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Posted
20 minutes ago, The Dog said:

 

One of the best things about that is the explanation, with citation, that "intent to defraud" as used in the statute is not what most lawyers and lay people think of defrauding someone.  It's anything that tends to frustrate the execution and application of state laws.  https://www.justsecurity.org/85831/the-broad-scope-of-intent-to-defraud-in-the-new-york-crime-of-falsifying-business-records/

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Posted
1 hour ago, Stilicho said:

This is pretty close to true. 
The 5 Tribes split (not sure the exact dynamics), but the Cherokee and Waite went with the Confederacy on the somewhat thin promise that they would get their ancestral homeland in Georgia back. But the Cherokee did own some slaves. 

Some?

Very few of my white ancestors that lived in the antebellum South had slaves (and this was true of most people with ancestors from that area/era - slaves were fucking expensive), but one of my Cherokee ancestors and her white husband owned nearly 100, five times as many as all of my other ancestors combined.

Bryan Cranston Reaction GIF

Once in a blue moon I get a DNA hit with somebody who is descended from one of their slaves.  If we make contact and get a general idea of how many generations back we go for a common ancestor, I'll send copies of the information, maps, etc. I've collected over the years, and usually the response is "wow, that was a lot of slaves" and "wow, they were forced to sell most off and then lost a bunch on the trail of tears along with half the family.  Karma is a bitch isn't it?"

 

Posted
7 hours ago, Stilicho said:

the Cherokee and Waite went with the Confederacy on the somewhat thin promise that they would get their ancestral homeland in Georgia back.

Suckers.

Posted
7 hours ago, Born to Run said:
On 4/4/2023 at 10:26 PM, Biff Tannen said:
dfccc094-ffb1-4b6e-8790-3d7c0447a928_text.gif

Unrelated, but you picked an absolutely fucked year for the PCT. Should have took up skiing. Dumpage.

Yep. Going anyway. Gonna be epic. 

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Posted
16 hours ago, YGIFS said:

I am just way behind on my dumbass history.  I just learned this week that April is Confederate History month with 7 states still celebrating it, and I honestly thought Missouri was part of the Confederacy.  But according to that map, it's not.  It's not that I'm stupid (I am dumb though), it's that I just don't care Bob.  

Texas has Confederate Heroes Day on Jan. 19 (Robt. E. Lee's birthday) which usually falls the same week as Martin Luther King Day.

Looking it up, I learned why the day and other disturbing shit. From Texas Monthly 2020

Quote

One of Texas’s most enduring memorials to the Confederacy isn’t a statue cast in bronze or a plaque dedicated to the Lost Cause.It’s a state holiday the Texas Legislature created in 1973, more than one hundred years after the Civil War ended. Every year, on January 19—Robert E. Lee’s birthday—Texas celebrates Confederate Heroes Day. It’s a “partial” holiday,” so state offices remain open, but employees can take a paid day off “in honor of Jefferson Davis, Robert E. Lee, and other Confederate heroes.” Even as monuments to the Confederacy have begun to fall in recent years, efforts to abolish or at least rename the holiday have nonetheless been fruitless at the Texas Legislature.

Why 1973? School bussing? This is back when we were Democratic. 

We've got to let this shit go. The cos-play re-enacters can play dress up if they like, but the state needs to get its mind right.

Oh, wait. I'm a Texan from Texas. It'll never happen.

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Posted
14 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Everyone gets it.

Someone posted some of Melania’s nude pics in a political thread recently. It was either in one of the Trump threads or the LGBTQ thread. Maybe go track those down and share your sanctimony with them. 

Pointing out your cringiness is not the same as being sanctimonious.  If I monitored all the threads for said cringiness  (as you would apparently have me do) then perhaps your "Karen" descriptor would be apt.   My interactions with you indicate you're always going to argue for the last word, so I'll stop now.  Perhaps though, think about how you appear to the outside world when you start describing your ideal pre and post boob job figures in a politics thread.  Some introspection would do you good.

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Posted
5 minutes ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Pointing out your cringiness is not the same as being sanctimonious.  If I monitored all the threads for said cringiness  (as you would apparently have me do) then perhaps your "Karen" descriptor would be apt.   My interactions with you indicate you're always going to argue for the last word, so I'll stop now.  Perhaps though, think about how you appear to the outside world when you start describing your ideal pre and post boob job figures in a politics thread.  Some introspection would do you good.

Lol

Posted
8 hours ago, tbone_ said:


8f9d20e3ebf84c903a7bd2a650737db1.jpg

He should plead guilty to the misdemeanors then go uptown and to the top of the Empire State Building to scream, "You're goddamn right I hit that!" 

8 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

Every news or sports anchor can tell you that. Television 101.

Posted

Digesting a lot of this stuff, I don't think there's any way the misdemeanor counts get dismissed, and I think it's pretty highly likely he is convicted on them.  That is also a more "pleadable" situation, and, regardless, would render this prosecution pretty much a wet fart.

Convicting on the felony level is going to be a bit more interesting, methinks.

Posted
21 minutes ago, Saint Tacky said:

go uptown and to the top of the Empire State Building to scream, "You're goddamn right I hit that!" 

Username checks out 

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Posted
26 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

what misdemeanors?

They are lesser included offenses to the felonies in the indictments.

I'm not sure procedurally how that would work, but it would put a bullet in this prosecution if he could unilaterally do that.

Posted
8 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

 

The fact that Derek has become one of the main characters of Twitter will never not be hilarious to me.

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Posted
1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

They are lesser included offenses to the felonies in the indictments.

I'm not sure procedurally how that would work, but it would put a bullet in this prosecution if he could unilaterally do that.

The DA ain’t going to let him plead out of the felonies. 
 

Posted
1 hour ago, royiv said:

Disgusted The League GIF

Ain't that the truth. Karen McDougal was one of my favorite Playmates of all time. The fact that Trump stuck his little mushroom dick inside of her -- and her MAGA-leaning politics -- has completely ruined her for me but we'll always have 1997 and 1998!

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Posted
12 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

Some?

Very few of my white ancestors that lived in the antebellum South had slaves (and this was true of most people with ancestors from that area/era - slaves were fucking expensive), but one of my Cherokee ancestors and her white husband owned nearly 100, five times as many as all of my other ancestors combined.

Bryan Cranston Reaction GIF

Once in a blue moon I get a DNA hit with somebody who is descended from one of their slaves.  If we make contact and get a general idea of how many generations back we go for a common ancestor, I'll send copies of the information, maps, etc. I've collected over the years, and usually the response is "wow, that was a lot of slaves" and "wow, they were forced to sell most off and then lost a bunch on the trail of tears along with half the family.  Karma is a bitch isn't it?"

 

Fair point.

Been a bunch of litigation concerning the status of Cherokee freedmen and whether they can be considered 'Indian' (since Indian = political classification, not race / ethnicity).

So 'some' was a bit of an underwhelming statement.

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Posted
5 hours ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

Pointing out your cringiness is not the same as being sanctimonious.  If I monitored all the threads for said cringiness  (as you would apparently have me do) then perhaps your "Karen" descriptor would be apt.   My interactions with you indicate you're always going to argue for the last word, so I'll stop now.  Perhaps though, think about how you appear to the outside world when you start describing your ideal pre and post boob job figures in a politics thread.  Some introspection would do you good.

Get Out Shut Up GIF by Jason Clarke

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Posted

I'm still interested in how you prove the other crime, whether it's Trump's or someone elses?

Beyond a reasonable doubt? Preponderance?  Clear and convincing?

I don't think you can really just introduce Cohen's conviction and leave it at that.

Another thing is that the "other crime" does not appear to actually have been committed.  Only that the falsifier intend that it be committed, so I don't think any conviction is even necessary.

The open question is "why did you disguise these payments as attorneys fees"?  To generate tax deductions?  To hide it from the FEC?

Posted
On 4/5/2023 at 10:55 PM, Stilicho said:

This is pretty close to true. 
 

The 5 Tribes split (not sure the exact dynamics), but the Cherokee and Waite went with the Confederacy on the somewhat thin promise that they would get their ancestral homeland in Georgia back. But the Cherokee did own some slaves. 

star wars GIF

 

read this back in 5th or 6th grade instead of the usual johnny tremain

https://www.amazon.com/Rifles-Watie-Harold-Keith/dp/006447030X

Posted
21 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm still interested in how you prove the other crime, whether it's Trump's or someone elses?

Beyond a reasonable doubt? Preponderance?  Clear and convincing?

I don't think you can really just introduce Cohen's conviction and leave it at that.

Another thing is that the "other crime" does not appear to actually have been committed.  Only that the falsifier intend that it be committed, so I don't think any conviction is even necessary.

The open question is "why did you disguise these payments as attorneys fees"?  To generate tax deductions?  To hide it from the FEC?

seems like it doesn't need to be beyond a reasonable doubt

 

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Posted
3 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

If that is true, all of those motherfuckers know Trump will throw them under the bus if given the chance.  He just thinks he's had a few people around that snitched on him.

Is why Lady G has been crying so much of late begging for money on his behalf, to remain in Trump's good graces. 

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Posted
3 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

If that is true, all of those motherfuckers know Trump will throw them under the bus if given the chance.  He just thinks he's had a few people around that snitched on him.

That's another way in which this criminal arena is so vastly different from what Trump has experienced before.  In civil litigation, sure, witnesses go under oath and perjury is a crime, but usually the only person questioning a witness is another party's private attorney, and usually before a private court reporter.  The specter of being held to account for lying and dissembling is remote.

Subpoenaing witnesses before a grand jury, to be examined by a prosecutor who can actually charge you with perjury or obstruction of justice, and being hauled before a judge where they pierce your privilege claims is a whole nother nutcheck level.

Most of Trump's allies are pantywaists like ladybugs that would lie and shade things in a civil case, but don't have the cojones to do it in a criminal case, where the penalties are closer and more real.

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Posted

In early November of 2016 when we saw this stupid ass country actually elected this jackass was there any question this would end any other way than insurrection, attempts to overthrow elections, and multiple entities seeking to charge him with a kaleidoscope spectrum of crimes?

The only thing that has been mildly surprising is the amount of Americans that continue to support this even with all the crimes and treachery being obvious. But in retrospect it isn't surprising. This has always been a country awash in it's own mountains of bullshit, propaganda, and cover ups but we just didn't want to believe the extent of it until confronted with something like this. 

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Posted

I think the people who were criticizing the move to indict Trump for the hush money coverup in New York before indicting him for his other crimes were wrong. You have your appetizer before the main course is served. Trump’s supporters can bitch about the triviality of hush money paid to Trump’s mistresses to keep them quiet during the 2016 election and say it doesn’t warrant prosecution. But I think it’s going to turn out that those charges won’t seem so trivial as the heavier charges pile up.

If the campaign finance violations, let’s call them what they are, whether that can be proven in a court of law or not remains to be seen but we all know perfectly well what they are, had been charged after the other three larger cases, it would’ve just seemed like piling on. Instead we get a ramping up in the charges and as their collective weight increases, that first case will be seen as just another in the pile of Trump’s many crimes. 

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Hermanator said:

This has always been a country awash in it's own mountains of bullshit, propaganda, and cover ups but we just didn't want to believe the extent of it until confronted with something like this. 

Well put. Our ruthless slaughter of indigenous communities and enslavement of foreign peoples are huge facts of our history, yet we dare not even acknowledge them for fear of upsetting our self-deception.

Self-deception and overblown self-congratulation form a toxic mix for any organization or endeavor.

Edited by RomaVicta
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Posted
Well put. Our ruthless slaughter of indigenous communities and enslavement of foreign peoples are huge facts of our history, yet we dare not even acknowledge them for fear of upsetting out self-deception.
Self-deception and overblown self-congratulation form a toxic mix for any organization or endeavor.
Wait a couple years. The GQP American exceptionalism will eventually include a mantra that America had the best slavery system in the world, and it was something to be proud of.
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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

It has been decades since I successfully tried a civil RICO case, but I have to say that the enterprise theory and predicate acts seem very provable in this case.  An Enterprise theory is the element where you show how people /entities are trying to take over other legitimate entities - think organized crime infiltrating labor unions.  
A predicate act in assistance would be any interstate email, phone call or snail mail.  For example, if you are rounding up supporters like Miss Lady Bug to threaten and hound politicians in Georgia - assisting Trump in finding him a set number of votes so he could be declared the winner - if interstate phone calls or emails are involved (and we know they were) it seems to me they have a plausible case.
A hell of a lot can happen in the law in decades, and so I have no idea whether it is harder now to prove a RICO conviction, but it used to be that any act in furtherance of the enterprise would subject someone to criminal liability as a co-conspirator. For example, calling up Georgia election officials and lying about the my pillow stolen election bullshit and why they should not certify the election, if they were also communicating with Trump and his organization in that effort, could be enough to get any number of those chuckleheads indicted as co-conspirators for making interstate calls or emails. 
Granted, this is criminal RICO, which I never did, as opposed to civil RICO. But back in the day if you had a decent enterprise theory of how the bad guys were trying to take over the good guy’s organization, finding predicate acts was never a problem.  Given the number of phone calls and emails involved in the Georgia post election strong arming, the cast of characters to be indicted could be very, very interesting.

Edited by Gatorubet
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