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2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.


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Posted
5 minutes ago, immamac said:

I don't see how my post is at odds with that it directly supports it. I have friends who are voting for trump and I talk to them about why and their answers are based in some alternate reality that they believe to be real. 

Imma’s friends:  we talk to imma about why he’s voting for Harris and his answers are based on some alternate reality that he believes to be real. 
 

Not being able to agree on basic facts as basic facts is kind of a big issue. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, AnTiM said:

It was around 1959 when I asked my dad about the difference between Republicans and Democrats.  His exact words were "Republicans are for the rich, Democrats are for everyone else."  I think about that now when I drive around and notice which properties have Republican campaign signs.  Exceptions?  Sure, but very damn few.

The best and most accurate one I heard is that the GOP is the party of evil, and the Democrats are the party of bullshit. 

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Posted
4 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

The bolded really, really pisses me off.  Stupid bastards were going to throw away democracy as a protest.  Fucking enraging. 

The problem is they’re young.  Without reflection, I instantly remember what happened when the Nader gave the country to Bush.    You know what happens when Stein or Nader upsets the chess game or you don’t.  Reading about what happened before they were born is less impact than having yet be a part of your political experience.    

I’ve had the discussion with my son numerous times, but he’s so sick of everything he probably would have voted for Biden, but he wouldn’t tell his friends about it.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Imma’s friends:  we talk to imma about why he’s voting for Harris and his answers are based on some alternate reality that he believes to be real. 
 

Not being able to agree on basic facts as basic facts is kind of a big issue. 

I don't think that's the impression I give off. There's plenty of common ground, but there's a lot of information available, but the sources have now become untrustworthy across the board. 

People keep trying to think there is some complexity to explaining things and the simple answer is generally what happened. 

There isn't as much meaning behind things happening as people want there to be. It's why people invented gods as a concept. That's not to say there isn't an ultimately simple answer to creation being a higher power etc etc, but the entire faith based argument of religion being replaced by a bunch of faith based arguments in conspiracy and MAGA is starting to look like the simple answer. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

 

The most succesful tack I've tried in those conversations is to
a) Point out that it's fallacy to think of the United States as a major protagonist of events in the Palestine/Israel conflict. When I do this, they agree, and argue that what they really seek is disinvestment and the use of American soft power as leverage to curb Israeli policy, and will generally concede that Trump is unlikely to do that. Then I 
b) point out that as college students at an elite institution they are privileged to feel far less of an impact if Trump is elected. When I do this, they will reflexively argue that they will be impacted, drastically, in terms of civil rights, Democracy and the imact of climate change on themselves and their children. This usually leads to them grudgingly conceding that they will probably vote for Biden/Harris.

I just ask them why they care so much and then point out how much shit they have to worry about that isn't that. 

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Posted
14 minutes ago, immamac said:

I don't see how my post is at odds with that it directly supports it. I have friends who are voting for trump and I talk to them about why and their answers are based in some alternate reality that they believe to be real. 

I don’t disagree with your sentiment that people who vote for Trump are “deluded” and making choices that are not based in reality.

I’m just venting that it sucks ass that these deluded people are all around us intertwined in our lives and it’s really fucking with my perception of the things that I love. 

I think less of my sister who supports Trump and I try not to sit next to her during holiday dinners because I don’t want to hear much of anything she has to say. I think less of Quinn Ewers for supporting Trump and don’t want to buy one of his jerseys even though I support the entire team. I will never actively root against my sister or Quinn Ewers based on their support for Trump, but I do have a tendency to unfairly question their decision making skills when shit doesn’t go as planned for them just because they are Trump supporters (which, ironically, is a deluded way of thinking). 

I don’t want to think like this because it’s just generalization that has nothing to do with supporting Trump, but unfortunately that’s the way my mind works. The level of delusion exhibited by Trump has caused me to view his supporters in the same way because it is incomprehensible that anyone could support him. And it’s sad because that’s the type of thinking that Trump supporters have about us from their side of the aisle. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, BehoId, The Underminer! said:

If you’re debating policy issues with kids, you’re going to lose imo.  They’re are reasonable policy thoughts either direction.  Trump’s danger is his existential threat to democracy, asking Georgia to falsify results, using the White House as a money maker etc. 

they’re are?

Posted
20 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

The most succesful tack I've tried in those conversations is to
a) Point out that it's fallacy to think of the United States as a major protagonist of events in the Palestine/Israel conflict. When I do this, they agree, and argue that what they really seek is disinvestment and the use of American soft power as leverage to curb Israeli policy, and will generally concede that Trump is unlikely to do that. Then I 
b) point out that as college students at an elite institution they are privileged to feel far less of an impact if Trump is elected. When I do this, they will reflexively argue that they will be impacted, drastically, in terms of civil rights, Democracy and the imact of climate change on themselves and their children. This usually leads to them grudgingly conceding that they will probably vote for Biden/Harris.

I don't disagree, and I've tried similar tactics.  I think the concept of an increasingly authoritarian government can ring hollow with someone who was trying to make top 6%, score booze and get laid when Trump left office.  Most were sheltered by well-meaning parents.  The fragility of democracy is slowly absorbed over years, decades even, and not every kid is going to understand the parameters or certainly the history beyond the basics.

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Posted
45 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

The best and most accurate one I heard is that the GOP is the party of evil, and the Democrats are the party of bullshit. 

I once saw a standup who said something like "Democrats are the party of bad ideas, Republicans are the party of no ideas." 

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Posted

 

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

None of them were going to vote Trump.  They weren't going to vote.  I'm telling you, a 20-year-old kid, no matter how high their IQ, they just don't process everything like people with less tread on the tires.

Good judgment comes from experience 

Experience comes from bad judgment 

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Posted
4 hours ago, immamac said:

Am I understanding correctly that Trump has not said anything positive about the Americans who have been imprisoned being returned to the US and instead of congratulating the families he congratulated Putin?

I'm convinced that anyone voting for trump is a deluded person. The only ones I've met and talked to are deep into conspiracy theories and resemble the people in all those interviews people do at Trump rallies there's something really wrong with people who can't identify or come to terms with a truth at odds with what they want. 

 

58 minutes ago, immamac said:

I don't see how my post is at odds with that it directly supports it. I have friends who are voting for trump and I talk to them about why and their answers are based in some alternate reality that they believe to be real. 

I have someone in my life who I've just recently decided to have to cut out completely. I've tried many, many times to reason with them and show them the truth they're not seeing. At some point it's to your own detriment to keep trying. That's where I am at. If you haven't figured out that guy is a demonic Creamsicle by now, I can't help you. At some point it becomes about self preservation and sanity. Maybe they'll see the way eventually, but I ain't got time for that shit anymore. 

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Posted
Just now, The Original Greaser Bob said:

I think Harris/Quisp would be just as good but America not ready for a woman/gay alien ticket.

What about Harris/Fruit Loops? 

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Posted
12 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I don't disagree, and I've tried similar tactics.  I think the concept of an increasingly authoritarian government can ring hollow with someone who was trying to make top 6%, score booze and get laid when Trump left office.  Most were sheltered by well-meaning parents.  The fragility of democracy is slowly absorbed over years, decades even, and not every kid is going to understand the parameters or certainly the history beyond the basics.

Oh sure, but the last part is key - their privilege. If you tell them they won't suffer the consequences they'll argue the point. That only leads one place. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, immamac said:

I don't see how my post is at odds with that it directly supports it. I have friends who are voting for trump and I talk to them about why and their answers are based in some alternate reality that they believe to be real. 

One of my wife’s friends from HS is absolutely convinced there are anywhere from 3 to 5 Biden body doubles that make all his public appearances. Like believes down to the bone the govt can

a) find 3-5 dudes in their 70s to 80s that look and sound enough Biden to fool millions of people 

b) keep that fact a secret in this day and age

 

How do you have any type of meaningful discussion with someone like that?

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Posted

A black guy at the bar last night told me "Yeah Trump is racist but Republicans are better with the economy. Trump cut my taxes and gave me some money during covid. Democrats want to send all my money to Ukraine....Also did you see they let that man beat up a woman in boxing? I can't support Democrats thinking men should beat up women."

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

A black guy at the bar last night told me "Yeah Trump is racist but Republicans are better with the economy. Trump cut my taxes and gave me some money during covid. Democrats want to send all my money to Ukraine....Also did you see they let that man beat up a woman in boxing? I can't support Democrats thinking men should beat up women."

I would’ve told him I hope he gets to be a house slave instead of a field slave once Trump becomes dictator.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

A black guy at the bar last night told me "Yeah Trump is racist but Republicans are better with the economy. Trump cut my taxes and gave me some money during covid. Democrats want to send all my money to Ukraine....Also did you see they let that man beat up a woman in boxing? I can't support Democrats thinking men should beat up women."

he sounds pissed ... royally pissed. 

Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

One of my wife’s friends from HS is absolutely convinced there are anywhere from 3 to 5 Biden body doubles that make all his public appearances. Like believes down to the bone the govt can

a) find 3-5 dudes in their 70s to 80s that look and sound enough Biden to fool millions of people 

b) keep that fact a secret in this day and age

 

How do you have any type of meaningful discussion with someone like that?

You don't because they're being disingenuous and inventing ways to dislike him.  Their same logic often doesn't apply to the other candidate.  That's youth though.  I was one of the Nader kids that thought I was taking the higher road between two evils. I also voted for Perot because he funded his own election.  I was a problem voter, not a solution, and finally saw that I was really only getting the worst evil elected, so to hell with that. 

Ask them questions like how hard would it be to keep a book and movie deal covered up, along with the promises of instant fame, money and celebrity were certain?  And in a world where everything is surveilled, especially one of the the highest positions in the world, how would that play out? And then start asking them when did they begin having these concerns and why, with nothing pointing that they were indeed accurate, since it's not been revealed.  Isn't that the meaning of faith based?  Where do they get their information, which can be debunked pretty quickly since everything is connected somewhere.  

Edited by Mdhorn
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Posted
40 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

The closer it is the more eyeballs they get. 

Those swing state numbers are not actual polls. They are statistical estimates based upon the national poll.

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Posted
2 hours ago, linux said:

I keep saying that if our only avenue to survival is the fickle nature of kids then we are playing with fire, that they have to be dangled candy in order to vote against end of the world fascism, this is NOT sustainable. 

Who are we calling kids here? Seriously. Twenty to early thirties? Collegians? I will presume to take up their perspective.

I think when they say "too old" that they're saying more than "it's time for the young generation to take over."

Two geriatrics where one is a criminal lunatic who manages to get elected and the other is well-meaning but is stuck in the past of political discourse and literally difficult to understand, present more than an aesthetic objection.

I'm guessing that many view the world governments including the US as Greta Thunberg does. The short-sighted profit/growth driven economies and governments are doing very little to address issues that deal with their future. The olds still see the world as having a future similar to when they themselves were young. The olds are fucking way off.

Climate cataclysm is the easiest example, and it indeed exemplifies what the young must be seeing in any number of contexts. They just really don't give a fuck, and there's nothing I can do about it.

They see BLM and Me Too dismissed or even villified in the case of the former. They see 60s style police crackdowns on non-violent demonstrations on campus. They see a criminal system of justice unable to even jail the leader of an insurrection they saw on TV.

There has been a cold-blooded collaboration between banks, governments, and colleges to strap them with high five to six digit debt the day they leave school to embark on their young lives. That is unconscionable, shameless, and mandatory. The college loans are unironically presented as providing "opportunity" while severely limiting same. Horrifying.

The young already exist in a de facto fascist-authoritariam society in which their interests don't matter unless they conform to the rapine ways that got us here. Get the job to pay the loan to live the future your grandpa did which doesn't exist anymore. 

I won't promote what is essentially "we didn't include them, so why don't they feel included." Their world will go to shit and they will rightfully hate all of us as selfish materialists. 

So, yeah, I don't see myself having an easy time sidling up to a "kid" and offering to set them straight on how to run things.

 

1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

Well, schools don’t seem to teach WW2 anymore and something like 10% or more don’t believe in the holocaust, so it’s hard to be surprised they have little concern. 
 

Edit:

 

sorry it is 20%
https://www.economist.com/united-states/2023/12/07/one-in-five-young-americans-thinks-the-holocaust-is-a-myth

And, here in Idiot World, they'll blame teachers instead of the dickheads interfering with curricula from above.

 

1 hour ago, Surly Bevo said:

It's not that kids can't or don't have smarts.  Kids lack wisdowm

We've got tons to share. How do you think we got ourselves and the world to where it is today?

My friends, there is a rich fountain of absurdity or absurdism going around. Wisdom is in short supply and always has been. Age does not automatically confer it.

 

44 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

The best and most accurate one I heard is that the GOP is the party of evil, and the Democrats are the party of bullshit. 

Close to my take. The GOPs are evil and the Dems are weak. Maybe the Dems are bucking up.

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Posted
21 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

A black guy at the bar last night told me "Yeah Trump is racist but Republicans are better with the economy. Trump cut my taxes and gave me some money during covid. Democrats want to send all my money to Ukraine....Also did you see they let that man beat up a woman in boxing? I can't support Democrats thinking men should beat up women."

And then he asked you for 3.50?

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Posted
1 hour ago, Gatorubet said:

The problem is they’re young.  Without reflection, I instantly remember what happened when the Nader gave the country to Bush.    You know what happens when Stein or Nader upsets the chess game or you don’t.  Reading about what happened before they were born is less impact than having yet be a part of your political experience.    

I’ve had the discussion with my son numerous times, but he’s so sick of everything he probably would have voted for Biden, but he wouldn’t tell his friends about it.

Nader didn't give the country to W., the Supreme Court did.

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Posted
25 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

One of my wife’s friends from HS is absolutely convinced there are anywhere from 3 to 5 Biden body doubles that make all his public appearances. Like believes down to the bone the govt can

a) find 3-5 dudes in their 70s to 80s that look and sound enough Biden to fool millions of people 

b) keep that fact a secret in this day and age

 

How do you have any type of meaningful discussion with someone like that?

Yeah, my sister went on a similar rant recently about Biden's earlobes and sent me this. It's difficult to find common ground.

 

joe_biden.jpg

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Chris Christie is not a dumb man.


He was one of the first endorsers of Trump in 2016. And almost died from Trump giving him Covid in 2020. 

Edited by Firemans4Horn
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Posted
3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Nader didn't give the country to W., the Supreme Court did.

Absent Nader it never goes to the Supreme Court.  So I agree to disagree with your Palsgraf opinion. 

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Posted
33 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

thought this was a good take

 

For a second I thought he was gonna say Shapiro was “building bridges” to unite people with his “open beaches” of ideas. But, you know. 

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