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Alec Baldwin Shoots and Kills Cinematographer, Wounds Director


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11 hours ago, Foosters said:

To all of you criminal law experts on this thread, can you point to some examples of bosses and executives being charged with involuntary manslaughter for the careless actions of their employees based on a theory of negligence in the hiring of that employee?

Because to me, it sounds like a lot of you are using concepts that exist within civil liability and trying to shoehorn them into criminal law.

I’ve practiced criminal law in Texas for 16 years as both a prosecutor and a defense attorney. I’ve never once seen someone charged with a crime because they hired someone or oversaw an employee that then acted negligently or even committed a crime intentionally or knowingly. But, I admit I know nothing about the laws of the state of New Mexico. 

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2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think you are absolutely correct here and that his being some form of "producer" doesn't legally make him responsible for negligent acts on set as in the case of an employer being responsible for an employee, a principal for its agent, etc.

But, I think you can be relatively certain that at any trial, his title of "producer" will be used against him, or attempted, to show that he had some authority or responsibility to call a halt to obviously negligent operation of the set, along with a bunch of other factoids, like how many times he's been around guns on the set, seen impromptu shooting ranges or plinking sessions going on with props and live ammo, etc.

I would expect that to be explored as it should be. I don't know what his direct observations were or what responsibilities he may have had for those observations. It's just my opinion based on knowledge of filmmaking that it's unlikely he bears any responsibility as a producer. 

My hope, as in all legal matters, is that the jury hears clear arguments, recognizes the relative value of evidence, and returns a just verdict.

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12 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:


Most folks would try to help their victims in this case. He left it for others to deal with.

You don't know what you would do. There are medical specialists on a set. She wasn't lying there bleeding out as Baldwin stepped outside to check his hair in a mirror. 

Some much stupid speculation and assumption. He's not a monster, he's a person just like anybody. Nobody knows for sure what they would do. I won't judge the actions of someone traumatized as he must have been.

 

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11 hours ago, Augustus said:

It's just as likely, in my opinion, that Baldwin's a narcissist and his immediate reaction was "oh shit how's this going to impact me, I need to walk away and think about this."

But there's no way to know.  If I accidentally blew somebody's head off I'd probably be pretty irrational for a bit.

Have you even met Baldwin?

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1 minute ago, RomaVicta said:

I would expect that to be explored as it should be. I don't know what his direct observations were or what responsibilities he may have had for those observations. It's just my opinion based on knowledge of filmmaking that it's unlikely he bears any responsibility as a producer. 

My hope, as in all legal matters, is that the jury hears clear arguments, recognizes the relative value of evidence, and returns a just verdict.

Yes, correct, as noted by two posts above, there's no "vicarious liability" in criminal law where, for example, an employer is automagically liable for the negligent acts of an employee.

In this particular criminal case, they will be arguing something similar to most civil negligence cases, and that is that Baldwin's actions violated a standard of care and I am relatively confident that the prosecution will attempt to use his title as producer as something to demonstrate that perhaps he knew more or should have been more careful than the average actor.

The average actor probably gets a pass on this.  Baldwin, for various reasons, including his experience as an actor and ostensible control over aspects of the production, is not. What a jury does with it will be interesting.

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1 hour ago, Captainant said:

It does get a chuckle out of me how all the most gun-ho posters in this thread that are incensed over AB don't seem to care much about other forms of gun violence ongoing in the country ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

They hate AB because has spoken out against the NRA and other gun rights activists.  This is the reason my BIL loves that this is happening...

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10 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

You don't know what you would do. There are medical specialists on a set. She wasn't lying there bleeding out as Baldwin stepped outside to check his hair in a mirror. 

Some much stupid speculation and assumption. He's not a monster, he's a person just like anybody. Nobody knows for sure what they would do. I won't judge the actions of someone traumatized as he must have been.

 

Bullshit.  The next thing my dad taught me after he taught me to never point a gun at someone unless you intend to kill them, and to treat every weapon you handle as loaded, is how to help the victim that you inadvertently shoot.   

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5 minutes ago, speed817 said:

They hate AB because has spoken out against the NRA and other gun rights activists.  This is the reason my BIL loves that this is happening...

If I were his lawyer, I would use that as part of his defense.

"Your honor, my client HATES guns, he doesn't like them, doesn't use them, barely knows how to use guns, so how could he be responsible for a shooting??? That does NOT make sense!!! He is not responsible for checking the weapon, since he doesn't know the difference between a bullet or a blank or even a potato. He can't possibly be held liable for this tragedy, because he didn't know what he was doing. How can you convict him if he doesn't know what he's doing? That does NOT make sense! Much like a Wookie living on Endor, that does NOT make sense! Unless maybe Ewoks are kinda like midget Wookies, and maybe Chewy is kinda kinky, I guess that could make sense, but it's still kinda gross. Maybe Mala wasn't meeting his needs at home, and he just so happens to land on the Hedonism Moon of the Outer Rim and has some crazy parties after helping save their race. Maybe Chewy just needed some time to go wild and get it out of his system, mix in some Yuzzums and Duloks, and then he's back on the galactic highway with his best buddy Han Solo.  But that all sounds way too farfetched, Chewy loves Mala, Lumpy, Itchy, and would never do anything to hurt them, so it does NOT make sense. I object to the charges against my client, and motion to adjourn for recess."

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9 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Bullshit.  The next thing my dad taught me after he taught me to never point a gun at someone unless you intend to kill them, and to treat every weapon you handle as loaded, is how to help the victim that you inadvertently shoot.   

My father taught me how to remove a bullet using a sharpened quarter and a toothpick then he taught me the proper way to gut a living cow so that I could keep the guy I inadvertently shot warm in the cavity of the dying bovine. 

Everybody on my street knew how to do this. We saved countless accidentally shot passersby!

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51 minutes ago, speed817 said:

They hate AB because has spoken out against the NRA and other gun rights activists.  This is the reason my BIL loves that this is happening...

lmao I must've hit too close to home because my post got deleted, classic surly snowflakes. I'm curious to know what rule I was breaking, and why Im BeInG cEnSorEd!!

Edited by Captainant
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11 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Have you even met Baldwin?

No, and that's why I said he may have been utterly distraught, but it's equally possible he could just be a really shitty guy.  I've got no idea.

I'd err on giving him the benefit of the doubt in this situation, but at the same time there's some evidence he's a really shitty human being at times.  I also suppose the same could be said of any of us.

So it's all idle speculation.

Edited by Augustus
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i would guess even a shitty guy wouldn't be able to control his actions after accidentally shooting someone.  it would have to be a really shitty guy who was also a serial killer.  i would even add that since it was completely unexpected, you have to bake that into the reaction.  even if a projectile flew out and shattered a car window, you'd have a "holy shit what the fuck" reaction.

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1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

i would guess even a shitty guy wouldn't be able to control his actions after accidentally shooting someone.  it would have to be a really shitty guy who was also a serial killer.  i would even add that since it was completely unexpected, you have to bake that into the reaction.  even if a projectile flew out and shattered a car window, you'd have a "holy shit what the fuck" reaction.

No doubt

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