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Posted
32 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

So here's an NYT article speculating some ways Cannon could gum up the works. https://www.textise.net/showText.aspx?strURL=https%3A//www.nytimes.com/2023/06/09/us/politics/trump-documents-judge-aileen-cannon.html#site-content

The article notes that the Clerk of SD Fla insists this was a random assignment.  Hmmm.

One thing is says is that the DC Circuit's attorney-client privilege rulings are not binding on the trial court, notably as pertains to Corcoran's notes, which clearly inform a lot of the indictment.

I don't see how that can possibly be.  The article says the DC Circuit's rulings only apply to what can be shown to a grand jury, not to a trial jury.  That don't make no sense.  Once the privilege is gone, it's gone.  There's not a/c privilege for some purposes and not others.

One notable contrast between the Special Master case and this criminal case.  The appointment of a Special Master was discretionaryand, although she was found to have abused her discretion, that still gives the judge some latitude.

There are very few decisions in a criminal case that are discretionary.  One exception is scheduling.  That's where this could go to shit.

It's gonna be fun when she just starts making shit up again to fuck with and delay the process. Goddamn the simulation has to be fucking with us to just by happenstance assign this case to this specific judge. 

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Posted
7 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:
  • 46% of Surly are lawyers
  • 46% of Surly are doctors
  • 2% of Surly are both
  • 2% of Surly are pilots
  • 2% of Surly are engineers (1 member of Surly is a lawyer and an engineer, but the stats don't reflect it)
  • 2% of Surly are in the entertainment industry
  • 2% of Surly are math majors
  • 99% of Surly are t-shirt fans
Posted
2 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

This chick fucking crushed it. That’s how you Fox News. 

 

LOL at her Dr Seuss opening.

He hid them here or there
He hid them almost anywhere
He hid them in his house
He hid them with his buried ex-spouse
He moved docs from box to box
And took them away via ox
Other boxes of doxes went in a car
He moved them very, very far

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Posted
1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

Biden found classified docs in his garage next to his vintage corvette and immediately turned them over to the government. So it’s “what about Biden.”

Gotcha.  I knew he found some and immediately turned them over.  I missed the where.

Posted
1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Ben Shapiro believes that Trump took these “because he sees things he likes and takes them.”

I need to be clear that I absolutely believe this, even as “he just liked them so he took them” is not a legal defense.
 

There is an order of operations to figuring out why and how DJT does things and you should always solve for the stupidest solution first. He’s not a complicated man and there’s nothing more below the surface. 

When you’re famous they let you. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Ben Shapiro believes that Trump took these “because he sees things he likes and takes them.”

I need to be clear that I absolutely believe this, even as “he just liked them so he took them” is not a legal defense.
 

There is an order of operations to figuring out why and how DJT does things and you should always solve for the stupidest solution first. He’s not a complicated man and there’s nothing more below the surface. 

 

2 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

When you’re famous they let you. 

Hereafter to be known as the "Grab 'Em By The Pussy" Defense.

Edited by Goredho
Posted
1 hour ago, Hookah Horns said:

Couldn't even finish the ineffective wall. 

No president can really do much about the border until congress fixes immigration, which looks like it'll never happen. 

Which is my point.  Congress has no desire to touch immigration.  The GQP can keep their donors happy with cheap labor and their voters happy by giving them brown people to blame their inadequecies on.  The Dems, well, I think they'd have a hard time with the progressives of their party.

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Posted
1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Ben Shapiro believes that Trump took these “because he sees things he likes and takes them.”

I need to be clear that I absolutely believe this, even as “he just liked them so he took them” is not a legal defense.
 

There is an order of operations to figuring out why and how DJT does things and you should always solve for the stupidest solution first. He’s not a complicated man and there’s nothing more below the surface. 

Chris Christie made the same observation when he was in defense-of-Trump mode.

It’s true, Trump is a simple man and easy to figure out. He’s a serial grifter and profit motive is going to come before a desire to have a shiny object to show off to his friends. He took them because they had value. Maybe the LIV tournament deals with Trump courses and the Saudi-backed plan to build a Trump Tower Oman weren’t just payments for services rendered or a downpayment on a possible future Trump presidency. When it comes to Trump, always assume first that it’s all about the grift. 

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Posted

I don’t understand how anyone thinks that the shit being decided in the state where he has the most ardent supporters by a judge he appointed has any chance of resulting in a relatively bad outcome for Trump.  I don’t see any chance whatsoever this prevents him from getting the GOP nomination and I don’t at all see this being the deciding factor  in whether or not he wins the general election.

Once J6 happened and he survived politically, it was clear that truth and morality are no longer playing a role.

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Posted
8 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:
  • 46% of Surly are lawyers
  • 46% of Surly are doctors
  • 2% of Surly are both
  • 2% of Surly are pilots
  • 2% of Surly are engineers (1 member of Surly is a lawyer and an engineer, but the stats don't reflect it)
  • 2% of Surly are in the entertainment industry
  • 2% of Surly are math majors

 

I once had a first officer that was an anesthesiologist as his side gig. I pass gas as well.

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Posted
3 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Their justification story will change a dozen times in the next week.  And his primary opponents will pounce in that.  And then they start blasting one another.  This is gonna be magnificent 

No, they won’t. Other than Christie, they all have to publicly lament the injustice of all this and Biden’s corrupt DOJ in transparent (and unsuccessful) attempts to spread their ass cheeks for MAGA. They’ll carry Trump’s water while privately praying that Smith finishes the deed. 

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Posted
2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Possible, yes.  I think this is it, though, for Trump and the documents.  

There's no "theft of documents" crime, per se.  18 USC 793 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793 does make it an offense to " copies, takes, makes, or obtains, or attempts to copy, take, make, or obtain" defense information.  But, I don't think they have solid evidence of knowledge and intent on the days surrounding January 20, 2021.

As we have seen with Biden and Pence, shit happens packing out, what makes it criminal is what happens later, when it's discovered.

So, although technically they could attempt to charge him with 793(b) for the initial taking, I think for evidentiary reasons (lack of) and policy reasons, they won't.

Ok, so that makes sense.  The entire time I was reading the indictment I kept thinking to myself that the initial taking was still a crime, but given that everyone seems to accidentally leave with stuff that would make some sense.  It's a crime, but intent is really difficult to prove, unless of course he said to steal them on tape, despite protests from his attorneys, then he acknowledge that he was in fact stealing them.  

Not that he has a history of something like that now.  

Posted
10 hours ago, Bama Chick said:

This thread is both hilarious and educational for us non-lawyer types.
 

I'm a little late to the party, but this is an incredible thread, summary of the indictment. He is so fucked

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Posted
Cannon is going to smear feces all over this process. We know it. She knows it. Trump knows it. The goal has always been to get re-elected before prison so he can pardon himself or fire anyone, etc. 

Twice, is there any way for the prosecution to remove Cannon from the process, or swiftly move through her various stalling tactics by appealing to a higher court?

Her bias seems quite clear at this point, so it stuns that DOJ can’t somehow push for her recusal.
Posted
Yes, he can elect trial before the court and there's nothing the government can do about it.
But, assuming Smith has the goods, which I think he does, Matthew Kaczmaryk and Clarence Thomas would have to convict, let alone Aileen Mercedes Cannon.  
He'd be much better off betting on a hung jury with a magat.

Bullshit. If he somehow gets a bench trial, 100% change she acquits. She’s a crooked judge. Ask yourself “how would this work in a banana republic,” and you have your answer.
He’s so fucked, but his hand picked judge is about to let him play his delay game. It’s going to take at least 2 years for this trial to happen, maybe 3 
[/url]  


And absolutely this - this is the real game. Just delay it all till he walks away with the GQP nomination, and then GQP state legislatures and the SCOTUS declare him POTUS.
So here's an NYT article speculating some ways Cannon could gum up the works. https://www.textise.net/showText.aspx?strURL=https%3A//www.nytimes.com/2023/06/09/us/politics/trump-documents-judge-aileen-cannon.html#site-content
The article notes that the Clerk of SD Fla insists this was a random assignment.  Hmmm.
One thing is says is that the DC Circuit's attorney-client privilege rulings are not binding on the trial court, notably as pertains to Corcoran's notes, which clearly inform a lot of the indictment.
I don't see how that can possibly be.  The article says the DC Circuit's rulings only apply to what can be shown to a grand jury, not to a trial jury.  That don't make no sense.  Once the privilege is gone, it's gone.  There's not a/c privilege for some purposes and not others.
One notable contrast between the Special Master case and this criminal case.  The appointment of a Special Master was discretionaryand, although she was found to have abused her discretion, that still gives the judge some latitude.
There are very few decisions in a criminal case that are discretionary.  One exception is scheduling.  That's where this could go to shit.

Exactly. That is the play.



I did not know that, that’s actually good news. Still, the delay is the game.

Yep.

Diggity gets it. We are in a post-truth, post-rule of law world. It’s undeniable.

I wish a Rudy was. Running a blade through that deranged fuckstick in single combat would be the best moment of my life.

Goddamn. This sequence is perfect. It really should be written as a rule.
Posted

It mentioned security footage of the body man moving the boxes around - I wonder if they were able to get footage of anyone else investigating the boxes, if they have security footage from a narrow window/narrow bit of the home or if they’ve reviewed for curious wanderers walking up to the stage, etc

Posted
At a visceral level, I wanted to see the government mow down the traitors attacking the Capitol. I feel the same about open carry cosplay soldiers showing up the intimidate the court and turning violent. They ask for it. They get it.
I think the restraint on the part of the Capitol Police, heroic restraint, served this country better in the long run. 
I start imagining the images of open gun violence and dead citizens littering the ground and it's sickening. They deserve it, but I'd rather delay that necessity for as long as we can. It will lead to a drastic increase in domestic terrorism as the patriots defending America from bad guys will take up cowardly attacks on family members of those in government.
If we can just ease this spikey turd out of our system without fatally damaging ourselves, we should try to do it. That means restraint up to the same point Ashli Babbit found out. Okay, your close to getting your hands on an official. Have some of this.
But the visceral desire to kill them all before they kill the republic is strong. 
 
 
 

It is strong….because it is right.
Traitors take up arms against my country, traitors get dead. Let’s stack the dead traitors up like it was Gettysburg.
You don’t reason with violent traitors. You kill them.
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Posted
16 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I think the restraint on the part of the Capitol Police, heroic restraint, served this country better in the long run. 

I think a few well aimed shots to the face would have really convinced a lot of those peaceful tourists to leave immediately and head on home.

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Posted
2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

So here's an NYT article speculating some ways Cannon could gum up the works. https://www.textise.net/showText.aspx?strURL=https%3A//www.nytimes.com/2023/06/09/us/politics/trump-documents-judge-aileen-cannon.html#site-content

The article notes that the Clerk of SD Fla insists this was a random assignment.  Hmmm.

One thing is says is that the DC Circuit's attorney-client privilege rulings are not binding on the trial court, notably as pertains to Corcoran's notes, which clearly inform a lot of the indictment.

I don't see how that can possibly be.  The article says the DC Circuit's rulings only apply to what can be shown to a grand jury, not to a trial jury.  That don't make no sense.  Once the privilege is gone, it's gone.  There's not a/c privilege for some purposes and not others.

One notable contrast between the Special Master case and this criminal case.  The appointment of a Special Master was discretionaryand, although she was found to have abused her discretion, that still gives the judge some latitude.

There are very few decisions in a criminal case that are discretionary.  One exception is scheduling.  That's where this could go to shit.

I think that's why basically the only substantive thing Jack Smith said to the press was "speedy trial" and then walked off from the podium. If I'm him, I hope the press echo chamber runs with that.

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Who cares if every single Maga supporter vote for him again, he will lose the election bigly. Every hard-core Maggat person I know is still for him. Every liberal person I know will not vote for him, but I also know a lot of blue dog Democrats and now-rare liberal to moderate Republicans….as well as a bunch of former Republicans, who just can’t stand their party anymore and are independent. NONE of that last group like Trump. And I know a lot of people in the former-Republican-who-registered-independent crew eight years later, and you could not pay them to elect Trump.
So fuck the Trumpers - all we need are the independents to read the indictment and act accordingly.That plus pissed-off Roe v Wade wimmins and the always increased voting as they age young people (coupled with the dirt napping of his core voters due to 8 years from 2016 olds) and we are on the good path again. We only needed a couple % points in a few states in 2016 - Trump’s high water mark. 
The GOP is now forced to support Trump on this, and this sack of shit will bring pain to the down ballot races, just like he did in Georgia.

As I’ve said multiple times, I am the demographic that decides elections. And if that continues to hold, there should be no way he wins, unless the primary competitors and Biden somehow outrageously shit the bed. I will vote for a weekend at Bernie’s candidate over Trump. 

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Posted

I read the indictment. It's insane. It's so insane that the only thing crazier is that he's made it this far. That fact is now a different indictment on everything within the system of checks and balances. And it's that strain of insanity that makes it possible for even more. 

Judge Cannon. That's the craziest shit out of all. They are not concerned how brazen it has to be anymore. She will openly deliver the "nothingburger." 

Posted
1 hour ago, Snake Diggity said:

I don’t understand how anyone thinks that the shit being decided in the state where he has the most ardent supporters by a judge he appointed has any chance of resulting in a relatively bad outcome for Trump.  I don’t see any chance whatsoever this prevents him from getting the GOP nomination and I don’t at all see this being the deciding factor  in whether or not he wins the general election.

Once J6 happened and he survived politically, it was clear that truth and morality are no longer playing a role.

He survived politically because his party has no alternatives and no backbone. Apparently the venue county preferred Biden by a slim margin. So a jury of 12 people from there is not going to simply roll over for Trump.

By the way lost in all the hubbub is the fact that this was basically banked on by DeSantis and his financial supporters like a blue shell in Mario Kart. He's trying not to revel too much in this for fear of alienating the people who would need to switch their support in the primary, but make no mistake, this is the most important event for DeSantis's campaign manager.

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Posted

Man, I was thinking about this last night. Canon is getting excoriated by every talking head on every network. Imagine if you were her watching everyone in the country commenting that you are a political hack who fucked things up the first time - with most people assuming she has so little morals or ethics that she’s gonna do it again.

She may be unredeemable and stupid and corrupt. But most people in her situation would have some sense of going down in history as a piece of shit who defended the man who endangered his country. You might say she has no problem with that as long as Trump puts her on the 11th Circuit as soon as he is elected. I think there is at least as good chance that she not does want her name forever attached as a corrupt and incompetent buffoon.

 Like most Trump supporters, she is a selfish piece of crap. Being a selfish person in that situation, I’ll make the bet that she’s self-recuses in light of the uniform attacks on her yesterday and today.  Not because it’s the right thing, but because she knows that piece of crap is not getting reelected -and so she needs to end her connection with him for her own good

 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

 Like most Trump supporters, she is a selfish piece of crap. Being a selfish person in that situation, I’ll make the bet that she’s self-recuses in light of the uniform attacks on her yesterday and today.  Not because it’s the right thing, but because she knows that piece of crap is not getting reelected -and so she needs to end her connection with him for her own good

 

This is my feeling as well. And I think people will suggest this to her

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Posted
9 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Man, I was thinking about this last night. Canon is getting excoriated by every talking head on every network. Imagine if you were her watching everyone in the country commenting that you are a political hack who fucked things up the first time - with most people assuming she has so little morals or ethics that she’s gonna do it again.

She may be unredeemable and stupid and corrupt. But most people in her situation would have some sense of going down in history as a piece of shit who defended the man who endangered his country. You might say she has no problem with that as long as Trump puts her on the 11th Circuit as soon as he is elected. I think there is at least as good chance that she not does want her name forever attached as a corrupt and incompetent buffoon.

 Like most Trump supporters, she is a selfish piece of crap. Being a selfish person in that situation, I’ll make the bet that she’s self-recuses in light of the uniform attacks on her yesterday and today.  Not because it’s the right thing, but because she knows that piece of crap is not getting reelected -and so she needs to end her connection with him for her own good

 

Caveat, unless she’s a true believer who thinks she’s saving the country. The real problem here is most of these fucks BELIEVE the shit they peddle. Not trump. But his morons often do. 
 

and no matter what, even if she recuses herself, she’s tied to this shit bag forever.  If she steps aside, then MAGA country will always think of her as a traitor, and probably try to pop her at some point. 

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Posted
10 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

I don't think she will recuse voluntarily.

She won't. They don't care. The stark bias is almost a bonus for them. And even if it ever feels too visible they can "what about" their tits off into eternity. Cannon will sprinkle maga turds all over this. 

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Posted
24 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Man, I was thinking about this last night. Canon is getting excoriated by every talking head on every network. Imagine if you were her watching everyone in the country commenting that you are a political hack who fucked things up the first time - with most people assuming she has so little morals or ethics that she’s gonna do it again.

She may be unredeemable and stupid and corrupt. But most people in her situation would have some sense of going down in history as a piece of shit who defended the man who endangered his country. You might say she has no problem with that as long as Trump puts her on the 11th Circuit as soon as he is elected. I think there is at least as good chance that she not does want her name forever attached as a corrupt and incompetent buffoon.

 Like most Trump supporters, she is a selfish piece of crap. Being a selfish person in that situation, I’ll make the bet that she’s self-recuses in light of the uniform attacks on her yesterday and today.  Not because it’s the right thing, but because she knows that piece of crap is not getting reelected -and so she needs to end her connection with him for her own good

 

Her actions here will definitely show how deep in the Mickey D's filled asshole her head resides. Is she willing to risk professional suicide on the seemingly low chance Trump is re-elected after all of this plus his violent overthrow attempt after he lost the last time? 

What is the recourse available to Smith if she does obviously obstruct the prosecution? Given the indictment information if Smith has all of that nailed down she'd have to go way out of her way to mess it up. It would be painfully obvious what she's doing. 

Posted
9 minutes ago, Red Five said:

So can we expect a trial date of approximately February of 2025?

Given the majority of federal court cases go to trial within 12 months of filing, and almost all within 18 months, what grounds could she use to delay it past that? It would reach a point where the story becomes this radical corrupt judge interfering in the prosecution of this former President who has absolutely damning evidence against him. We know the hard core magas won't budge but everyone else will only get more angry by the corruption. I can't think that helps trump's chances in the election. 

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Posted
17 minutes ago, deech said:

She'll never recuse herself.   It's laughable that anyone thinks she would.  The last few opinions she wrote in Trump matters should tell you all that you need to know about what she is going to do. 

This. The most accurate predictor of future behavior is past behavior. This judge already explicitly, literally ruled that Trump is entitled to special treatment. All bets are off with this hack. I'd be happy to be wrong. 

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

Man, I was thinking about this last night. Canon is getting excoriated by every talking head on every network. Imagine if you were her watching everyone in the country commenting that you are a political hack who fucked things up the first time - with most people assuming she has so little morals or ethics that she’s gonna do it again.

She may be unredeemable and stupid and corrupt. But most people in her situation would have some sense of going down in history as a piece of shit who defended the man who endangered his country. You might say she has no problem with that as long as Trump puts her on the 11th Circuit as soon as he is elected. I think there is at least as good chance that she not does want her name forever attached as a corrupt and incompetent buffoon.

 Like most Trump supporters, she is a selfish piece of crap. Being a selfish person in that situation, I’ll make the bet that she’s self-recuses in light of the uniform attacks on her yesterday and today.  Not because it’s the right thing, but because she knows that piece of crap is not getting reelected -and so she needs to end her connection with him for her own good

 

That's it exactly.  Choices are:

  • Cozy up to a guy who's not getting elected and possibly wind up in jail one way or another (i.e., betting $100 to win $5)
  • Recuse myself and be out of the game.

And if she's trying to figure out her next move, hanging with DeSantis might be a better option.

Edited by Bullneck


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