  He has a pretty good defense just pointing at the armorer, unless there are communications showing he had concern the the Armorer's competency.  

The fact he hired the armorer is where the water gets muddied.  Of course I am only going on what has been out there in the public.  Baldwin did himself no favors in recording testimony in an interview about the matter.  How the fuck any live ammunition got on the set tends to show a casual nature, that was likely accepted by the producer. That's where he faces the exposure.

For me I would never point a gun at anyone (unless I was going to shoot them). But I am not an actor.  If somebody did want me to point a gun at someone I would be compelled to check to be certain that the gun was not loaded. I don't trust other folks on this.  

It will be interesting to see all the communications behind the scenes that will most certainly come out at trial. 

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43 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

yeah but he's also the boss of the production

edit: but even so the da said he's charged both ways because actors should know firearm etiquette as well. also he had to have pulled the trigger. 

I don’t find it particularly reasonable to think that actors should just know the firearm etiquette. Especially when it’s someone’s job to train or manage the firearms.
I get the EP stuff but charging him as the shooter seems strange to me

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15 minutes ago, horn4life said:

He fucking punted on Jack Ryan, that enough is a gauge of his over-self worth.  He has a pretty good defense just pointing at the armorer, unless there are communications showing he had concern the the Armorer's competency.  

The fact he hired the armorer is where the water gets muddied.  Of course I am only going on what has been out there in the public.  Baldwin did himself no favors in recording testimony in an interview about the matter.  How the fuck any live ammunition got on the set tends to show a casual nature, that was likely accepted by the producer. That's where he faces the exposure.

For me I would never point a gun at anyone (unless I was going to shoot them). But I am not an actor.  If somebody did want me to point a gun at someone I would be compelled to check to be certain that the gun was not loaded. I don't trust other folks on this.  

It will be interesting to see all the communications behind the scenes that will most certainly come out at trial. 

Your third paragraph is really my big question.

We are from Texas, we all have learned gun safety. Is it legally negligent for him not to know those things?

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2 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

Your third paragraph is really my big question.

We are from Texas, we all have learned gun safety. Is it legally negligent for him not to know those things?

when using a gun in a manner that could kill someone? yeah, i think it is. especially as an executive producer. but even so, you wouldn't engage a chainsaw (presumably) on a set without making sure the chain wasn't going to dismember a member of the crew, right? or stab someone with a fake knife before checking it to make sure it's not an actual butcher knife? with guns, it's a very different world, and this wasn't just some prop gun. it could shoot live ammo. if i have to take a fucking it security training every year at my workplace, i can imagine an actor using firearms on a set should meet some sort of safety standard as well.

39 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

I was under the impression that "executive producer" was a do-nothing title in Hollywood that usually gets bestowed in an attempt to get someone famous to join a project?

Was I mistaken?  

there are executive producers and there are executive producers

then there are guys with the title executive producer who accidentally shoot the fucking cinematographer and kill her. 

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I don’t know the facts of the case other than he’s rich and the case is up to interpretation. Unless he texted someone beforehand saying “watch me scare this bitch,” he ain’t getting convicted.

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For the record, he's being charged in NM, which provides the following:

Manslaughter is the unlawful killing of a human being without malice.

A.  Voluntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed upon a sudden quarrel or in the heat of passion.

Whoever commits voluntary manslaughter is guilty of a third degree felony resulting in the death of a human being.

B.  Involuntary manslaughter consists of manslaughter committed in the commission of an unlawful act not amounting to felony, or in the commission of a lawful act which might produce death in an unlawful manner or without due caution and circumspection.

Whoever commits involuntary manslaughter is guilty of a fourth degree felony.

https://nmonesource.com/nmos/nmsa/en/item/4371/index.do#!fragment/zoupio-_Toc121821339/BQCwhgziBcwMYgK4DsDWszIQewE4BUBTADwBdoAvbRABwEtsBaAfX2zgEYAmDgDh4DMAgJwBKADTJspQhACKiQrgCe0AORrxEQmFwIFS1Rq069IAMp5SAIVUAlAKIAZBwDUAggDkAwg-GkwACNoUnZRUSA

The link provides case law annotations that may answer some questions people have.

It would appear that the crux of the case would be whether firing a gun at someone on-set constitutes due caution and circumspection.

Edited by TwiceHorn
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19 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

I was under the impression that "executive producer" was a do-nothing title in Hollywood that usually gets bestowed in an attempt to get someone famous to join a project?

Was I mistaken?  

For film (not tv), Executive Producers are usually the "money," or passive producers who aren't the ground overseeing the set or crew hires (at times they're company partners or executives at the production company), or typically talent/writers who want a larger credit that's negotiated. 

Producers and Line Producers/Unit Production Managers are on-the-ground overseeing the production, hires and budgets.

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I don’t know what evidence they have, but from the outside, if actors are expected to be liable for inspecting every prop handed to them. What else can they be liable for on set? The safety of every stunt? I understand the charge is involuntary manslaughter, which means they have to prove (as shown above) he did not show due caution and circumspection. I just think that’s a huge leap in liability as an actor. 

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On 10/27/2021 at 12:38 PM, sheeeit said:

Really tragic situation.  Obviously AB had no intention to harm anyone and it truly seems like a tragic accident.

I have no opinion on AB as a good or bad person as I do not know him, but a realistic case can and almost certainly will be made that he has some legal responsibility for the shooting and that, it is possible, he has some criminal liability.

Also, it is important to note that my guess is that the things that were going on on the set probably happen on most sets.  Shootings like this are extremely rare so human nature says people will get sloppy with the rules.  However, when a tragedy like this occurs then the set will be held to the standards that are the written rules for safety. 

Some of this will be based on reported actions (never believe any news report more than 50% for accuracy) and will need to be verified and some not.

From a legal liability standpoint, AB's production company, based on reports, was in charge of hiring/firing (including director) and was the on site supervising authority for the film.  If true, AB was the "highest authority" on the set and, as such, is ultimately responsible for the workplace.  If some of the reports are true like 1) people on set using the guns for target practice at lunch, 2) combining the role of the armorer and property master, 3) live ammo being recovered from the scene etc.  There are very specific SAG and industry rules on guns on set including:

1) No "live" ammo is ever supposed to be on a set (this is a biggie)

2) Rubber guns are supposed to be used exclusively in rehearsals (this is a biggie)

3) The armorer and property master are the only people supposed to handle the guns except for the actors (it is reported an assistant director handed the gun to AB- which again probably happens all of the time but it doesn't matter if the rules were broken from a legal standpoint)

4) Actors, by SAG rules, are never to point a gun at anyone, including directors.

5) Actors, per SAG guidelines, are supposed to pull the trigger on any guns handed to them at least 6 times pointed at the ground before using.

6) When filming scenes with real guns, industry rules say plexiglass must be installed to protect directors and others that may possibly be in the line of fire.

From a legal liability standpoint this will be ugly and messy.  The insurers are going to point to clauses in their contracts that say standard industry practices and SAG rules etc must be followed.  I am sure they will try to deny any claims on that basis.  Obviously, AB set up a company to produce the film which, in part, is always done to protect individuals from any personal liability.  However, since AB was on set and actively involved in the actions, both from an oversight position and as the actually person that fired the gun, I think he will be sued personally and will likely have liability.

From a criminal standpoint, if all of the rules that were set in place for gun safety on a set were not followed, then I think AB could be charged with something like involuntary manslaughter.  A pretty strong case could be made that because (again assuming reports are true) standard gun safety rules were not followed on set and that AB was on set and obviously witnessed these rules being ignored then it would be reasonable to expect that some tragedy could occur and then he still accepted the gun and then it killed someone that he is at fault.  

I doubt he does any jail time but I predict he pleads to something.

 

On 10/27/2021 at 3:03 PM, RomaVicta said:

I don't know where you're getting your sense of reality if you've bothered to read anything posted on here by anyone other than fanatics.

Read the affidavit posted more than once above. The notion that a criminal charge will likely be brought against Baldwin is absurd. 

Civil responsibility may very well be determined along the lines you describe. I have no idea how that will go. I don't know how much weight the affidavit recording that Baldwin showed great concern about set safety will have in that determination.

Baldwin has had his bad moments as a person. A virulent group hate him for what they have been told are his politics or that he's not a member of the virulent group. This thread is lengthy because of that group.

This was a horrible accident followed by a band of fuckwads rushing to speculate ahead of any facts so they could get their unfounded digs in at somebody they hate. It's just another day for the hate engine.

I look forward to more hilarious t-shirts from the degenerates who will balley-hoo this while continuing to shit in the overflowing toilet they're making of this country.

 

On 10/27/2021 at 3:15 PM, DDD Dad said:

You know how I know you didn't you pass criminal law in law school?

 

On 10/27/2021 at 6:31 PM, Judge Roybeanbag said:

He’s just positing question, c’mon, man!  There’s no agenda.  

 

On 10/27/2021 at 9:30 PM, RomaVicta said:

TL;DR

Answer to question: no and no

Classic CR.  Went back and read the whole thread.  Roma the schoolmarm was really doing God's work with the negs.  We need him on that wall.

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