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Posted
2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

He’s talking about leftists ridiculing people who believe in God and then being surprised when they don’t feel inclined to vote with them

Those people sound like really shitty Christians. 

Wait, am I allowed to say that here or will Biden lose more votes?

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Posted
3 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

The differences are more important.  The 1920s and 1930s saw a lot of Germans down on their luck and with no outlet for them to speak their minds outside of demonstrations, no steady food source, and few distractions to keep their minds occupied after the WWI losses, and the Treaty of Versailles hurting them economically. In other words, some serious hardships arose for a lot of Germans,

Just thank God you never had to wear a mask at the Dollar General

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Posted
21 minutes ago, SubliminalHorn said:

And had Germany not declared war on the US, would we have even become as involved in Europe as we eventually did?

I’ve seen an argument made that Roosevelt’s trade policy with respect to Japan was a deliberate attempt to bait Japan into attacking us so that we could get into the war with Germany. 

Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

The differences are more important.  The 1920s and 1930s saw a lot of Germans down on their luck and with no outlet for them to speak their minds outside of demonstrations, no steady food source, and few distractions to keep their minds occupied after the WWI losses, and the Treaty of Versailles hurting them economically. In other words, some serious hardships arose for a lot of Germans,

2020s MAGA doesn’t have the kinds of actual feel it in your starving stomach or empty bank account grievances the Germans had, has food security, has an outlet (social media) to blow off steam to keep them from rioting through the streets (not that they have reasons to riot other than losing) , and has distractions (internet, social media, Fox News).

That’s why even if 75 million people voted for Trump, only a few thousand were there on January 6th. That’s why Trump’s rallies have been going down hill and attendances is in the hundreds or thousands. MAGA talks a lot of shit, but at the end of the day, most are too comfortable in their double-wides, with their big-screen TVs and duallies they are forever making payments on to do anything that risks their wellbeing,  in the 1920s you had a lot of Germans who had nothing to lose at all.

IDK how you did it, but this makes me at least tiny inclining more sympathetic to Nazi sympathizers. [Hear me out!]

A least they had some sort of an excuse? I mean a pretty prosperous / industrious / militaristic society was completely in the shitter.

MAGA doesn’t have anything other than the idiot box feeding them lies, their own personal squandered life head start, and their laziness in not fact checking anything they hear with reality. 

They haven’t yet approached the level of depravity as the Nazis (thank god), but one had to think it’s only because they’re so dumb and not for a lack of motive.

Edited by Dnaguy
Posted
I’ve seen an argument made that Roosevelt’s trade policy with respect to Japan was a deliberate attempt to bait Japan into attacking us so that we could get into the war with Germany. 
He also sent cruisers to the Pacific to keep an eye on Japan when tensions were high and there was a great likelihood of Japan sinking the odd cruiser.  In America’s “Remember the Maine!” tradition, the sinking of one of his pop-up cruisers would cause the death of approximately the same amount of military personnel as we lost at Pearl Harbor.   He was more than willing to risk that, and some would say he would not be entirely displeased if Japan had sunk one of the cruisers - because that would be the alternate path to war in the Pacific - and therefore war in Europe - had Pearl Harbor never happened.
I truly do believe in the adage that never attribute malice to what can be explained by simple incompetence, so I fall on the side of the fence that thinks Pearl Harbor was not known in advance… But I would not bet my life on it.
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Posted
4 hours ago, BevoAbyss said:

For MAGA: Let’s say, for example, taking on the cartels south of the border … and, just to be sure … take all of Mexico to completely stop the flow of drugs and immigrants. What better way to secure our border. Mexico would quickly surrender/collapse in the face of Pentagon power. MAGA and the Christians-Catholics could establish a proxy government in Mexico City, but run from the US.

I think this is a real possibility.

Rolling Stone article

Reuters article

NYT article -paywall

Let’s say there are strikes on cartels. It’s possible the cartels begin a terror campaign in the US. A possible response is a full scale invasion into Mexico.

The war plays right into Trump’s narrative. The southern border is war zone.

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Posted
2 hours ago, SubliminalHorn said:

And had Germany not declared war on the US, would we have even become as involved in Europe as we eventually did?

Yes.  There is no way we were letting Hitler take over England.  As long as England was still in the fight they weren't going to let Hitler just chill out on the Champs-Élysées sipping on Bordeaux and munching on croissants.

Posted
11 hours ago, BevoAbyss said:

It boggles my mind that so many Surly posters and the mainstream media cannot see the 100% obvious parallels between the Nazis and MAGA. I know few will read this, but here are the parallels. 

And do I remember correctly that Hitler had a secretary named Trump, and Trump's secretary's middle name is Hitler? 

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Posted
22 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

MTV, Dungeons and Dragons, or Whitesnake were also acceptable alternatives to video games in that statement.

I would have been in favor of what Whitesnake era Tawny would have done to me. 

Music Video 80S GIF

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Posted
9 hours ago, BevoAbyss said:

With all due respect, you are incorrect. Atom, you’re a good poster. But, you and many other Surly posters — I guess from mostly McCombs and the corporate/capitalist world — need to realize humans are not 100% economic minded. Far from it.  

What do Harlan Crow and West Texas billionaires have in common with MAGA fanatics living in trailer parks? It’s not fucking loads of money or fear of hunger.

— It’s a hard-core belief in God and Christianity, racism, and fear of leftist wokeism. That’s their great fear … not finding a loaf of bread in the Great Depression.

— That’s why cultural similarities are far more important, as mentioned in my original post. It does not matter that Germans had economic hardship and MAGA doesn’t much of any. 

What does matter are the endless cultural fears and grievances … the heavily Christian followers, the racism, the belief "my country is being taken by immigrants,” the belief "woke is grooming my kids.”….  It’s the idiot world culture (Q, conspiracy, astrology, pseudoscience, etc.), the combo of ignorance and arrogance. … It’s the belief in a Great Leader, the belief that God has their back in a Great Destiny of Christian Cultural Purity. 

That’s why, with no economic hardship, MAGA is still fucking seizing power across America. They are establishing a fascist theocracy, gutting schools, banning books, and targeting pregnant women, LGBTQIA, immigrants and promising deportations. … They are celebrating and posing with automatic weapons, attacking all kinds of established sciences, putting 10 Commandments in classes, openly telling everyone they will establish a CHRISTIAN DICTATORSHIP in Project 2025.

None of this has to do with economic hardship. We’re not in a Great Depression and yet fascism is on the march and seizing power, in Texas and across America.

Look beyond economics. It’s the cultural environments all around us, right before our eyes. 

Plainly stated, they’re hard core Trumpists because he hates the same people they hate and they find great solace in that.

Posted
36 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

Stop Tom Clancy. Just stop.

If we’re talking tom clancy, it gets even better.

Opening scene: Putin at his black sea villa watching “Charlie Wilson’s War”

plot: Putin funds and supplies arms to cartels through venezuela

US facing down a proxy war with cartels on its southern border. Russia able to storm into ukraine. Ben Affleck saves the day.

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Posted
7 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

Besides just being an overall ugly message, I never get the whole, “America. Love it or leave it” attitude. It also makes zero sense even when considering their “make America great again” motto. Because apparently they don’t love American today so why aren’t they leaving?

in reality, we know what they mean which is that we should accept their view of America or leave.

Posted
36 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Besides just being an overall ugly message, I never get the whole, “America. Love it or leave it” attitude. It also makes zero sense even when considering their “make America great again” motto. Because apparently they don’t love American today so why aren’t they leaving?

in reality, we know what they mean which is that we should accept their view of America or leave.



“Straight White men built the roads we drive on, the buildings where we live, and the ones that fought and declared independence from the tyranny of the British for us to have freedom and the pursuit of happiness,” Gomez said. “To anyone that does not like America, GTFO [get the f*** out].”


It's funny that she should say this, since the road in front of my house was redone over the last couple of months and all I saw was Hispanics doing almost 100% of the manual labor and women holding the go/stop flags at the end of the street on both ends and at least one of the supervisors was African American.  I didn't question them on their sexual orientation. 



 

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Posted

From Valentina Gomez' website, first line in her bio:

Quote

Valentina is a real estate investor, financier, strategist, former NCAA Division I swimmer, relentless achiever, and a fierce advocate for the principle values we hold dear as Americans battling for a better future.

I'm sure Tulane is very proud of her achievements.

Oh, she's an immigrant from South America telling Black Americans to GTFO.  Once again, we find irony is dead.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

“Straight White men built the roads we drive on, the buildings where we live,

Yeah, that one in particular made me chuckle.  I haven't seen a road or construction crew in Texas in my entire life that was predominantly or even largely made up of "white men."  When I was a kid in SETX....outdoor hard working crews (construction, roofers, etc.) were mostly.....black.   Over the past few decades, that shifted to mostly (if not entirely) hispanic.  Fucking fantastic.

And the icing on the cake?  As she eagerly plays the "straight white men are the only people who matter!" card....she has zero fucking awareness that when the purge comes, her spic ass is being shoved in a train car to be deported with the rest of us.  Leopards, faces, etc.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

He'll win in a landslide. 

As he should.  "Chased a stripper with a gun after they had a disagreement" is the most endearing thing I've read about a Republican in years.

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Posted

Was it a policy dispute they had, or what is that he contends because "Pour Some Sugar on Me" skipped ahead 37 seconds by the DJ, that he was owed another lap dance at no additional charge?  

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:



“Straight White men built the roads we drive on, the buildings where we live, and the ones that fought and declared independence from the tyranny of the British for us to have freedom and the pursuit of happiness,” Gomez said. “To anyone that does not like America, GTFO [get the f*** out].”


It's funny that she should say this, since the road in front of my house was redone over the last couple of months and all I saw was Hispanics doing almost 100% of the manual labor and women holding the go/stop flags at the end of the street on both ends and at least one of the supervisors was African American.  I didn't question them on their sexual orientation. 



 

Shit dude, you don't even have to go that far. See bolded.

No one tell her who built the railroads. 

Edited by SydneyCarton
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Posted
1 hour ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

 

 

 

 

The Daily Mail story doesn't really add much info (shocker): https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13552267/republicans-stripper-arrested-neil-friske-michigan.html

Quote

A Republican lawmaker from northern Michigan was arrested in the early hours of Thursday morning after police responded to reports of a man with a gun and possible shots fired.

Neil Friske, 62, has a record as a hardline conservative and has put faith and family at the heart of his campaign to be reelected to the state House of Representatives. 

He was arrested after chasing an adult dancer following a disagreement, according to the Michigan Information and Research Service, which covers the state capitol.

The video player is currently playing an ad.

His campaign quickly issued a bizarre statement suggesting the case was politically motivated.  

'As many of us know, Rep Friske is always exercising his Second Amendment right,' it said. 

'We do not have any details, besides what the media sourced, oddly before anyone of us knew anything.

'It is highly suspect considering the timing of this situation.'

It went on to say the arrest came just before absentee ballot papers were released and days after an unknown phone number conducted polling on Friske's race against an 'opponent with deep state ties.' 

'We ask everyone for prayers and to stay tuned for updates directly from this campaign or Representative Friske himself,' it said.

'Thank you for the outpouring of concern and unwavering support we have received this morning. Clearly, Rep. Friske is over the target in this race.'

A request for comment from his campaign was not immediately returned.

'Around 2:45 a.m. on 6/20/24, members of the Lansing Police Department were dispatched to the 2100 block of Forest Rd for a report of a male with a gun, as well as possible shots that were fired,' said police spokesperson Jordan Gulkis.

'Our officers quickly responded and made contact with all the parties involved. An accused was arrested for a felony-level offense.'

Gulkis added that the investigation continued and evidence would be presented to prosecutors for possible charges on Friday. 

Property records show he was arrested close to a condo he owns, according to the Detroit news. 

About 40 minutes after police said Friske was arrested, two posts appeared on his X account, discussing legislation banning pornography produced by A.I. without the consent of people in the image. 

'I'm not going to cave to the pressure of special interest. I'm not afraid of the false accusations, like 'Friske is for AI Porn' when a bill denies THE PEOPLE their rights to properly defend themselves,' his account posted at 3:25am, along with a follow-up.

Friske is one of the most hardline conservatives in the House. He is a member of the Freedom Caucus, which lines up against the vast majority of legislation brought before them in the Democratic-led legislature. 

 

Posted
1 hour ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

 

 

 

 

So an old buddy of mine that lives in the Yooper in his district, said he fired the weapon between his house and Deja Vu's strip club.  But is unsure, as are authorities if she was running from his house back to the club (like some sort of door-dash champagne room situation.  Or he was trying to bring her from the club back to his house and things went sideways.  Even a pro-gun guy like this wouldn't be dumb enough at the start of the night to be running for re-election and carry a handgun into a liquor-licensed bar knowing he'd be grabbing ass and chugging bass.  

So couldn't help myself, called his office.  Obviously he's not in today.  Asked the Staffer what happened, he said he couldn't comment on it.  Asked where I was from, so I used my buddy's town on Drummond Island in the Yooper.  He asks for my info to call me back.  didn't do it, but left him with something to think about.  "We thank Rep. Friske for his service to our district.  He's the biggest tragedy to happen to the Yooper since the Edmund Fitzgerald" and hung up.  Now that dipshit has to walk around the Capitol asking people who "Edmund Fitzgerald" is, and gonna get a lot of weird looks---as if he's not already having a tough week.  I had a new high fiber cereal this morning for breakfast so I had some spare time.

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Posted

We love 'Welcome to Wrexham.' This would be another positive for Wales: https://studyfinds.org/wales-first-country-to-criminalize-politicians-who-lie/

Wales could become first country to criminalize politicians who lie

Quote

Trust and confidence in UK politics and the election system have never been lower. One of the central reasons for this breakdown in trust is the widespread popular belief that some politicians have made a practice of lying to the public. Research published in 2022 showed the British public overwhelmingly wanted lying politicians to face consequences. And while the UK’s general election is grabbing the headlines, a proposal in Wales’ Senedd (Welsh parliament) is seeking to address this issue by introducing new legislation that would criminalize politicians who lie.

If passed, Wales would become the first country in the world to introduce criminal sanctions for lying politicians.

The proposals are being led by the former leader of Plaid Cymru, Adam Price, who has described a “credibility gap” in UK politics as a “gaping chasm.” Price has pushed for such changes since the mid-2000s when he campaigned for the impeachment of Tony Blair over the war in Iraq.

Price tried and failed to introduce an offense for politicians who lie when laws were passed in May expanding the size of the Senedd. But a cross-party committee has now voted in favor of Price’s proposals, and they are being considered for incorporation into the new elections and elected bodies (Wales) bill instead.

Under the proposals, it would be a criminal offense for a member of the Senedd, or a candidate for election to the Senedd, to wilfully, or with intent to mislead, make or publish a statement that is known to be false or deceptive. Proceedings would have to be brought within six months from the date on which the statement was made.

It would be considered a defence if it could be “reasonably inferred” to be a statement of opinion, or if it were retracted with an apology within 14 days. Being prosecuted for such a law would disqualify a person from being a Senedd member.

The proposals are not yet law, and the bill has further debate stages yet to go. Price’s amendment is supported by Plaid Cymru, the Welsh Conservatives and the Welsh Liberal Democrats.

But so far the amendment does not have the support of the Welsh Labour government and ministers may attempt to have it removed. The Welsh counsel general (similar to the UK government’s attorney general), Mick Antoniw, has said he supports the “general principle,” but is concerned that the amendment “amounts to little more than bad and ineffective law.”

There are also broader concerns about whether the Senedd has the ability under Wales’s devolved powers to make such a law. While Wales can pass laws in respect of the operations of the Senedd, legally speaking there are problems when it comes to straying into the realms of criminal offenses. In this instance it is unlikely the Senedd would be able to expressly create a criminal offense such as this.

The Senedd may find itself in territory akin to what Scotland experienced when the UK government blocked Scotland’s gender recognition bill. In January 2023, the UK government invoked section 35 of the Scotland Act to veto proposals designed to make it easier for people to change their legal gender, on the grounds they would affect equality law for the whole of the UK.

Is such a law necessary?

The Welsh ministerial code already exists and is meant to uphold the standards of constitutional and personal conduct of ministers. The Senedd has an independent standards commissioner, who is an “impartial provider of advice on any matter of principle relating to conduct of members of the Senedd.”

But the commissioner doesn’t deal with complaints relating to the actions of the Welsh government and ministers carrying out Welsh government business. Nor do they investigate issues relating to the performance of Senedd members. The standards commissioner’s website states that this is because: “Issues relating to performance of the member of the Senedd in his or her role is essentially a matter for the electorate at the ballot box.”

There are also the Nolan principles which apply to those elected or appointed to public office across the UK. They include the principles of “integrity,” “openness,” and “honesty.”

The problem with the current regime is a lack of enforcement. Beyond accountability to the electorate during elections, there are very few repercussions when politicians mislead the public. This is helping to fuel a mistrust of politicians, and casting doubt over what can be believed.

Laws may be a stepping stone to restoring trust and facilitating enforceability in a different way, and with legal safeguards. In terms of standards, it would bring politicians more into line with what is expected from other professions, such as lawyers and doctors. Of course, members of these professions aren’t criminalized unless they explicitly break the law, but they are held to account if they fail to maintain certain standards and can be struck off as a result.

Politically speaking, while the Welsh government could seek to remove anti-lying amendments at future debates, that would do little to signal trust in those elected to public office. In fact, it could prove to be even more damaging.

This issue is likely to shine a spotlight on the constitutional devolved competence of the Senedd itself. But trust in politics is a UK-wide issue. While some politicians are trying to put a sticking plaster over the wound, the new UK government will need to work with all devolved administrations to take more significant steps to rebuild trust.

It’s a bleak indictment of democracy that a law reminding politicians not to lie is even being considered. But a culture change in politics is evidently needed.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

I didn't question them on their sexual orientation. 

Women on a construction crew?  C’mon man.  Men too actually, based on Trump’s favorite song. 

Edited by Pato del Muerto
Posted
On 6/19/2024 at 5:05 PM, atomheartbevo said:

Thankfully there’s an easier solution to dealing with them

 

I knew these guys looked familiar…

jack nicholson batman GIF

Posted
9 minutes ago, pacman said:

talk about not understanding the end game...

100%.

They lap up the "oh no, you're one of the good ones" praise.....all the while being too stupid to realize that when the MAGAs have cemented their grip on power, there are no "good ones."  Shit, they'll turn on their fellow christo-fascist white supremacists for not being "loyal MAGA" enough.  They'll damn sure turn on your spic ass before then, Jorge.

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Posted
12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

100%.

They lap up the "oh no, you're one of the good ones" praise.....all the while being too stupid to realize that when the MAGAs have cemented their grip on power, there are no "good ones."  Shit, they'll turn on their fellow christo-fascist white supremacists for not being "loyal MAGA" enough.  They'll damn sure turn on your spic ass before then, Jorge.

Exhibit A: Mike Pence

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Posted
3 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Exhibit A: Mike Pence

There's a thousand exhibits.  They can't wait to turn on and crucify any number of "RINOs," with the sole criterion for being a "RINO" being "anything demonstrating even the possibility of not having 100%, unquestioning loyalty of Our Lord God Trump."  And the funny thing is, that doesn't even need to be true -- they just need to say it is, and then crucify the person as an apostate.

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Posted
24 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

There's a thousand exhibits.  They can't wait to turn on and crucify any number of "RINOs," with the sole criterion for being a "RINO" being "anything demonstrating even the possibility of not having 100%, unquestioning loyalty of Our Lord God Trump."  And the funny thing is, that doesn't even need to be true -- they just need to say it is, and then crucify the person as an apostate.


Which is ironic, because their Lord God Trump doesn't hold any core beliefs, other than believing in the course of action that will make him the most money the quickest.  I mean, this is a man who his entire life was pro-choice. 

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Posted
27 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

There's a thousand exhibits.  They can't wait to turn on and crucify any number of "RINOs," with the sole criterion for being a "RINO" being "anything demonstrating even the possibility of not having 100%, unquestioning loyalty of Our Lord God Trump."  And the funny thing is, that doesn't even need to be true -- they just need to say it is, and then crucify the person as an apostate.

When your entire movement is based on hate, you can't run out of people to hate. You have to feed the beast and find new people for your followers to blame for being behind in life, else they start blaming you. 

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

When your entire movement is based on hate, you can't run out of people to hate. You have to feed the beast and find new people for your followers to blame for being behind in life, else they start blaming you. 

We have always been at war with Eastasia.

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Posted
3 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

President Jefferson himself said it in 1802 in a letter to the Baptist Association of Danbury Connecticut

image.png.b447277ad043f58c2b9e9159b16fa7ea.png

Jefferson?  Quoting and citing the EXACT text of the First Amendment's Establishment clause?

8d9c8fde-25eb-418e-930e-24168b210fe8_tex

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Posted

Why, exactly, must the 10 Commandments be in every classroom? I'm a militant atheist and would be equally horrified at a proposal that all classrooms contain signs that say "There is no God". Or "Earl Campbell is your God now". Well ok maybe that would be acceptable.

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Posted (edited)

Hearing Landry say that out loud, I'm now bracing for a new history lesson from Alito, Thomas and crew explaining why they're compelled to overturn centuries of 1st Amendment case law so that Y'all Qaeda can force their christofascist fairy tales down every kid's throat.  Lovely.  Feels like I'm overdue for some shooting range time ...

Updated: Furk.  I haven't been paying attention because apparently they've already started down this path with Bremerton.  

Quote

Most significantly in 2022, the Supreme Court marked a change in how it will interpret Establishment Clause cases going forward. In Kennedy v. Bremerton School District, the high court declared it had abandoned the Lemon test and instead, will interpret the Establishment Clause in “reference to historical practices and understandings.” In the majority opinion, Justice Neil Gorsuch wrote that that the lower courts had created a “vice between the Establishment Clause on one side and the Free Speech and Free Exercise Clauses on the other,” a conflict he associated with the Lemon test. Instead, he viewed the establishment and free exercise clauses as complementary and working together to decrease unnecessary government interference with religion. 

Establishment Clause | Separation of Church and State (mtsu.edu)

Prepare for more Calvinball ...  

Edited by Gap03
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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, Dnaguy said:

MAGA doesn’t have anything other than the idiot box feeding them lies, their own personal squandered life head start, and their laziness in not fact checking anything they hear with reality. 

Sure they do- the end of class mobility in the United States, and the likely permanently broken implicit promise to share equally in the value of productivity gains.
They are, rightly, furious and neither the traditional Republican Party nor the Democratic Party has offered anything other than bootstraps bullshit or sad jokes like “we’ll teach them to code.”

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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