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Why were you a Never Trumper in 2015-16?

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SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861

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The presidency is a train wreck, and a lot of people saw "it" coming from the get go.  But "it" seems to differ from person to person.

Thinking back to your opinions then, what was it that you saw coming from the beginning?  What has surprised you?

 

Me: 

I anticipated the incompetence.  I saw a guy that had no basic knowledge of government and was clearly winging it as he went.  I knew he definitely didn't have any complex thoughts on government or cared about any wonky bit of minutia.  I remember (rhetorically) asking some Trump supporter I knew what he thought Trump's opinions were about farm subsidies in times of high produce, as a way to demonstrate that there are a million things that a politician would have to consider instead of the stupid headline grabbing stuff, and that you can't just get up there and wing it.  

I anticipated the grift.  I thought from the beginning this was just a money making scheme for this guy.  He'd literally never shown any sort of service to others or country in his life.  Everything he has done has been in pursuit of fame and fortune.  Why in the world would anyone think we could elect this guy and he'd suddenly devote himself to helping anything other than himself?

____

I didn't see the racism.  'The Wall' I knew was an appeal to racism but I was somehow able to silo that from him generally. I didn't believe the 'bad hombre' stuff was a dog whistle and I thought people were generally blowing this out of proportion.  Now it is the thing he goes to the well for all the time.

I didn't see the criminality coming.  I thought he was he was a bit of a cheat, but thought it was standard-fare sort of cheating.  My ears perked up when he said he thinks we should be better friends with Russia.  I remember thinking that was the oddest thing.  He doesn't have a single thought about any policy thing.  Why in the world does he want to buck the tide on the single thing Rs have been consistent about since WWII?  He's trying to get Reagan worshipers to vote for this?  It didn't occur to me that it was because he had money making ties there.  I actually thought it was because he wanted to combat the idea that he was a total pretender so he had to have an opinion on *something* and basically drew it out of the hat.  I didn't understand Manafort, the Moscow hotel, Wikileaks, and all that.

I didn't see the low-IQ.  I assumed he was your standard issue college grad.  Probably smarter than me, but not markedly so.  I read his tweets and get to see inside his brain.  It's not just the lack of ability to spell, but the lack of even holding a thought through 280 characters.  It is bizarre.  My little undergrad department of engineering had about 40 grads in my class, so I knew them all pretty well.  If I think back to that group of people, I'd put him in the bottom half, and probably pretty low in that bottom half.

I didn't see the willingness to attack the rest of the government.  The "drain the swamp" stuff seemed like dumb sloganeering.  I didn't think he'd actually come out and act like the CIA just makes stuff up.  That he'd say the Fed was misbehaving.  That Justice wasn't attacking his political enemies enough.  

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TornACL

TornACL 7666

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Politics aside, he's always been a piece of human excrement. He's a cartoon character version of a NYC businessman who was best known for adultery, bankruptcy, reality television, and a distinct lack of class. 

The fact that he's a racist protectionist with a combination of either ill conceived or extinct political opinions is just icing on the cake. 

 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23355

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6 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

Not one thing has surprised me. The grifting, incompetence and racism has been on full display for decades. He’s the same piece of shit I listened to on Stern and thought was a joke when I was 15. 

I didn’t expect the Russian conspiracy to be real. It was just so absurd, and that’s probably why it worked.  Our lack of imagination. 

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32660

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He is a conman, a crook, a liar, a narcissist, a moron, and is a lifelong member of the corruption of the elites in this country. He has never stood for anything but self-aggrandizement and happily contributed to politicians of both sides his entire life merely to curry favor and potential kickbacks later. He managed to drive a casino bankrupt and has made a career out of being a business failure.

You could not design a worse Presidential candidate in a lab. At least our standard corrupt politicians are usually intelligent.

To get Donald Trump you take the most corrupt and self-serving politician in the country and take away any intelligence.

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Chuckie Finster

Chuckie Finster 22571

Posted
Posted (edited)

Trump's emergence caused such a visceral reaction inside of me that it resulted in me caring about politics for the first time.  Go look on Shaggy and you won't find a single post from me in the Cloak Room before early 2016.  He has sparked an intense hatred of a human being that is personally unprecedented.

I thought he would be more of a figure-head, though, and the Republican party would quietly do their job while the Crazy Uncle yelled on Twitter.  I didn't anticipate the entire party changing their platform to match Dotard's insane thoughts.

Edited by Chuckie Finster
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NameAlreadyInUse

NameAlreadyInUse 5102

Posted
Posted (edited)

I never even watched the Apprentice because he was on it, because I'd already figured out he was a buffoon from listening to him over the years on Howard Stern.  I get plenty of buffoonery already without him being on the menu.  Also, buffoons shouldn't be POTUS.  Also, he bankrupted a casino.  How the fuck does a successful person in business manage to do that?  It was pretty clear he wasn't nearly the businessman he made himself out to be.  Plus, I don't vote R ever.

The one thing this idiot did that was surprising was get me to the polls to vote D.  Up until this election I didn't vote D ever either.

Edited by NameAlreadyInUse
word choices, how do they work?
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SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861

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2 minutes ago, seven said:

I am more interested in how anyone was tricked by this guy. How did a single person in this country think he isn't a lying crook or deeply in over his head? 

 I don’t think tricked is the right word. I think a lot of people that voted for him are getting exactly what they thought they voted for. 

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NameAlreadyInUse

NameAlreadyInUse 5102

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Yeah, me too.  I mean, I get that a lot of people hated Hillary.  She's been dragged through the mud since her husband was president, and she didn't have the personal charisma to overcome such a sustained smear campaign. By the way, it doesn't matter if she was smeared with things that were true or lies or some of both, she simply couldn't survive such a sustained attack.  So there was a sizable block of the country that were never going to vote for Hillary because if even some of the smears were true, she's a truly terrible human being.  Another block wasn't going to vote anything but R because of abortion and gays, regardless of what they thought of Hillary.  But then there is the block that listened to that douchebag and thought "This guy is smart and is looking out for me, Imma vote for him!"  Those are the people that I'd like to understand.  I'd like to think its something more than dumbassery and racism. But I have seen very little evidence to lead me to another conclusion.

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Dbeasy

Dbeasy 14931

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Before Trump started campaigning, I and many others, liked the idea of an outsider businessman becoming president. I had never paid much attention to him so I didn’t know at the beginning of his campaign that he was just a giant blowhard liar.

However, early in the campaign it became crystal clear he was an incompetent liar and idiot. Was easy to be anti-Trump from that point forward. Of the many people I know that voted for him, they held to that first belief that they were going to get an outsider businessman. They got fooled.

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Judge Roybeanbag

Judge Roybeanbag 11772

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Before Trump started campaigning, I and many others, liked the idea of an outsider businessman becoming president. I had never paid much attention to him so I didn’t know at the beginning of his campaign that he was just a giant blowhard liar.

However, early in the campaign it became crystal clear he was an incompetent liar and idiot. Was easy to be anti-Trump from that point forward. Of the many people I know that voted for him, they held to that first belief that they were going to get an outsider businessman. They got fooled.

I was sort of like this too.  Never paid any attention to him, never watched any of his shows.  I voted in a Republican primary for the first time, for Kasich, because I suspected Hillary might lose, and he was my best choice. 

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SmokeyTheBear

SmokeyTheBear 5562

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I wish I could find my comment from shaggy on this very thing. But generally speaking: Everything, EVERYTHING, he has done his whole life has been focused on enriching himself and only himself. He is every bit the narcissist I feared and this type of person will not, does not, and can not be an effective President. 

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32290

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I thought the GOP and to a lesser extent Reince Priebus would rein him in, temper him and make him more "presidential", let alone have more legislative accomplishments than they have.  To be nearly two years in, and having lost the House, and all they have to show is a tax cut, 2 Supreme Court seats and nothing more has to be a failure.  Hell, they campaigned since 2010 on getting rid of Obamacare, and when it came time to do it, not only couldn't they do it right the first time, they couldn't get it done the second time at all.  

 I never suspected the GOP and those societal groups (organized religion) as a whole would just capitulate to whatever he did and said in complete and total opposition to everything they ever stood for, and throw away forever any opportunity to be taken seriously with criticism they may have with future Democratic administrations.  

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Post Oak

Post Oak 20174

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Posted

He's a racist.

He's a con man

He's a bad businessman

He made fun of a reporter with a disability

He made fun of a gold star family

He criticized a POW

He bragged about sexually assaulting women

He's never taken responsibility for anything in his entire life

He bragged that his building was the tallest in NYC after 9/11

He was a birther

He courted David Duke and Alex Jones

”russia if you're listening"

He offended pretty much all of my sensibilities.  

The people who voted for him aren't good Americans and worse they're terrible people.

Fuck him. I hope he does in jail.

 

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JimmyHoffa

JimmyHoffa 1188

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1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

He is a conman, a crook, a liar, a narcissist, a moron, and is a lifelong member of the corruption of the elites in this country. He has never stood for anything but self-aggrandizement and happily contributed to politicians of both sides his entire life merely to curry favor and potential kickbacks later. He managed to drive a casino bankrupt and has made a career out of being a business failure.

You could not design a worse Presidential candidate in a lab. At least our standard corrupt politicians are usually intelligent.

To get Donald Trump you take the most corrupt and self-serving politician in the country and take away any intelligence.

 

Agree 100%. That said he has sold his bullshit for years and years and PLENTY of smart people that knew better allowed him to do it for a long time because he was so famous in NYC. He has always been that loud, drunk, uncle at family gatherings that people hated behind his back but would kiss the ring to his face because of his fame.

He also won the election in large part to the biggest con that has ever been seen in politics. The media ate it up and he was getting free PR. Throw in his opponent and it was the perfect storm. 

A lot of blame to go around but I still to this day don't think he ever really wanted to be president but he just was in too deep to drop out of the race as it would have hurt his "Brand" and that is really all he has ever cared about. 

The problem- he was too stupid to realize if he won the election those same people that used to kiss his ring at all the "it" parties in NYC wouldn't turn the other cheek just like the rest of the country that finally started calling out his bullshit but by that time it was too late. 

 

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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Posted

For years I didn't know much about him beyond real estate and celebrity status and never followed Apprentice.  It wasn't until summer of '16 when the election campaign was in full swing that I actually watched and listened to him.  It was immediately obvious that there was no substance to what he was saying.  He did not convey even a basic understanding of ordinary issues.  It was mostly all demagoguery.  I remember sitting on the lawn at an outdoor concert that summer talking with friends convinced the guy is an unmistakeable raging pathologic narcissist.  No way I could ever support that guy.  I don't remember exactly when I realized it, but it was right around that time when his campaign presence was covered regularly.

The fake news rants and attacking the press in the late summer/early fall was also a clear sign that he had to avoid any meaningful conversation about real issues.  It was all a ruse as an avoidance tactic to hide his ignorance of how basic civil government works.  Today it's a still a ruse used to avoid any meaningful conversation about his conspiratorial criminality.

My recollection is that Trump/Russia really hit my radar in December '16.

My initial awareness of his mob ties and money laundering history didn't start to come about until the winter of '16/'17.

 

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Biff Tannen

Biff Tannen 45439

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4 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

For years I didn't know much about him beyond real estate and celebrity status and never followed Apprentice.  It wasn't until summer of '16 when the election campaign was in full swing that I actually watched and listened to him.  It was immediately obvious that there was no substance to what he was saying.  He did not convey even a basic understanding of ordinary issues.  It was mostly all demagoguery.  I remember sitting on the lawn at an outdoor concert that summer talking with friends convinced the guy is an unmistakeable raging pathologic narcissist.  No way I could ever support that guy.  I don't remember exactly when I realized it, but it was right around that time when his campaign presence was covered regularly.

The fake news rants and attacking the press in the late summer/early fall was also a clear sign that he had to avoid any meaningful conversation about real issues.  It was all a ruse as an avoidance tactic to hide his ignorance of how basic civil government works.  Today it's a still a ruse used to avoid any meaningful conversation about his conspiratorial criminality.

My recollection is that Trump/Russia really hit my radar in December '16.

My initial awareness of his mob ties and money laundering history didn't start to come about until the winter of '16/'17.

 

Pretty much my exact situation.  I always knew he was some buffoon on the periphery, but my brain never accepted that it could actually happen until it had actually happened.  Then I realize, holy shit, we have to stop this.  

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Mo Horn

Mo Horn 8779

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57 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

I am more convinced every day there are a pretty small number of people he could beat in an election.

Heard this quote on a news station tonight... The Democrats nominated the only bi-ped on the planet that Trump could beat. Funny and true. 

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Nivek

Nivek 16771

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Posted
Heard this quote on a news station tonight... The Democrats nominated the only bi-ped on the planet that Trump could beat. Funny and true. 

No. He won cause he appealed to morons. He is charismatic in a way, even if he is horrible. It is this feature that has allowed him to be such a successful con artist.

Hillary was fine, qualified, but uninspiring. We already had a stable adult in office with Obama. Who needs more of that boring shit. Do you know how hard the Tahoe’s worked to be offended by 20 year old thesis excerpts and flag pins, and suit color and coffee salutes? The left (center, and center right)have it so easy with finding shit about the gop to hate.
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bolverk

bolverk 29261

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Posted
2 hours ago, longhorndude said:

 


This. He’s always been just a shitty NY conman to me.

 

Same. The first notion of him actually being president was introduced to my consciousness by a Simpsons episode several years ago. From that moment, just the idea of him occupying the Oval Office was a joke. I've never watched a single episode of the Apprentice because it seemed like a bunch of celebrity-worshipping reality teevee flim-flam ironically playing off his supposed business acumen.

I only started to take the LOSER somewhat seriously when he pulled the "birth certificate" con and was incredulous about how anyone with two brain cells could take any of that seriously. But when he announced his candidacy after gliding down that shitty escalator, I put him back into the hustler category only trying to make a few bucks off his *wink wink, nudge nudge* new found political wokeness to start up a new con like Trump teevee. Never, in a thousand years, I thought at that time would the collective consciousness of America allow such an obvious piece of shit to lead us.

Boy, was I ever wrong.

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Michael Knight

Michael Knight 12852

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Posted
1 hour ago, Biff Tannen said:

I think my exact wording around October 2016 was, "When you are given the choice between a bad candidate and the craziest person in the room, you don't fucking choose the craziest person in the room!"  Thanks electoral college.  And the Rust Belt.  Fuck you all.

My exact words were Trump winning the nomination signaled the beginning of the end of the American republic, and then he won

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bolverk

bolverk 29261

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Posted
1 hour ago, Mo Horn said:

Heard this quote on a news station tonight... The Democrats nominated the only bi-ped on the planet that Trump could beat. Funny and true. 

No, it's tragic and false.

The GOP put up 16 other candidates who also lost to him in its primaries. So apparently, there are many other bipeds that "Joe the Plummer" would've rejected in favor of this orange pile of shit staining our democracy.

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TexArcher

TexArcher 37414

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4 hours ago, seven said:

I am more interested in how anyone was tricked by this guy. How did a single person in this country think he isn't a lying crook or deeply in over his head? 

I figure there are about 50 million people who are too stupid to see Trump for what he is and another 50 million who see exactly what he is and don't care as long as he lowers their taxes.  

I wonder if America will ever again be the world's leading super power.  And I think it's probably better for humanity if we aren't.

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Post Oak

Post Oak 20174

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Posted
2 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

I think my exact wording around October 2016 was, "When you are given the choice between a bad candidate and the craziest person in the room, you don't fucking choose the craziest person in the room!"  Thanks electoral college.  And the Rust Belt.  Fuck you all.

Fuck you soybean farmers and auto workers.  You bought the con and now you played yourself.  

Enjoy winter fucksticks

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Kyle

Kyle 207

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Posted

Even as a kid, when I saw him on TV destroying my beloved USFL I thought something like: "that is an arrogant a-hole. I don't like him." Nothing has led me to change my mind.

After the election, I had some hope the office might humble him and turn him into an adult ... oops.

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Helobious

Helobious 9465

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Posted

I'd still bet the house on him getting re-elected in 2020. It'll be different from 2016 because he will lose the popular vote by a wider margin and win the electoral college by a very small margin, but it'll still happen. (FTR I think he sucks, but you'd have to be an idiot to think he won't win again)

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18487

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5 minutes ago, Helobious said:

I'd still bet the house on him getting re-elected in 2020. It'll be different from 2016 because he will lose the popular vote by a wider margin and win the electoral college by a very small margin, but it'll still happen. (FTR I think he sucks, but you'd have to be an idiot to think he won't win again)

He's not going to win. He probably won't even run.

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RPM

RPM 26167

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Posted
1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Never, in a thousand years, I thought at that time would the collective consciousness of America allow such an obvious piece of shit to lead us.

Boy, was I ever wrong.

I always knew reality TV was going to be the downfall of America. I just didn't know it was going to be this quick.

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