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Posted

So the jury gets instructions prior to the closing statements, which are to be a made a week from now.  Well ok, first how long realistically will closing arguments be, roughly a few hours each?  I'd be so pissed if I were on the jury just wanting this to be done with.  

 

Posted
28 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

So the jury gets instructions prior to the closing statements, which are to be a made a week from now.  Well ok, first how long realistically will closing arguments be, roughly a few hours each?  I'd be so pissed if I were on the jury just wanting this to be done with.  

 

Apparently one (or more) of the jurors had vacay plans so we can't go and string his ass up until happy fun time is over.

Posted
1 hour ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Apparently one (or more) of the jurors had vacay plans so we can't go and string his ass up until happy fun time is over.

Yeah, one has plans tomorrow (they’re normally off on Wednesday but that prevents a reschedule) and another has an early afternoon flight on Friday. Monday is a holiday. You don’t want the jury to start deliberations on Thursday then break for a long weekend so they’ll get started on Tuesday. 

Posted

I know they got alternates so things can’t be totally mucked up but I’m not so sure if I was a juror on this thing I would feel great about blowing town with the proceedings still ongoing.

Posted

image.png.6317dfe3ff83e78de67bf581555337ee.png

"If the courts in New York come after any of you because of something you said, because you said something the ruling class didn't like, and that's what all these other countries are about," he continued. "They want to be sure that anyone that speaks up against the ruling class disappears."

"They want to take him off the main stage because they know he is their biggest danger to take on the ruling class."

"Isn't Donald Trump part of the ruling class?" one nearby journalist asked.

Patrick quickly fired back: 'Now, no, you know what? Donald Trump is not the ruling class. Donald Trump is for every New Yorker. He's for every Texan, every, every state."

"Donald Trump has put his whole life on the line, his whole life on the line for the American people," he added.

Video clip linked at the bottom of the article: https://www.rawstory.com/trump-surrogates-ruling-class/

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Posted

i’m not sure about all that law stuff, but if Costello was either representing or attempting to represent Cohen - all the while secretly working for Giuliani and Trump to let them know what Cohen was up to - that seems to be an itsy-bitsey, teeny-weenie sort of, kinda ethics problem that someone needs to point out to Costello’s state bar grievance committee. 

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Posted
46 minutes ago, bolverk said:

image.png.6317dfe3ff83e78de67bf581555337ee.png

"If the courts in New York come after any of you because of something you said, because you said something the ruling class didn't like, and that's what all these other countries are about," he continued. "They want to be sure that anyone that speaks up against the ruling class disappears."

"They want to take him off the main stage because they know he is their biggest danger to take on the ruling class."

"Isn't Donald Trump part of the ruling class?" one nearby journalist asked.

Patrick quickly fired back: 'Now, no, you know what? Donald Trump is not the ruling class. Donald Trump is for every New Yorker. He's for every Texan, every, every state."

"Donald Trump has put his whole life on the line, his whole life on the line for the American people," he added.

Video clip linked at the bottom of the article: https://www.rawstory.com/trump-surrogates-ruling-class/


who paid for his trip to nyc ?

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

i’m not sure about all that law stuff, but if Costello was either representing or attempting to represent Cohen - all the while secretly working for Giuliani and Trump to let them know what Cohen was up to - that seems to be an itsy-bitsey, teeny-weenie sort of, kinda ethics problem that someone needs to point out to Costello’s state bar grievance committee. 

Prosecution's final questioning of Costello was to hammer home that he never represented Cohen 

Posted
11 minutes ago, Doc Sam Beckett said:

Prosecution's final questioning of Costello was to hammer home that he never represented Cohen 

I hear you homes.  But it seemed clear that Costello was trying to get Cohen to retain him for improper purposes. I do not think the bar would ignore a conviction for a hiring a hitman on the basis that the murder never occurred.  The attempt is kind of the thing.

I guess I am wrestling with the fact that he was trying to get Cohen on board with an avowed secret intent to have a non-waivable conflict of interest in that representation.    Since the attempt was in writing, like an email to a potential hitman, I’m wondering if the lack of success of the attempted bad act will be defensible. 

Mostly, I’d like to see a grievance brought just to see what they’d say - and to have that shithead squirm a bit and have his reputation besmirched even more.   

No prosecutor will even have to say it, but the collection of smarmy, dishonest, reprehensible Trump confidants (like Costello, Giuliani and Cohen) paraded before them will be a thing that the jury cannot ignore - they all work for the lying shithead in orange and all behave in a way that his firm culture dictates - which would seem to support Trump‘s Stormy misdemeanoring/felony-ish behavior as a just another day at work in Trump World. 

It will not be a jury instruction and possibly not a direct point on close (not sure the propriety of that) but I think every juror will carry that perception with them into the jury room.

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Posted
40 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:


who paid for his trip to nyc ?

I think it was part of a marketing junket provided by Lane Bryant.  Or maybe J. Jill.  I think it's all on the up and up.  

Posted
On 5/20/2024 at 2:49 PM, tx ind said:

too easy, now do it with Butch Body, Huckabee Sanders, and Sidney Powell

The only acceptable answer is "kill myself ".

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Posted
8 hours ago, bolverk said:

image.png.6317dfe3ff83e78de67bf581555337ee.png

...

"They want to take him off the main stage because they know he is their biggest danger to take on the ruling class."

"Isn't Donald Trump part of the ruling class?" one nearby journalist asked.

Patrick quickly fired back: 'Now, no, you know what? Donald Trump is not the ruling class. Donald Trump is for every New Yorker. He's for every Texan, every, every state."

 

Quote

“I gave to many people before this -- before two months ago I was a businessman. I give to everybody. When they call, I give. And you know what, when I need something from them two years later, three years later, I call them. They are there for me. That's a broken system.”

- Donald Trump, 2015

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Posted
11 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

i’m not sure about all that law stuff, but if Costello was either representing or attempting to represent Cohen - all the while secretly working for Giuliani and Trump to let them know what Cohen was up to - that seems to be an itsy-bitsey, teeny-weenie sort of, kinda ethics problem that someone needs to point out to Costello’s state bar grievance committee. 

Why?  It's not like a state bar is going to do fuck all about it.

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Why?  It's not like a state bar is going to do fuck all about it.

Yes. Every single one of the 50 states’ Bars act the exactvsame way.   The bar associations of individual federal district courts act the same way, no matter where you are in the country.    Even though they claim to actually follow different rules, you have correctly surmised that every single one is the same and will do nothing.   That is why you are so wise.

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Posted

I think the point of cross-examination with the emails was to prove he was a go-between between Cohen and Trump via Rudy all along.  I don't think it has anything to do with his ethical obligations to Cohen.

Posted
3 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

Yes. Every single one of the 50 states’ Bars act the exactvsame way.   The bar associations of individual federal district courts act the same way, no matter where you are in the country.    Even though they claim to actually follow different rules, you have correctly surmised that every single one is the same and will do nothing.   That is why you are so wise.

yawn.  Fuck all is going to happen.  I’m not the one constantly defending a corrupt system ol’ wise one.

Posted

Blanche is getting fucking PAID: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-debt-legal-fees-lawyers-b2549448.html

Quote

Mr Blanche is representing Mr Trump who stands trial for falsifying business records over alleged hush money payments to adult star Stormy Daniels to quash claims of an alleged affair ahead of the 2016 presidential election.

The ex-president owed $837,000 to the firm with a majority of the fee accruing since the end of March, with jury selection for the case commencing on 15 April. Blanche Law has since been paid $854,000, according to The Daily Beast.

Mr Blanche is set for a lucrative year, also defending Mr Trump for his classified documents case in Florida, which has been postponed, and co-counsel for his federal election interference case in DC.

Quote

Founded and controlled by Mr Trump, Save America leadership political action committee (PAC) has been his primary fundraising and political spending wing since he left the White House.

According to Save America’s most recent filings with the FEC, the former president owes approximately $1.1 million to five law firms. One law firm accounts for Save America’s greatest debt: Blanche Law, founded by Todd Blanche.

and Save America is paying a lot of legal bills:

Quote

Additionally, Save America dished out nearly $3.3 million in May on legal consulting.

 

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Posted
On 5/21/2024 at 10:45 AM, Red Five said:

Did we get the moment in the courtroom where the judge tells Trump that it's his decision and his decision alone whether or not to testify?

At least call out his BS and say if he wants to talk about the other witnesses in the case the proper forum is under oath from the witness stand.  

Posted
1 hour ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

yawn.  Fuck all is going to happen.  I’m not the one constantly defending a corrupt system ol’ wise one.

We have enough real world negative problems without you creating fictional new ones all the time.  Also, you need to learn the difference between defending and explaining. 

I cannot say, if Trump will be guilty or not, but I can say that the system is working perfectly in this case, and that the judge and the prosecutor and the appellate courts and “the system” is so far working perfectly.   There have been no bullshit rulings, and everything has been on the up and up.

Of course, you will ignore the 100 correct rulings that have happened so far in this case and latch on to one if it’s not to your liking as an example of the corrupt system. 

That does not mean I don’t agree we should repeatedly keelhaul Alito using the Constitution….the frigate, I mean. 

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Posted
19 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Yeah, one has plans tomorrow (they’re normally off on Wednesday but that prevents a reschedule) and another has an early afternoon flight on Friday. Monday is a holiday. You don’t want the jury to start deliberations on Thursday then break for a long weekend so they’ll get started on Tuesday. 

I heard there may be some high school/college graduations too.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

We have enough real world negative problems without you creating fictional new ones all the time.  Also, you need to learn the difference between defending and explaining. 

I cannot say, if Trump will be guilty or not, but I can say that the system is working perfectly in this case, and that the judge and the prosecutor and the appellate courts and “the system” is so far working perfectly.   There have been no bullshit rulings, and everything has been on the up and up.

Of course, you will ignore the 100 correct rulings that have happened so far in this case and latch on to one if it’s not to your liking as an example of the corrupt system. 

That does not mean I don’t agree we should repeatedly keelhaul Alito using the Constitution….the frigate, I mean. 

I wouldn't quite say perfectly.  Although delay is inherent to the system and can be exploited, some things are being delayed more than they should be, e.g. Cannon and appeal of the immunity decision.  I thought the Florida case had the best chance of getting tried to verdict before the election, but the CIPA stuff was a bit of a wildcard there and I think the jury there will be a huge wildcard as to guilty/not guilty, although I think the evidence is near-indisputable.

Posted
29 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

We have enough real world negative problems without you creating fictional new ones all the time.  Also, you need to learn the difference between defending and explaining. 

I cannot say, if Trump will be guilty or not, but I can say that the system is working perfectly in this case, and that the judge and the prosecutor and the appellate courts and “the system” is so far working perfectly.   There have been no bullshit rulings, and everything has been on the up and up.

Of course, you will ignore the 100 correct rulings that have happened so far in this case and latch on to one if it’s not to your liking as an example of the corrupt system. 

That does not mean I don’t agree we should repeatedly keelhaul Alito using the Constitution….the frigate, I mean. 

Nothing about the classified documents case has been on the up and up.  Cannon will never hear that case if she has anything to say about it.

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Posted
19 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

That Florida case is very possibly never going to trial, even if Trump loses in November.

 

12 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Nothing about the classified documents case has been on the up and up.  Cannon will never hear that case if she has anything to say about it.

Seems that way.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/22/politics/trump-documents-case-judge-cannon-hearing/index.html

Quote

A hearing in the Mar-a-Lago classified documents case devolved into shouting Wednesday as attorneys battled over an alleged threat made last year to a defense attorney.

The morning proceeding in Fort Pierce, Florida, had been scheduled for Walt Nauta, one of former President Donald Trump’s co-defendants, to present arguments that special counsel Jack Smith’s team had selectively and vindictively brought charges against him. The presiding judge, Aileen Cannon, did not issue a ruling from the bench.

But the hearing quickly diverted into a longstanding disagreement over an August 2022 meeting between prosecutor Jay Bratt and Nauta’s defense attorney, Stanley Woodward. Woodward has claimed in court proceedings and filings that Bratt attempted to pressure him into convincing Nauta to cooperate against Trump by threatening to affect a potential judgeship nomination.

Nauta claims that he was criminally charged in the case as retaliation for declining to cooperate with the Justice Department’s investigation into the former president’s retention of classified documents at his estate.

This photo from the US Department of Justice allegedly shows Walt Nauta moving boxes inside former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate in Palm Beach, Florida. 

From US Department of Justice

“I had been recommended for a judgeship, that’s beyond dispute,” Woodward said Wednesday. “There was a folder about defense counsel on the table” during that meeting, he said, claiming Bratt referenced that judgeship recommendation.

“I think the implication was that I was to travel and convince Mr. Nauta to cooperate with the investigation, and if I didn’t that, there would be consequences,” Woodward said.

Prosecutor David Harbach then rose and accused Woodward of engaging in “procedural gamesmanship” by making a “garbage argument” about the meeting.

“Mr. Woodward’s story of what happened at that meeting is a fantasy,” Harbach shouted, banging his hand on the lectern in front of him. “It did not happen.”

The heated proceedings Wednesday come as the Manhattan hush money case against Trump nears its conclusion and a new phase of pretrial activity gets underway in the federal classified documents prosecution in Florida.

The hearing was the first before Cannon since she indefinitely delayed the start of the trial, which had been scheduled to begin as early as this week. It has been more than a month since the judge last held a public, in-person hearing in the case – though she has held at least one sealed proceeding since then.

Trump is charged with taking classified national defense documents from the White House after he left office and of resisting the government’s attempts to retrieve the materials. Trump, Nauta and Mar-a-Lago property manager Carlos De Oliveira have all pleaded not guilty.

During Wednesday’s hearing, Harbach slammed Woodward, saying he chose not to report the alleged incident until months later and has repeatedly changed his recollection of the conversation.

“This is a lawyer whose allegations amount basically to him being extorted,” Harbach said of Woodward, waving his arms.

Woodward sat behind the prosecutor with his hands clasped and his head down.

The judge quickly scolded Harbach, telling the attorney to “calm down.” Cannon questioned why there was no evidence gathered of what happened in the 2022 conversation, saying, “Why do those comments [about Woodward] have to be made?”

RELATED ARTICLEFederal judge found ‘strong evidence’ of crimes before Trump was charged in classified documents case

“That is not true, and I didn’t say that,” Harbach shouted back. The prosecutor said that that there was no recording of the conversation between Bratt and Woodward, but that Smith’s team has preserved any record they have of the meeting.

Woodward shot back up to the lectern, saying that “I’m here” and offering to testify under oath to what he remembered of the meeting.

Nauta’s request to dismiss the case was the first of two issues before Cannon on Wednesday. An afternoon hearing will center on co-defendants’ argument the indictment suffers technical flaws requiring its dismissal.

Trump had obtained permission from the judge to skip Wednesday’s proceedings.

When postponing the trial, Cannon pointed to the mountain of unresolved pretrial issues for not putting a new date on the calendar. Wednesday kicks off a stretch of hearings scheduled through late July that will get the case through some – but not all – of the pretrial issues.

Cannon’s slow pace in the case has attracted criticisms from outside legal experts, who have accused the Trump-appointed judge of playing into delay tactics by the GOP’s presumptive White House nominee. Unless Cannon picks up her momentum considerably, it appears unlikely the charges will go before a jury before the 2024 election. If Trump wins the White House, it is expected he will make the charges against him go away.

Newly unsealed filings give more details about the investigation

Until recent days, several major motions from Trump attacking the prosecution were not even publicly docketed. The proceedings have become mired in disputes over what should be redacted in public filings.

On Tuesday, hundreds of pages of previously sealed court filings were posted publicly as part of efforts by the former president to have the charges against him thrown out. Those filings included a previously sealed March 2023 ruling by a federal judge in Washington, DC, finding there was “sufficient” evidence that Trump committed crimes, allowing investigators to obtain information from his former lawyer that would normally be protected by attorney-client privilege.

Trump is seeking to throw out that evidence, as well as the evidence obtained in the FBI’s search of Mar-a-Lago in August 2022, from which investigators obtained many of the documents underlying several of the charges against Trump.

Those motions are not scheduled for argument on Wednesday, and Cannon has not yet set a hearing on them.

In her order Sunday allowing for the filings to be made public, Cannon took a shot at prosecutors – one of several swipes she’s made at Smith’s office. She expressed “concern” the special counsel’s office had sought redactions of information in the newly unsealed filings after previously giving its OK for that information to be published in full in earlier court filings.

“The Court is disappointed in these developments. The sealing and redaction rules should be applied consistently and fairly upon a sufficient factual and legal showing,” Cannon wrote. “And parties should not make requests that undermine any prior representations or positions except upon full disclosure to the Court and appropriate briefing.”

 

Posted
15 minutes ago, Hermanator said:

Y'all are torturing yourselves hoping the courts will save democracy. The courts were never meant to save democracy. 

Only Americans can save themselves in November. There is no other avenue. I'll check in on this trial from time to time but don't really worry much about these anymore. Battle lines have been drawn and I'm ready to vote against all MAGA and that's all any of us can do. 

Correct.

1) It's up to us, "we the people."

2) We've demonstrated that we're not up to the task.  We the people are a bucket of wet shit.

So...

main-qimg-a14b7a41cda47d2c02d2dfb925f689

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Posted

1) It's up to us, "we the people."
2) We've demonstrated that we're not up to the task.  We the people are a bucket of wet shit.


Hey Eeyore, we the people caused this dumb fuck to lose the popular vote by 6 million votes last time.
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Posted
Just now, tbone_ said:

 


Hey Eeyore, we the people caused this dumb fuck to lose the popular vote by 6 million votes last time.

 

And the margin looks worse for us this time around.

As the facts about him are even fucking WORSE.  The WORSE he is, the more cemented his support is....and he even gains fucking support.  Or, we blame Biden for things that he didn't do (like repeal Roe).  Stop counting on the American people to save ourselves.  We are not up to the task.

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Posted
1 hour ago, tbone_ said:

 


Hey Eeyore, we the people caused this dumb fuck to lose the popular vote by 6 million votes last time.

 

 

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

And the margin looks worse for us this time around.

As the facts about him are even fucking WORSE.  The WORSE he is, the more cemented his support is....and he even gains fucking support.  Or, we blame Biden for things that he didn't do (like repeal Roe).  Stop counting on the American people to save ourselves.  We are not up to the task.

Didn't someone on this site do the math before the 2020 election to determine that Biden would need to win by at least 5 million votes to get elected because of Electoral College fuckery? Since then, we've reapportioned EC votes, so I don't know if that goes in his favor or against him.

Posted
2 hours ago, Hermanator said:

Battle lines have been drawn and I'm ready to vote against all MAGA and that's all any of us can do. 

It may come down to more than that if maga gets their way.  

083b5894-225d-4cc8-92f5-daf66bfc432d_tex

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Posted
2 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

Cannon needs to be replaced yesterday.

That ship sailed a long time ago.  I remember when it was announced this case was in her court plenty of people were skeptical that it would ever see the light of day.  But lots of legal experts said nothing to worry about.

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Posted
15 hours ago, bolverk said:

 

Didn't someone on this site do the math before the 2020 election to determine that Biden would need to win by at least 5 million votes to get elected because of Electoral College fuckery? Since then, we've reapportioned EC votes, so I don't know if that goes in his favor or against him.

States that voted Trump +3 (Texas +2, Montana/NC +1, FL +1, WV/Ohio -1)
States that voted Biden -3 (Colorado/Oregon +1, CA/MI/IL/PA/NY -1)

So it helps very slightly for Trump

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Posted
51 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Man it's crazy to see the slow motion realization by some that aileen is who we thought she was a fucking year or more ago. She is 100% in the bag for trump and is an example of the class of trump judges that will bend the law on its head to protect him. 

Our judicial system has been irreparably warped by trumpco and a weird collective urge to insist that everything is fine. White knuckling your belief in collective good faith while hurtling towards a brick wall of authoritarianism and inequity justice. 

There were a number of us who were doom-and-gloom when we realized Cannon was going to be the presiding judge. We were assured by countless Surly lawdogs that all was well, Kevin Bacon/Animal House style. Looking more and more like the doom-and-gloomers will be proven right in this instance. This is fuckery of the highest order.

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Posted
57 minutes ago, C-Man said:

There were a number of us who were doom-and-gloom when we realized Cannon was going to be the presiding judge. We were assured by countless Surly lawdogs that all was well, Kevin Bacon/Animal House style. Looking more and more like the doom-and-gloomers will be proven right in this instance. This is fuckery of the highest order.

Gator will be here any minute now to tell us we're wrong and overreacting.  The system is working as designed... blah blah blah.

Posted
4 minutes ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Gator will be here any minute now to tell us we're wrong and overreacting.  The system is working as designed... blah blah blah.

As is the plane currently headed toward the mountain.



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