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Posted
7 minutes ago, Pokoloco said:

Why are we so willing to kill each other in this country?  

It largely comes back to the fact that we have 100%, across the board, in almost every cultural group/subgroup, defined "empathy for other human beings" as not just weakness, but EVIL.

Pastors get berated by churchgoers for preaching on...the Beatitudes.

Any existing or potential government policy that has even a whiff of helping people is condemned as "COMMUNISMLIBTARDSOCIALISMSOROS!"

Our fellow human beings are defined by our law enforcement apparatus more as targets/threats to be taken out, than they are citizens to protect.

Our gun culture teaches us that every other living being is a threat that you must be vigilant about at all times, with your finger on the trigger ready to blow their fucking head off at the slightest provocation because hey, better safe than sorry.  "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6!"

Vengeance and Retribution are literally the functional campaign slogans of a political movement that controls half the country.

"Disrespect" is a death-penalty offense among pretty much every culture/subculture we have.

 

In short, we have reached "peak toxic individualism," where "me" has all worth, and "we" has zero to negative worth.

 

To not kill each other with great frequency, you just have to believe that the lives and well-being of people other than you matter.  We don't believe that.  And anyone who dares suggest or say otherwise is savagely attacked, destroyed, and rendered irrelevant.  We have the exact society, and exact outcomes, that we want.  The dead bodies tell you it's working.

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Posted
22 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

imma let the NRA field that question

Guns have always been a part of this country. You're saying people have always been this murderous....it's just easier for them now?

Posted
21 minutes ago, Pokoloco said:

Guns have always been a part of this country. You're saying people have always been this murderous....it's just easier for them now?

We've made a god out of firearms.  Literally, they are a point of worship:

2nd-amendment-christian-guns-cross-jesus

Love-Jesus-And-Guns-Faith-Cross-Quote-Fu

 

As just some of the more vomit-inducing examples.  And again, I note that this has happened broadly across cultural groups and ideologies.  "You aren't a man if you aren't armed" works for both a Bubba wearing Oakleys and a dipshit gangbanger.

Guns have always been around.  The ease of access and affordability, the worship and fetishization (actively promoted by the NRA, which is a sick fucking organization, especially if you compare it to what it was 40 years ago), the turning of guns from tools to be treated with respect to becoming a talisman of what a man/patriot/god-fearing Christian you are, is the fucking sea-change.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

We've made a god out of firearms.  Literally, they are a point of worship:

2nd-amendment-christian-guns-cross-jesus

Love-Jesus-And-Guns-Faith-Cross-Quote-Fu

 

As just some of the more vomit-inducing examples.  And again, I note that this has happened broadly across cultural groups and ideologies.  "You aren't a man if you aren't armed" works for both a Bubba wearing Oakleys and a dipshit gangbanger.

Guns have always been around.  The ease of access and affordability, the worship and fetishization (actively promoted by the NRA, which is a sick fucking organization, especially if you compare it to what it was 40 years ago), the turning of guns from tools to be treated with respect to becoming a talisman of what a man/patriot/god-fearing Christian you are, is the fucking sea-change.

All of what you say is sadly true. I’d add to that how numb we are to gun violence and the very real fact that we value guns more than people. 

Posted

All of the cultural points and access to guns points Brisket has made are true, but I would say they created the tinder box of a problem. What really set that tinder box ablaze the last 10-15 years was the Internet, social media, chat rooms etc.

People can get radicalized so easily online now. Some people get radicalized into hot peppers, some it's fantasy football, some it's van life and over landing, and then some it's the mass shooter.

Whether is Discord, or some dark corner of 4chan or IRC rooms, there are now people that talk each other into commiting these things and trying to out do the previous mass shooter, etc.

In years past, those people may be crazy loners who hate the world, but there was no community pushing them to actually commit the acts.

Now the crazy angry loners connect with other crazy angry loners and normalize the idea of mass violence with each other to the point where some of them go out and do it.

Posted
All of the cultural points and access to guns points Brisket has made are true, but I would say they created the tinder box of a problem. What really set that tinder box ablaze the last 10-15 years was the Internet, social media, chat rooms etc.
People can get radicalized so easily online now. Some people get radicalized into hot peppers, some it's fantasy football, some it's van life and over landing, and then some it's the mass shooter.
Whether is Discord, or some dark corner of 4chan or IRC rooms, there are now people that talk each other into commiting these things and trying to out do the previous mass shooter, etc.
In years past, those people may be crazy loners who hate the world, but there was no community pushing them to actually commit the acts.
Now the crazy angry loners connect with other crazy angry loners and normalize the idea of mass violence with each other to the point where some of them go out and do it.
I assume other countries have access to Discord, or Reddit, or social media.

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819576527
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Posted
4 minutes ago, tchookem said:

I assume other countries have access to Discord, or Reddit, or social media.

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819576527

This.

We hold other human beings in zero regard.  All "me," no "we."  Sure, every other human and culture has a selfish streak.  We have turned selfishness into a religion, with a purity test.  Love for only the individual self, contempt for all others.  It's fucking self-poisoning and utterly stupid (just mathematically....if the only person who truly loves me is me...and everyone else treats me as disposable garbage because that's all other human beings are, garbage....then the "loves Brisket" team is a team of 1, the "who gives a shit if Brisket dies, and if we see him even remotely as a threat, shoot him" team is all 333 million other Americans, I gotta tell ya, I'm WAY outnumbered).

Layer on that the fetishization and idolatry of guns (they are essential to the identity of the tough guy, the "don't disrespect me" crowd, the "I'm a real 'murican Patriot" crowd, etc., a modern talisman more important than a crucifix ever has been), and we are unique, and ultra fucked.

Posted
2 hours ago, Pokoloco said:

Guns have always been a part of this country. You're saying people have always been this murderous....it's just easier for them now?

Just checking, but are you asking if a country that was founded by the descendants of people who came here basically because they were kicked out of other countries, came here as criminals under transportation in indentured servitude, came here as slavers and or smugglers, and waged war against the people who are already here to carve out a place for themselves, would have further descendants who tended towards murder and mayhem? Is that what you’re asking? 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Just checking, but are you asking if a country that was founded by the descendants of people who came here basically because they were kicked out of other countries, came here as criminals under transportation in indentured servitude, came here as slavers and or smugglers, and waged war against the people who are already here to carve out a place for themselves, would have further descendants who tended towards murder and mayhem? Is that what you’re asking? 

I'm pretty sure that version of history will get you arrested in Texas and Florida, so you might want to keep that to yourself. 

kto-kounotoritoken.gif

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Posted
2 hours ago, Pokoloco said:

Guns have always been a part of this country. You're saying people have always been this murderous....it's just easier for them now?

Yes? Strangely enough, modern firearms may have a slight ease of use advantage (among other advantages) compared to a muzzle loaded musket. Shocking, I know. 

Or maybe it is all because of transgenders. You know, whatever you think makes more sense. 

Posted
2 hours ago, Pokoloco said:

Guns have always been a part of this country. You're saying people have always been this murderous....it's just easier for them now?


you follow the Supreme Court at all? 6-3 ruling this week that bump stocks don’t technically count as machine guns. 
 

Yelling King Of The Hill GIF

Posted
On 6/17/2024 at 8:19 AM, Biff Tannen said:

Meanwhile, sick fuck Austin gun store owner won his SCOTUS case over banning bump stocks.  

He sucks.  On twitter they identified the Juneteenth Shooter and there were a couple photos of the shooter holding a Micro Draco and Cargill's response was "we have them in my store" like the shooting was good press.

Posted
On 6/21/2024 at 6:49 PM, Dahobbs said:

Yes? Strangely enough, modern firearms may have a slight ease of use advantage (among other advantages) compared to a muzzle loaded musket. Shocking, I know. 

Or maybe it is all because of transgenders. You know, whatever you think makes more sense. 

Something has definitely changed over the last 50 years. 

Transgenders?  TF are you on about??

Posted
8 minutes ago, Pokoloco said:

Something has definitely changed over the last 50 years. 

We let lobbyists run our country.  Not just politically, but culturally.  Across the board, guns have become a talisman: you ain't a man if you ain't armed.

Here's some disturbing numbers:

Quote

In 1960, some 1,130 firearms were produced for the U.S. market for every 100,000 people in the U.S. that year. In 2000, that number was 1,676, according to our analysis. By 2021, the figure had skyrocketed to 6,785 guns per 100,000 people.

We're manufacturing firearms at around 6 times the rate we were 60 years ago.  Not 6 times total number, but 6 times the RATE.

And the number of firearms in the US per 100 people?  120.  More than TWICE the ratio of any other country....including heavily armed countries like Yemen (52.8) and Serbia (39), and blowing most European countries out of the water, like Austria (30), Switzerland (27.6), and Germany (19.6).

We have a psychotic love affair with guns, across the board, and across sub-cultures.

We are not a healthy country.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Pokoloco said:

Something has definitely changed over the last 50 years. 

Transgenders?  TF are you on about??

1) I was referencing common conservative boogeymen (e.g., Soros, illegals, and transgenders) for all ills;

2) Yes, something has changed. Here is in a hint:

 

image.thumb.png.c63834110d5f69263f5919a4edd00bcb.png

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1388010/share-ar-15-united-states-firearm-production-historical/

 

Again, easier to cause death with a firearm than it has ever been. That's what changed. Also, maybe see 1) above with the fear mongering. 

Posted

Couldn't think of a better thread in CR for this. And, gawd forbid, the crime-obsessed DT would ever want to read this.

Why the US had a violent crime spike during Covid — and other countries didn’t
Violent crime is falling. But understanding why it surged during the pandemic is still important.

It’s not every day that you see officials touting crime trends just as summer begins. Summer is typically when violent crime increases, and no one wants to celebrate a win before half-time’s over.

This year has been different.

In June, the FBI released preliminary quarterly data for January to March 2024 that shows violent crime rates continuing to decline from their pandemic peaks. In the first months of this year, the data suggest that violent crime fell by 15 percent, with murder falling by more than 26 percent, compared to the same period in 2023.

“Violent crime is dropping at record levels in America,” President Joe Biden said in a statement trumpeting the FBI’s estimates. “Americans are safer today than when I took office.”

It’s always worth approaching preliminary crime data with caution, especially this early. But the FBI’s report broadly fits with last year, when the government recorded a 13 percent decrease in murders — likely “one of the fastest rates of decline ever recorded” according to crime stats analyst Jeff Asher.

The Biden administration has — despite what Donald Trump says — prioritized crime reduction. The government sent billions of dollars to cities and states as part of the American Rescue Plan and urged them to spend it on crime fighting and prevention, including hiring more police officers. He also championed the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, which created real investments in community violence intervention and paved the way for the most significant expansion of background checks in decades.

Whether he’ll get credit for it with voters is another question. Decades worth of polling shows that Americans tend to believe crime is increasing, even when it’s not.

But there might be another reason why Americans are slow to pick up on the good news: they’re still shaken by the genuinely worrisome rise in homicide in 2020. The murder rate didn’t reach the highs it did in the 1970s through the early 1990s, but the fact that it jumped 30 percent in 2020 was a real cause for concern.

Now that violent crime is falling, though, it’s worth looking back at what happened. Was the rise in murders in the United States part of a broader trend, or something more anomalous?

A uniquely American problem
A few years out from the start of the pandemic, it does appear that the rise in homicides in the United States was unique. According to multiple studies and a systematic review of crime data for 2020, in most countries crime fell following Covid-19 lockdowns, then gradually returned to their pre-pandemic levels once the lockdown measures lifted. Homicide was the exception to the rule — but not the way it was in the United States.

Homicides around the world, according to the 46 studies the authors reviewed, didn’t change significantly due to the pandemic. “Most studies reported no relationship between Covid-19 and homicides,” the authors of the study wrote. A majority of the studies, they noted, found no relationship between the implementation or easing of lockdown measures and killings.

The Small Arms Survey, which gathers and analyzes data about firearms ownership and violence across the world, also found that the global rate of violent deaths decreased worldwide in 2020.

What was different in the United States?

“There was no other country that experienced this kind of sudden increase in gun violence,” says Patrick Sharkey, a sociologist at Princeton University who studies the intersections of urban segregation, economic inequality, and violence. It was gun violence, specifically, that sent violent crime soaring. Americans bought guns in record numbers during the pandemic, and according to an analysis by Rob Arthur and Asher for Vox, there’s evidence that more people were carrying guns in 2020 — even before crime soared that summer. “Guns don't necessarily create violence on their own, but they make violence more lethal,” Sharkey says.

While experts caution that it’s difficult to definitively prove what caused the rise in violent crime, there are a few other factors that likely contributed to it.

One was the killing of George Floyd by police and the unrest surrounding it, accompanied by a withdrawal in policing that followed. Previous research has shown that high-profile incidents of police violence correspond with a pullback by police and a rise in crime — specifically, robberies and murders. Data following the unrest after Floyd’s killing in Minneapolis and elsewhere shows a marked decline in policing and arrests that summer.

“There was a core shift in our understanding of policing in the United States,” Sharkey says. Millions took to the streets to demand an end to police brutality; long-standing cultural assumptions about the authority and legitimacy of police to maintain public safety by any means necessary were called into question. “That understanding of who’s in charge of public space broke down in a major way,” he says. “What we know is that when people retreat from public space and shelter in their homes it creates this vacuum where public spaces can carry the threat of violence.”

Violent crime is now falling in the U.S., with several cities showing big declines in homicide and violent crime.

That might be in part because the most disruptive phase of the pandemic has passed, but Sharkey thinks that the federal funding provided to cities aimed at public safety made a real difference. “I think the federal funding is probably the best explanation for why the surge in violence didn’t persist and why it has fallen so substantially over the past couple of years. It’s probably a factor that doesn't get the recognition it deserves.”

Still, some of the factors that drove the surge — the preponderance of so many guns and the periodic incidents of deadly police violence – endure. And because of that, experts say that the violence from that period shouldn’t be dismissed as a one-time event, but should be studied to see how to prevent violence in the future. Even as crime continues to fall, some of the conditions that helped create the rise in violent crime are still with us.

Posted
46 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Couldn't think of a better thread in CR for this. And, gawd forbid, the crime-obsessed DT would ever want to read this.

Why the US had a violent crime spike during Covid — and other countries didn’t
Violent crime is falling. But understanding why it surged during the pandemic is still important.

It’s not every day that you see officials touting crime trends just as summer begins. Summer is typically when violent crime increases, and no one wants to celebrate a win before half-time’s over.

This year has been different.

In June, the FBI released preliminary quarterly data for January to March 2024 that shows violent crime rates continuing to decline from their pandemic peaks. In the first months of this year, the data suggest that violent crime fell by 15 percent, with murder falling by more than 26 percent, compared to the same period in 2023.

“Violent crime is dropping at record levels in America,” President Joe Biden said in a statement trumpeting the FBI’s estimates. “Americans are safer today than when I took office.”

It’s always worth approaching preliminary crime data with caution, especially this early. But the FBI’s report broadly fits with last year, when the government recorded a 13 percent decrease in murders — likely “one of the fastest rates of decline ever recorded” according to crime stats analyst Jeff Asher.

The Biden administration has — despite what Donald Trump says — prioritized crime reduction. The government sent billions of dollars to cities and states as part of the American Rescue Plan and urged them to spend it on crime fighting and prevention, including hiring more police officers. He also championed the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, which created real investments in community violence intervention and paved the way for the most significant expansion of background checks in decades.

Whether he’ll get credit for it with voters is another question. Decades worth of polling shows that Americans tend to believe crime is increasing, even when it’s not.

But there might be another reason why Americans are slow to pick up on the good news: they’re still shaken by the genuinely worrisome rise in homicide in 2020. The murder rate didn’t reach the highs it did in the 1970s through the early 1990s, but the fact that it jumped 30 percent in 2020 was a real cause for concern.

Now that violent crime is falling, though, it’s worth looking back at what happened. Was the rise in murders in the United States part of a broader trend, or something more anomalous?

A uniquely American problem
A few years out from the start of the pandemic, it does appear that the rise in homicides in the United States was unique. According to multiple studies and a systematic review of crime data for 2020, in most countries crime fell following Covid-19 lockdowns, then gradually returned to their pre-pandemic levels once the lockdown measures lifted. Homicide was the exception to the rule — but not the way it was in the United States.

Homicides around the world, according to the 46 studies the authors reviewed, didn’t change significantly due to the pandemic. “Most studies reported no relationship between Covid-19 and homicides,” the authors of the study wrote. A majority of the studies, they noted, found no relationship between the implementation or easing of lockdown measures and killings.

The Small Arms Survey, which gathers and analyzes data about firearms ownership and violence across the world, also found that the global rate of violent deaths decreased worldwide in 2020.

What was different in the United States?

“There was no other country that experienced this kind of sudden increase in gun violence,” says Patrick Sharkey, a sociologist at Princeton University who studies the intersections of urban segregation, economic inequality, and violence. It was gun violence, specifically, that sent violent crime soaring. Americans bought guns in record numbers during the pandemic, and according to an analysis by Rob Arthur and Asher for Vox, there’s evidence that more people were carrying guns in 2020 — even before crime soared that summer. “Guns don't necessarily create violence on their own, but they make violence more lethal,” Sharkey says.

While experts caution that it’s difficult to definitively prove what caused the rise in violent crime, there are a few other factors that likely contributed to it.

One was the killing of George Floyd by police and the unrest surrounding it, accompanied by a withdrawal in policing that followed. Previous research has shown that high-profile incidents of police violence correspond with a pullback by police and a rise in crime — specifically, robberies and murders. Data following the unrest after Floyd’s killing in Minneapolis and elsewhere shows a marked decline in policing and arrests that summer.

“There was a core shift in our understanding of policing in the United States,” Sharkey says. Millions took to the streets to demand an end to police brutality; long-standing cultural assumptions about the authority and legitimacy of police to maintain public safety by any means necessary were called into question. “That understanding of who’s in charge of public space broke down in a major way,” he says. “What we know is that when people retreat from public space and shelter in their homes it creates this vacuum where public spaces can carry the threat of violence.”

Violent crime is now falling in the U.S., with several cities showing big declines in homicide and violent crime.

That might be in part because the most disruptive phase of the pandemic has passed, but Sharkey thinks that the federal funding provided to cities aimed at public safety made a real difference. “I think the federal funding is probably the best explanation for why the surge in violence didn’t persist and why it has fallen so substantially over the past couple of years. It’s probably a factor that doesn't get the recognition it deserves.”

Still, some of the factors that drove the surge — the preponderance of so many guns and the periodic incidents of deadly police violence – endure. And because of that, experts say that the violence from that period shouldn’t be dismissed as a one-time event, but should be studied to see how to prevent violence in the future. Even as crime continues to fall, some of the conditions that helped create the rise in violent crime are still with us.

IMO Violent crime increased in the US during Covid bc:

1.) People were relatively flush (brrrrrr) and had $ worth killing over or taking

2.) People were home (lockdown)

3.) Uncertainty (stress)

4.) People were around their family all day and night (more stress)

5.) Mental health (result of stress)

6.) Availability of guns (freedom)

 

Add that shit up and you have a recipe for murder.

Never underestimate the chilling effect that having to leave for work will do to homicidal  tendencies. There’s something to be said about a sole sucking job that steals your will. It robs you of that creative human spark that can lead you to accomplish great things or if left to pickle can lead you to murdering your neighbor.

Isolation combined with desperation/ hopelessness is dangerous. Either one by itself is manageable. Combine them and you’ve got a recipe for disaster 

  • Like 2
Posted
59 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

Isolation combined with desperation/ hopelessness is dangerous. Either one by itself is manageable. Combine them and you’ve got a recipe for disaster 

Aka Idaho

Posted
11 hours ago, Dnaguy said:

Isolation combined with desperation/ hopelessness is dangerous. Either one by itself is manageable. Combine them and you’ve got a recipe for disaster 

It's the starting ingredients for qanon

 

Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, bolverk said:

But there might be another reason why Americans are slow to pick up on the good news: they’re still shaken by the genuinely worrisome rise in homicide in 2020. The murder rate didn’t reach the highs it did in the 1970s through the early 1990s, but the fact that it jumped 30 percent in 2020 was a real cause for concern.

?

Does anybody follow the homicide rate and worry about i as the author suggests? Am I to believe that an electorate of distracted morons is awaiting the publication of crime statistics with the same attention they devote to sports, reality TV, or FOX News?

I believe people react to the fear tactics of politicians. All kinds of murder going down in Chicago! I'm sure the upper middle class suburbs are carnage fests. Vote GOP!

Frankly, I'm not sure I buy that adding policemen does anything for the murder rate other than maybe increasing it for Black drivers who violate traffic laws. The better bet would be whatever the preventative measures are. I couldn't be bothered to keep reading much beyond that which I quote above.

If Trump wins and starts destroying the institutions of the republic, it would actually be sort of disappointing if more blood were not spilled.

Edited by RomaVicta
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